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New Crown Steam Boiler

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coolfx35
coolfx35 Member Posts: 77
edited November 2018 in Strictly Steam
So I have my Steam Boiler installed yesterday (Crown Steam Boiler with 172k BTU), replacing my old Burnham boiler. (170k BTU)

https://www.ambientfloorheat.com/products/crown-boiler-bsi-series-bermuda-model-bsi172-gas-steam-boiler

The installation went fine, took a day, 2-3 people, but last night when the tech left, i saw my Sight Glass was doing something really weird, 1st, it's dirty, 2nd, it fluctuates up and down, I recorded a video and uploaded it to youtube. Please let me know what you think the issue is.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mVVTKy8nsLA

Last night, there were some pipe banging as well. I called back the tech, and he said he is coming tomorrow to take a look, maybe the boiler is dirty and needs some cleaning. It also stops and restarts every few minutes. is that normal? also making noises as if the low water cutoff kicks in and stop the boiler from running, then restarts when water came back, he said it's normal with new boiler now doing intermittent check (green light). I am concerned. This guy seems knowledgeable with steam, he said he did a lot of steam boilers and water heat boilers, and he did all my AC and water heater without issues.

I asked him if it's dangerous to use the heat today, he said no. but i turned it off anyway. It's kind of cold today. So I am using electric heat.

Any comments would be greatly appreciated.

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Comments

  • ImYoungxD
    ImYoungxD Member Posts: 130
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    New boilers need to be skimmed for hours until all/most of the oil is gone from the boiler
  • coolfx35
    coolfx35 Member Posts: 77
    edited November 2018
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    he definitely didn't do that. I will make sure he does that tomorrow, but do you think it's dangerous to use the heat today? I don't want to crack the boiler if there's no water left.
  • KC_Jones
    KC_Jones Member Posts: 5,739
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    Yes skimming, this is standard procedure and they should have said it upfront and in response to you.

    I hate to ask, did you call and get @EzzyT to do the work?

    Also how was the new one sized?
    2014 Weil Mclain EG-40
    EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Boiler Control
    Boiler pictures updated 2/21/15
  • JUGHNE
    JUGHNE Member Posts: 11,062
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    The grey box on the upper right....clear cover.....what are the numbers he set things at.
    Just curious as he does a lot of steam.
    This will not affect your problem for the moment.
    Boiler needs skimmed.
    Skimming might be mentioned in the book.

    How about more pictures of the piping around the boiler?
    Back up for the full view.
  • ImYoungxD
    ImYoungxD Member Posts: 130
    edited November 2018
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    I would keep the heat off. The surge seems to be extreme and could be emptying the boiler although the LWCO is working. You'll be pushing the oily water to your pipes and rads which can cause radiator vents to blow out the dirty water. Happened to me once. Not fun to clean dirty oily water

    Don't let the pipes freeze though. Send us more pictures of the set up and the pros can let you know how to skim it yourself since it has to be done frequently.
  • Ironman
    Ironman Member Posts: 7,376
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    The "CycleGard" LWCO will stop the burner every 10 minutes to check the water level and allow foaming to settle. It's a piece of junk. Once the boiler is properly cleaned and skimmed, have your guy instal a "SafeGard" instead. Even if you have to pay extra for it. It won't stop the burner unless the boiler is actually low on water.
    Bob Boan
    You can choose to do what you want, but you cannot choose the consequences.
    KC_JonesSTEVEusaPAkcopp
  • KC_Jones
    KC_Jones Member Posts: 5,739
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    They are referred around here as psychoguard.
    2014 Weil Mclain EG-40
    EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Boiler Control
    Boiler pictures updated 2/21/15
    STEVEusaPAIronmanethicalpaul
  • coolfx35
    coolfx35 Member Posts: 77
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  • KC_Jones
    KC_Jones Member Posts: 5,739
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    Well they piped it wrong, copper is a no no, and the equalizer should have been off the end of the header where they plugged it.

    Don't pay in full until they make it right. There is a picture right in the manual showing how it's to be done.

    That definitely answers my question about calling @EzzyT
    2014 Weil Mclain EG-40
    EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Boiler Control
    Boiler pictures updated 2/21/15
    1Matthiaskcopp
  • KC_Jones
    KC_Jones Member Posts: 5,739
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    Just noticed the relief valve isn't installed correctly either, should be vertical.
    2014 Weil Mclain EG-40
    EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Boiler Control
    Boiler pictures updated 2/21/15
  • coolfx35
    coolfx35 Member Posts: 77
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    relief valve is vertical...
  • KC_Jones
    KC_Jones Member Posts: 5,739
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    did you change it since this picture was taken?

    2014 Weil Mclain EG-40
    EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Boiler Control
    Boiler pictures updated 2/21/15
  • neilc
    neilc Member Posts: 2,703
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    coolfx35 said:

    relief valve is vertical...

    no, no it's not,
    the little stem on top, operated by that lever, needs to be up and down(vertical), not left and right(horizontal),
    known to beat dead horses
  • coolfx35
    coolfx35 Member Posts: 77
    edited November 2018
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    what will happen if it's not vertical?
  • JUGHNE
    JUGHNE Member Posts: 11,062
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    You said he was coming back tomorrow?
    You need to have the installation book in hand. It comes with the boiler. Might still be in the plastic bag lying around somewhere.
    You can download the book for that model. (50-60 pages or so).
    It will show piping diagrams and minimum sizes for that size.
    It may or may not state no copper piping for steam above the water line. However it may discourage that practice.

    Your old boiler was piped better than this and how long did it last?
    Hopefully you did not pay in full.
  • neilc
    neilc Member Posts: 2,703
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    coolfx35 said:

    what will happen if it's not vertical?

    it's a code violation,
    junk builds up at the valve and seat, and at the stem,
    either sealing it shut which is dangerous / bad,
    or that same junk fouls the seat and valve when you test it annually / monthly, and that's a bad day also.
    and it's a code violation
    known to beat dead horses
  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 15,713
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    Ezzt installed that?!? There's no way that's his work. It looks like a bunch of kids were playing.
    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
    KC_Jones1MatthiasCanucker
  • Ironman
    Ironman Member Posts: 7,376
    edited November 2018
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    It's piped wrong. The equalizer MUST come off of the end of the header. No copper above the water line.



    Also, both riser tappings should be utilized to prevent pulling water up, not just one.

    Here's the manufacturer's diagram:



    Bob Boan
    You can choose to do what you want, but you cannot choose the consequences.
    1Matthias
  • SlamDunk
    SlamDunk Member Posts: 1,584
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    I was actually going to say I was impressed with how quick you got a new boiler at the start of heating season.

    Get these things corrected and either skim the boiler yourself or have them do it, It takes a long time, and I'll bet you'll have both a quiet boiler and a steady water line.
  • ethicalpaul
    ethicalpaul Member Posts: 5,704
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    Why are they always messed up? I’m far from a plumber but the diagram is so clear! I know the job site can make things difficult but damn!!
    NJ Steam Homeowner. See my sight glass boiler videos: https://bit.ly/3sZW1el
  • coolfx35
    coolfx35 Member Posts: 77
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    how do I skim the boiler? instructions will be greatly appreciated.
  • JUGHNE
    JUGHNE Member Posts: 11,062
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    You need a port above the water line. It should show in the install book which one to use.
    Your installer might know where it is and how to skim.
  • SlamDunk
    SlamDunk Member Posts: 1,584
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    you could remove t&p valve the way it is installed (incorrectly), crack fill water valve to trickle water in, let it trickle out nipple where t&p was, turn on boiler to heat it up every thirty minutes. keep water approx 180 degrees. the idea is to let machining oils float to top of water and trickle out. it can take 8 hrs or16 hrs. Painful but necessary.
  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 15,713
    edited November 2018
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    You can skim that all you want it'll never work because the equalizer is on the wrong side.

    Sadly it needs to be fixed. :(
    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
    SlamDunk
  • coolfx35
    coolfx35 Member Posts: 77
    edited November 2018
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    Ironman said:

    It's piped wrong. The equalizer MUST come off of the end of the header. No copper above the water line.



    I think the reason he made the release valve horizontal was because the black pipe connecting to the equalizer is directly underneath of it.

    hmm... Can it be 45 degrees instead of vertical?
  • unclejohn
    unclejohn Member Posts: 1,833
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    How much trouble would it have been to complete the gas line in black pipe. Doesn't any one carry a fitting bag anymore?
  • neilc
    neilc Member Posts: 2,703
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    you could fix that safety valve yourself with one more 90 and some tools,
    take the copper off, unscrew it,
    back the valve, and the 90 it's on, 1/4 turn counterclockwise,
    (well take it out and redope it first,)
    then screw your new 90 in where the copper was, and screw the copper back into that 90, done.
    takes less time than it did for me to type this.

    the header is a little more involved, equally important, and for any decent mechanic, that can read a manual, wouldn't take that much more time than the rest of this typing did.

    Reading is fundamental.
    (this isn't directed at you)

    known to beat dead horses
  • brandonf
    brandonf Member Posts: 205
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    Besides the bad install, was the boiler sized correctly? 🤔🤔
    Homeowner, Entrepreneur, Mechanic, Electrician,

    "The toes you step on today are connected to the butt you'll have to kiss tomorrow". ---Vincent "Buddy" Cianci
  • brandonf
    brandonf Member Posts: 205
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    If that's a water alarm, I'd prefer to have it on the floor so I would know if there is a half inch of water instead of 4 inches.....just my 2¢.
    Homeowner, Entrepreneur, Mechanic, Electrician,

    "The toes you step on today are connected to the butt you'll have to kiss tomorrow". ---Vincent "Buddy" Cianci
    ethicalpaul
  • neilc
    neilc Member Posts: 2,703
    edited November 2018
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    I think it's suggested upstairs here somewhere,
    instead of the 90 between the valve and boiler,
    plumb in a Tee with the valve on top as I suggest above,
    and add a valve and cap on the horizontal, this becomes your skim port.
    Or post a better picture of that port behind the equalizer.
    known to beat dead horses
  • coolfx35
    coolfx35 Member Posts: 77
    edited November 2018
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    brandonf said:

    If that's a water alarm, I'd prefer to have it on the floor so I would know if there is a half inch of water instead of 4 inches.....just my 2¢.

    Good eye, this one has 2 parts, the metal part that detects the water is on the ground. the one you pointed out is the alarm with battery.
    brandonf
  • coolfx35
    coolfx35 Member Posts: 77
    edited November 2018
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    brandonf said:

    Besides the bad install, was the boiler sized correctly? 🤔🤔

    It's pretty much the same as my last boiler, 172btu vs 170btu. i didn't have any issues with my last one. so I assuming I am close. He did count all the radiators and square footage of the house and decided on this one.
  • Dave0176
    Dave0176 Member Posts: 1,177
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    @coolfx35 unfortunately I’m not sure why you didn’t choose @EzzyT, or when you reached out to me you never responded back. Ezzy or I would have done this right but, it is what is.
    DL Mechanical LLC Heating, Cooling and Plumbing 732-266-5386
    NJ Master HVACR Lic# 4630
    Specializing in Steam Heating, Serving the residents of New Jersey
    https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/dl-mechanical-llc

    https://m.facebook.com/DL-Mechanical-LLC-315309995326627/?ref=content_filter

    I cannot force people to spend money, I can only suggest how to spend it wisely.......
    JohnNY
  • EBEBRATT-Ed
    EBEBRATT-Ed Member Posts: 15,546
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    What a shame.

    Another installer who can't read. I am sure it was a $$$thing. You get what you pay for. Especially with steam
  • JUGHNE
    JUGHNE Member Posts: 11,062
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    Coolfx 35, did you get a contract or proposal from this installer?
    It would be interesting to see.....blank out any money reference if you decide to show it.
  • Ironman
    Ironman Member Posts: 7,376
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    No auto fill valve either?
    Bob Boan
    You can choose to do what you want, but you cannot choose the consequences.
  • SlamDunk
    SlamDunk Member Posts: 1,584
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    you shouldnt need an autofill valve.
  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 15,713
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    You don't need an auto fill and there's really no reason to bring it up. The op has enough to deal with. :(
    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
    SlamDunk
  • BobC
    BobC Member Posts: 5,478
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    I agree the equalizer has to be piped correctly, it's a shame because the work he did on the header was not bad -it just won't work right till that equalizer is piped right.

    Looking at the manual it seems there is no choice but to use the PRV tapping to skim the boiler. Listen to what others have said about installing a T on that PRV tapping with the safety above and a horizontal pipe and cap to skim through.

    Bob
    Smith G8-3 with EZ Gas @ 90,000 BTU, Single pipe steam
    Vaporstat with a 12oz cut-out and 4oz cut-in
    3PSI gauge
    NYCHomeOwner

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