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Carrier moves jobs to Mexico

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Comments

  • hot_rodhot_rod Posts: 11,846Member
    I don't see all these manufacturing jobs coming back, ever. We are more a consumer society now, not a manufacturing.

    We need to look at and embrace what the US is still the leader in, making sheetmetal boxes doesn't seem to have a great future here, the CEOs and board of directors have decided.

    How is it that mainly the Japanese and Germans are manufacturing autos and trucks here as the US manufacturers are flocking to Mexico?

    Attending several university graduations lately I notice many seemed to be from other countries, coming for a great education then taking the skills home to compete against us?
    Maybe they are the only ones that can afford a top name university degree anymore.

    Even the medical and dental profession is being off-shored.

    We need to pay attention to educating our own citizens that will stay here and be the next generation engineers and doctors, as well as tradespeople.
    Bob "hot rod" Rohr
    trainer for Caleffi NA
    The magic is in hydronics, and hydronics is in me
  • Paul48Paul48 Posts: 4,492Member
    The wife and I took a ride through the affluent neighborhood in my home town, Sunday. Literally, every 3rd or 4th house had a for sale sign in front of it. The rich don't seem to realize that they are forever linked to the poor. There is no top, without a bottom.
  • TimeBanditTimeBandit Posts: 24Member
    I, for one, don't feel as though our interests are adequately represented by the "leaders" that we vote into power. I don't see why we need a representative government at all anymore -- we have the Internet... we have the power to vote DIRECTLY on any issue we want, all day, every day. Why keep voting these self-serving crooks into power all the time? The whole concept is obsolete. POLITICIANS SHOULD GO THE WAY OF THE TOASTER REPAIRMEN... sorry, but we just don't need you anymore.
  • hot_rodhot_rod Posts: 11,846Member

    I, for one, don't feel as though our interests are adequately represented by the "leaders" that we vote into power. I don't see why we need a representative government at all anymore -- we have the Internet... we have the power to vote DIRECTLY on any issue we want, all day, every day. Why keep voting these self-serving crooks into power all the time? The whole concept is obsolete. POLITICIANS SHOULD GO THE WAY OF THE TOASTER REPAIRMEN... sorry, but we just don't need you anymore.

    And their salaries and lifetime benefits, and all the money spent investigating each other, the endless and wearysome campaigns, it should all be eliminated.
    Bob "hot rod" Rohr
    trainer for Caleffi NA
    The magic is in hydronics, and hydronics is in me
  • BobCBobC Posts: 4,995Member
    The pay they get for being in congress is just the tip of the iceberg, the real money comes from K street. Put a time clock on the chamber wall and pay them for the hours they are on the clock. If they don't like it they don't have to work there.

    Bob
    Smith G8-3 with EZ Gas @ 90,000 BTU, Single pipe steam
    Vaporstat with a 12oz cut-out and 4oz cut-in
    3PSI gauge
  • GordyGordy Posts: 9,264Member
    Agree,with you Bob. The real driver to get into a political positions is connections. Those connections turn into money. Big money. Same with Ivy League schools. The real driver is connections.

    If you think about it 100k a year is not much anymore. Not in this cabbage diluted economy. A good Union tradesman can knock down 100K in a construction season if overtime is in the picture on a hot job. Especially road construction with a company that has a lot of work with few knowledgable tradesmen. However earning 100k working 3 months verses 12 is more pleasurable.
  • Paul48Paul48 Posts: 4,492Member
    Assume for a minute, that Bill Clinton and the other politicians of the day, were just sadly mistaken about how NAFTA would affect American workers. Why, in the world would every administration that followed his, enter into more, similar, trade agreements? How much do they have to pay you, to destroy families, and change the job outlook for your own extended family?
  • BobCBobC Posts: 4,995Member
    It's all a terrible commentary on the moral fibre of our "leaders".

    I'm sure the firm of Dewey, Screw'em, and Howe knows exactly how much it takes to turn the right heads.

    Bob
    Smith G8-3 with EZ Gas @ 90,000 BTU, Single pipe steam
    Vaporstat with a 12oz cut-out and 4oz cut-in
    3PSI gauge
  • GordyGordy Posts: 9,264Member
    Ross called it no one believed him. A true capitalist worried about American industry.
  • LukeMorgan2016LukeMorgan2016 Posts: 1Member
    I thought companies were going to China for cheaper labor. Once the next president is elected (possible Trump), we will see how long Mexico will be the destination for these companies. I am proud to say that our American plumbing company is located in Sandy Springs, GA! We support metro Atlanta and surrounding cities and yes of course, the USA!

    http://www.ssplumbingxperts.com/
  • GreenGeneGreenGene Posts: 290Member
    Hate to tell you guys but the entire left vs right thing is a scam.

    We had a short foothold, from post WWII to 1980 saw the creation and growth of the middle class. Ancient Greece saw this for almost 100 years but they too lost it to greed. They had a real cool system where to get in govt your name was pulled from a lottery, you served for a bit and retired, each year they'd have a vote, people could out your name in if you were in govt and greedy and you would lose all of your possessions and be banned for 10 years.

    Greed came back to haunt us way too soon, we became suckers for the hate speech that started, the separation, the Divide and Conquer tactic was in full swing, the deregulation of our media allowed a few to own the news, now we have a lot of citizens walking around repeating what they hear as fact when it is merely opinion they heard on tv or radio.

    The simple fact is there are no parties, Wall st and large corporations own it all, they own Hillary, they own Trump, election is about winning the gifts and perks not about serving me or you.

    They can do this because Congress passed a law stating they are exempt from Insider Trading Laws, the SEC and others have been fighting it to no avail.

    Anyone who went along with deregulation I want to thank you for helping destroy our lives, all of those industries like banks, media, Wall st etc etc had been regulated because we got ripped off, poisoned, and abandoned.

    In the future follow the money and check your facts.
  • GreenGeneGreenGene Posts: 290Member
    Gordy said:

    Ross called it no one believed him. A true capitalist worried about American industry.

    Ross had me up to the point where he laid out his energy plan, his plan was to tax energy and bring gas prices at the pump the European levels of $7gal, that would kill our economy, we couldn't even sustain $5 in mid 2000's.

    If you have a nation that is paying $2gal and the price jumps to $4-5gal it has a huge ripple effect, everything goes up, and then electricity goes up and everything goes up again, people and companies stopped spending on other things because they are putting it in the tank.

    But Ross is an amazing person and one of the few that tried his best to take care of his employees, especially when 2 were taken hostage in Iran and our vets.

    For Trump to compare himself to Perot is an outrage, Ross has way more class.
  • GordyGordy Posts: 9,264Member
    Maybe Ross's energy tax would have launched alternatives to anexceptabke ratio by now. No pain no gain.....
  • Paul48Paul48 Posts: 4,492Member
    And forced the rebuilding of our infrastructure, with proper mass-transit and rail. I disagree that our economy, at that time, could not have sustained it. Certainly, once you have a depressed economy, it can't.

    Imagine a candidate promising to empty the Fed of all our gold reserves, and give it to foreign countries. That is what they are all doing. Who do you want to vote for?
  • GreenGeneGreenGene Posts: 290Member
    Well respectfully you're both wrong, our economy could never sustain that. It killed us in the 2000's, even the media reports are all wrong, when W entered office it was $1.85, by 2003 it was climbing and hit $4 and over, heating fuel went over that.

    The news said the crash was caused by people buying a home they couldn't afford, BS, people started losing their homes because of the ripple effect of CFMA of 2000, speculators falsely raising crude for profit and the economy tanked, that is not a Free Market or capitalism, it's Oligarchy.

    What we need to do is work out a way that legally we cut subsidies while making it law they can't raise prices in response, sooner or later the elite have to stand on their own feet, what is the limit of Corporate Welfare?, do you cut it when the CEO clears 2 million, 20 million? 1billion ?, at what profit level do these large corporations no longer need taxpayer support???
  • DanHolohanDanHolohan Posts: 14,773Member, Moderator, Administrator
    So, lads, The Politics of Heating?
    Retired and loving it.
  • ratioratio Posts: 2,100Member
    @DanHolohan, where can I order my official Heating Help tinfoil hat? ;)

  • DanHolohanDanHolohan Posts: 14,773Member, Moderator, Administrator
    I'll ask Erin. ⚡️
    Retired and loving it.
  • Paul48Paul48 Posts: 4,492Member
    "Carrier moves jobs to Mexico"

    What would be an appropriate response to this, within the context of The Politics of Heating?
  • GordyGordy Posts: 9,264Member
    I would say the discussion brushes with the political events, and policies that made it exceptable, or shall I say profitable to pick up, and move manufacturing to a country where wages are inherently low, and environmental concerns far less restrictive.

    Not in our backyard has a new meaning these days...
  • DanHolohanDanHolohan Posts: 14,773Member, Moderator, Administrator
    How will that affect Carrier sales? What choices will contractors/consumers make? Will it change anything?
    Retired and loving it.
  • GordyGordy Posts: 9,264Member
    edited July 2016
    A knife in manufacturings side is for unions to go global. At least maybe the work forces being exploited could stand a chance of prosperity. Let's see then how many times a company picks up shop, and moves to a more prosperous terrain.
  • GreenGeneGreenGene Posts: 290Member
    edited July 2016
    But unions are bad, Reagan said so, of course after he got all his gains from the SAG. - sarcasm
  • GreenGeneGreenGene Posts: 290Member
    edited July 2016
    and why don't you answer my question?

    what is the limit of Corporate Welfare?, do you cut it when the CEO clears 2 million, 20 million? 1 billion ?, at what profit level do these large corporations no longer need taxpayer support???

    and why do sports teams get incredible stadiums built by taxpayers and then keep all the profits? then claim non profit to avoid taxes?

    do you see what is going on?

    what happens when the local guy needs to expands his business? doesn't he go to the bank and prove to them it will work so they'll approve the loan?

    why can't all the others do that?

    and shouldn't our government ban products built outside the U.S. to a degree, especially ones like Carrier who left only to profit and exploit?
  • GordyGordy Posts: 9,264Member

    How will that affect Carrier sales? What choices will contractors/consumers make? Will it change anything?


    Depends on the consumer Dan. There are those that associate Carriers logo with the ford logo. Not in a liking manner.

    There are those that still would rather spend their money on American made products. Made in America. There are those that could care less where it's made.

    Question is will carrier be able to up hold their level of quality in Mexico.

    Also will the bottom line of their move create consumer value creation. Not just shareholder value creation. I will assume the latter. It cooks my grits when a company passes on the lower wage benefit directly to shareholders, and nothing to the consumer.
  • GordyGordy Posts: 9,264Member
    The bottom line is it takes far less effort to turn an economic super power into a third world economical disaster than the other way around.
  • ChrisJChrisJ Posts: 10,116Member
    @Gordy
    You mean "couldn't care less".
    If someone can care less, they clearly care to an extent.
    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
  • Paul48Paul48 Posts: 4,492Member
    OK......I assumed we were discussing the politics that lead to Carriers move.
  • Paul48Paul48 Posts: 4,492Member
    Along a similar line as Gordy was talking about.....a national labor union, might do the trick. Here's the thing....all these companies still want the American marketplace. How about a consumers union? If you don't manufacture here, you severely hurt your sales here. Turning "Buy American" into a reality. All the companies that have moved offshore, and never lowered the price of their products, can move right back.
  • ChrisJChrisJ Posts: 10,116Member
    Paul48 said:

    Along a similar line as Gordy was talking about.....a national labor union, might do the trick. Here's the thing....all these companies still want the American marketplace. How about a consumers union? If you don't manufacture here, you severely hurt your sales here. Turning "Buy American" into a reality. All the companies that have moved offshore, and never lowered the price of their products, can move right back.

    Personally,
    I don't care if it's made here, necessarily.
    I do care if it's made in a quality shop that takes pride in what they produce and pays their workers a good wage. That I care about.

    And I believe, if everyone is competitive it'd work out well.
    Paying slave wages in a communist country that runs sweat shops isn't possible to compete with and produces poor quality products.

    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
  • GordyGordy Posts: 9,264Member
    ChrisJ said:

    @Gordy
    You mean "couldn't care less".
    If someone can care less, they clearly care to an extent.

    Okay Chris ;) ;)


  • GordyGordy Posts: 9,264Member
    ChrisJ said:

    Paul48 said:

    Along a similar line as Gordy was talking about.....a national labor union, might do the trick. Here's the thing....all these companies still want the American marketplace. How about a consumers union? If you don't manufacture here, you severely hurt your sales here. Turning "Buy American" into a reality. All the companies that have moved offshore, and never lowered the price of their products, can move right back.

    Personally,
    I don't care if it's made here, necessarily.
    I do care if it's made in a quality shop that takes pride in what they produce and pays their workers a good wage. That I care about.

    And I believe, if everyone is competitive it'd work out well.
    Paying slave wages in a communist country that runs sweat shops isn't possible to compete with and produces poor quality products.

    You have caring issues.......

  • Paul48Paul48 Posts: 4,492Member
    Mexico is not a communist country, but the workers are paid about $8k a year, and forget about benefits.
  • ChrisJChrisJ Posts: 10,116Member
    Paul48 said:

    Mexico is not a communist country, but the workers are paid about $8k a year, and forget about benefits.

    I was mainly talking about China,
    But as you said Mexico doesn't pay a fair wage.


    @Gordy I couldn't care less what you think about me caring or not caring. :)

    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
  • Harvey RamerHarvey Ramer Posts: 2,200Member
    This would be spot on topic.
    I went to service one of my customer's HVAC unit. So happens it's a carrier. I didn't install it but I deknuckleheaded it and service it. It has had a few issues over the years.

    Anyway, this time when I was out, the topic of a new system came up. The homeowner was very quick to inform me that he won't be purchasing another carrier, because they moved to Mexico.

    I guess it will hurt their business among the people who are actually paying attention to the world around them. I predict that the Pokémon Go crowd will remain loyal.
    Ramer Mechanical
    ramermechanical.com
    To learn more about this professional, click here to visit their ad in Find A Contractor.
  • GreenGeneGreenGene Posts: 290Member
    that's why companies move there

    this is why our cities are falling apart and crime is rampant, those are the people that would be doing a lot of that work
  • GreenGeneGreenGene Posts: 290Member
    and you're over 30 years too late, the time to get serious about it and talk about, learn maybe, was 1980-90 and stop it

    What may happen to Carrier is Daiken gets set up and integrates the Goodman equipment and because they are made HERE people may drop Carrier ( hopefully) and as it's profits drop UTC will do what it has to balance out if one division is low which would be to have Otis or Pratt pick up the slack, or they may sell all or part of it, ironically I'll bet to Daiken.
  • GreenGeneGreenGene Posts: 290Member
    UTC claimed it had to move Carrier jobs to Mexico to stay competitive.

    Revenue Decrease US$56.098 billion (2015)[3]
    Operating income
    Decrease US$7.291 billion (2015)[3]
    Net income
    Increase US$7.608 billion (2015)

    Geraud Darnis/President and Chief Executive Officer, UTC Building and Industrial Systems 2011- 8,479,336 2012- 10,274,932 2013- 7,930,469 2014- 13,110,269 2015-14,409,658

    the others are similar, as you can see from the rising corporate pay levels they are indeed hurting financially --- sarcasm


    here's the video of the announcement to Carrier workers


  • ChrisJChrisJ Posts: 10,116Member
    edited July 2016
    GreenGene said:

    and you're over 30 years too late, the time to get serious about it and talk about, learn maybe, was 1980-90 and stop it

    What may happen to Carrier is Daiken gets set up and integrates the Goodman equipment and because they are made HERE people may drop Carrier ( hopefully) and as it's profits drop UTC will do what it has to balance out if one division is low which would be to have Otis or Pratt pick up the slack, or they may sell all or part of it, ironically I'll bet to Daiken.

    My understanding is it started long before then, back in the 1960s when electronics manufacturing started going to Japan, Hong Kong etc.

    But, since you said it's too late, what are your recommendations? Give up?

    How do we fix this disaster?

    Or do you honestly feel it's beyond fixing and we are doomed?
    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
  • Paul48Paul48 Posts: 4,492Member
    The loss of American jobs to third world countries, is like a cancer. Most of us(myself included), ignored the pleads of the unions to "Buy American", for years. Even now, the American public remains apathetic. Even though they have extended family that has been touched by this, they still don't seem to care enough to change their buying habits. As I said before, all classes in this economy are forever linked. You may be able to distance yourself from those below you economically, short-term. But if this current course is allowed to continue, you WILL become them.
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