Help with Peerless PF-140, Ignition issues, Control Board swap

It looks (to me) like tech #1 did a thorough cleaning down into the "grooves" This picture is of the bottom of the chamber (phone in the chamber facing down)

and here is a zoom in:

I ran a piece of sheet styrene I had in some of the grooves and I didn't seem to hit or dislodge anything. I'll vac and wipe down the chamber and vac the burner anyhow. Tech I trust said just a damp (water) microfiber

The swirl plate looks ok to me. I'll take a closer look. I guess I am looking for a deformation or, say tear, or something?

So, here is where I am at (to the best of my ability) - controls and igniter/flame sensor are ok, high temp sensor ok, chamber seems ok, 120vac seen at the gas valve, swirl plate looks ok (but I'll look closer).

That leaves the gas valve and that funky pressure on the boiler side of the valve.

Tomorrow the "tech I trust" will be coming by to start to design the next system and I am sure he will take a look. I'll ask him to retest the pressure and I think he will want to do a combustion analysis.

and we go from there. That first shower in our own shower is going to be glorious once up and running 😍🤞

@yellowdog mentioned the inducer motor? It's only a thou, I'll take 2…

https://www.partstoyourdoor.com/blower-pf-140-54191

For about 5-8 major parts you can get a new boiler. Maybe the business to be in is buying boilers and parting them out?

supertech, I heard ya, not ignoring ya, as I mentioned previously the first 2 techs did not do a CA, and the "tech I trust" is coming tomorrow. He asked if one was done, but I am not sure he will do one, we will see. He's coming to start the design of the new system. He's not doing repairs because of his family situation, but he might, we will see. Let's not forget I have called other techs only to get blown off. I can call more, I just love tossing around benji's for no good reason, explaining everything to a new person right from the beginning, only to have them not show, or not come back (sorry, I am pretty beaten down, my faith in capitalism is shaken).

109 - I did not skip past that post, I saw it, and I commented that I would probably take this to the curb before a shipment from moser came :). I tried sliding the board out and the connector seemed secured into that black case somehow, I decided not to break it. Besides, the valve clicks and I see a real good strong blue flame (but only for 2-3 seconds). I could check the DC at the 5 pin connector, but there is no scheme, etc that tells me what I should look for. I even tried finding the gas valve on the net. I suppose I could just probe it to find out what it is, but what is it supposed to be?

Bob, good spot, I can take it out tomorrow, it was an easy removal. But, how critical is it? It's not a jet turbine, right? Asking because I don't know. Should I just look for instability, like if I flex it if the crack opens or not?

what did you guys thing of the Combustion chamber?

I do want to get this running, the dream of a hot shower in my own home is a glorious one, but I have to be a realist. It's a 7 year old boiler that hasn't been maintained, and has, what 5 years left? it isn't supported in my area, the parts are a fortune, and hard to get. My indirect tank is 25 years old as well. I think throwing a thou a part at it is nuts. Try a gas valve? Maybe? Only nine hundred something….I'm not much of a gambler.

I want to go back to cast iron, you guys think I'm nuts? My only concern is I have in floor radiant and baseboard.

Jim

Hi Everyone, thanks for your comments, a lot to digest, I'll address everything, easy stuff first

@EBEBRATT-Ed - your "rant" is exactly where my head is at. My dad built the family house in '61, and installed a first oil boiler, and then converted to NG. I remember my mom replacing the original boiler with a Weil McClain in the late 90's. When I bought my home in '91, it had a Weil McLain, and I replaced it with a Buderus in 2016. We moved in 2024. With the WM I think I replaced couplings, then a pump when I found why the couplings were failing, air bleeds, a motor of the honeywell zone valves, pressure regultors, got everything local, and was never down for more than a day.

But I am still going to try to save this, and I will let the tech I trust help steer me properly for the new system

@SuperTech - Yea, but you don't know what the tech is going to be like when you meet him, and if you let him in the door, it's going to cost you and hour. One thing is stuck in my head, if this only stays lit for 2-3 seconds, is that enough combustion to analyze?

@109A_5 - I can't control where the test port was drilled, it came with the house 😉. Noted.

Also, 109, and the rest of you. I'll delve into the swirl plate more today, @pedmec , I hope that you are right, I'll pay a hundred easy for heat and hot water, in fact I'll pay…..

I zoomed in on the photo:

As I mentioned the "tech I trust" I have known for quite a while and he is big time into hydronics, AC, etc, and being an engineer, I appreciate when he talks the science of what and why. I may not understand exactly what he is saying in terms of the specifics as it relates to this, but I know it's not BS because I understand enough of the science to recognize BS. I'll see him today. I asked if he could perform gas valve measurements and a combustion analysis, but the main reason he is coming is for the new design.

I will mention the swirl plate to him, and we may take it out. If he doesn't, I will and get back to you, but I am betting he'll perk up when I show him. Edit - just spoke with him via text, he said "that'll do it". We are checking to see if we can get one locally (ERB supply in Buffalo). I don't mind this part, even if it's not the fix, it's broke and needs replacing.

I had it in my hands and it didn't feel like PP (I spent some time in plastic molding industry). It had more of a nylon look. PP is recycle number 5 ans the triangle is empty (see pic)

I'll look through those links now, thanks. The ones that go multiple pages (like this one) scare me. Maybe some day this thread will help/scare someone else!

Jim

EDir - Disregard, they found one, going out to get it

so, my local supplier is out of stock, Supply house backordered until Feb/March, and parts to your door not shipping until 1/5. They said call for a heat emergency, I will after my tech comes.

I am wondering about @109A_5 's idea of epoxy (as temp fix). I have all kinds of epoxy, one being penetrating (its very thin, for stabilizing rotted wood). I am wondering about masking one side, use the penetrating to fill the crack void.

But, what kind of heat and other stressors would it be exposed to? Also, is there a flammability concern in this area?

Jim

@EODagon - thanks, I can check vs the manual, but there is bound to be some variance. Can you tell me what specifically to look for? Or, can I take a few more pictures to help you all see what I have? Inside and outside?

That is something I can do before my tech comes back on friday

First a little info, then answers to your questions/comments. My tech sent me a text with his notes to himself. Note that 1-4 are for the current system, 5-6 are for the next system

Tech wrote:

Notes for myself.

1. Supply LP pressure around 13w/c static. 9.2 w/c firing

2. Combustion access not 12 inches from the boiler, but does not run long enough to stabilize a good combustion reading. When it does, throttle adjustment swings all over . Even in high fire test. Had manometer on also to watch throttle adjustment. Swings from 7wc to 11, flames out when lowering throttle below 5 and won't lite at that inlet pressure. ( This should be zero to a negative reading)

3. One time was able to get the CO down to 14, won't run long enough to see particulate measurements. Once seen it at 2000 while CO was at 22. (12 is target)

4. Condensate seems to be draining, although I don't like the venting materials used, not do I like the horizontal pipe (Missing pitch)

5. Non boiler issues, the system is not plumbed correctly with many issues. Pumps to close, oversized pumps, no tempering valves in radiant zones. Expansion tank is not piped to a purging area/ air eliminator.

6. no isolation, flow checks, bleeders. Boiler water is black (Probably from boiler before/ no flush)7. Simplify zone circuits to a pump relay, add adjustable flow balance manifolds to radiant) 8. Radiant. Doubt any drawings/layouts / insulation factors were performed. Do not know loop sizes, circuits has 2 with a mystery to bathroom at the moment.

My comments:

a) I'll put a level on the horizontal section, the manual allows for horizontal with a certain pitch. The manual also says that schedule 40 is ok.

b) Where the boiler lit for 2 seconds before (not ran), it now runs for 20 seconds. The control ramps up to 100% (because water is at room temp) and the fire in the spyglass goes from blue to a white. It's obvious that the swirl plate was broken, and it's obvious that replacing it fixed a portion of the issue

c) @109A_5 - Yes, we went through section 1 of the AO2 flame failure. Disconnecting did not allow it to stay lit, so - 1c) I had just had the burner out, and measured the gap between the igniter and flame sensors to the burner and both were in spec. Also, it was clean, no metal fibers, and, the flame sensor is brand new.

The burner mesh was cleaned (shop vac'ed) by me, and it looked clean, but what do I know? There was no visable build up and the holes looked open. Plus, Tech #1 must have cleaned it when he cleaned the chamber.

d) @EBEBRATT-Ed - as my kids would say "true that". I emailed with the previous homeowner (2018-2024) to ask who he used the service the boiler and he said it was only once and they did one of those "checkups" from a random tech service. The guy was rude to his wife, she gave it to him, and they were never asked back. My point being the boiler was replaced to sell the house to them, and it looks like it was never serviced in that 8 years. The water was quite dark/black, so I am wondering what type of boiler was in there before, and if the lines were properly flushed. There is a lot of copper, and some pex (including in floor)

So, to your point, something not run and maintained properly can start to fail in one way, which can trigger a fail in something else, and so on, until something catastrophic happens

Remember, I think this was giving flame failure lockouts for years before me. They had a fix kit. The owner said "it was a fault in their design". Knowing what I know now, something was wrong, perhaps as early as the install.

e) @Ironman - I'll take a look at the vent path you describe. I'll need to figure out the exhaust travel past combustion, as I don't know it, I am sure I can find it on the web.

Enjoy your holiday. My wife asked if I had any resolutions, I said "fix or replace the boiler"

Jim