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CO again
Comments
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I got one hand on the cranberry juice
and the other on my camera which is still tickin'
Here's a link to the story in cincy:
link to cincy journal
Murph' (getting savvy)0 -
Pictures show
that the flue is reduced in size, damaged return possibly allowing prodducts of combustion to enter the return ducts and enter the dwelling.
The door opening to outdoors would cause constant pressure changes in the building.
The double wall pipe is passing through a combustible ceiling (1" required clearance).
The flue pipe instalation leaves a lot to be desired.
Watch out with sealed combustion units installed near large exhaust systems to outdoors. Possible contamination of intake air from the exhaust from other building.
Flexible connectors should not be used in commercial establishments.
Just a few observations.0 -
welcome to my town.....
#1 the flue is an oval to round adapter on top, the duct did get a peice of tape and the ding looks worse then it is.
#2 the door is an emergency exit, although it does get used for service from time to time
#3the final inspection was probaly never done, although they probaly would not notice
#4 gas lady says flue looks good,"has lots of pitch" as she held up a match to check draft. the match blew out immediatley!!
#5 could not agree more (even this one is made of brass) which is a double whammy) when you explain these things they look at you like you are trying to clipp them for extra cash.
thanks for looking Timmie, hopefully they will get me to change the system, if they do I will post pics.
Murph'0 -
well
that door should count as "combustion air" right? I have never seen a basement that did not have a door somewhere.
The unit is vented as per manufactuers specs.( I would have run the double-wall right to the unit)
This situation is COMPLETELY due to depressurization. Period.
High pressure goes to low pressure, ALWAYS!
You could play with gas pressure all day, no change.
Depressurization of the Combustion Appliance Zone.
Mark H
To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Contractor"0 -
Dear Bob,
Get ready. I suspect it WILL become mandatory in the near future. Better bone up on how to use one accurately. I hope no one in your reach becomes a victim of CO poisoning.
ME0 -
Who said anything about gas
pressure adjustments????
Murph said he was going to recommend direct vent so I advised him that with the exhaust problem he had it could now be a problem on the outside depending on direct vent termination. Code has a difference in termination between direct vent and mechanical exhausting as it relates to air intake and exhaust.
The problem with doors to close to equipment in particular a restaurant that may have a lot of traffic in and out in the cooling effect on the room and the air in the room. This can cause problems with combustion and also draft and wind conditions. I have had this occur with walk in cellars on a number of occasions.0 -
#4
With regards to #4, that's why you need to test for draft with a cigarette - it won't blow out (Geeze)!!0 -
Timmie
Please don't take the "gas pressure" thing as an assault on you.
I was making the point that gas pressures have nothing to do with this problem, and you NEVER said that they did.
Forums are such a tough place to get meanings across.
I agree with all that you said Timmie.
Cross contamination of the intake air is a potential problem and the location of the intake needs to be considered.
Doors can also bring problems, but I think the door in that picture leads to the outside. It doesn't connect the office to the pizza place.
We always check the baseline pressure of basements in relation to atmospheric pressure. They are always negative, but that doesn't worry me too much. It's when I see a huge drop in baseline pressure during a worst case scenerio. That's when I will likely clear a house.
Mark H
To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Contractor"0 -
Didn't take it as an assualt
jut wondered where it came from?0 -
\"bad co detectors\"...not
i wonder how many "bad" co detectors the "HOME-DEsPOT" takes back, when there was nothing wrong with them, yes, i am gulty too, i took 2 of them back to them, after which i realized the my daughter's old stove was sick, and was prodcing enough co to trigger it!!!!, so y'all be carefull out there, ok, "und-test-evvrree-zzing...ya!!"0 -
thats the million dollar Q......
I went over with the manager what was happening, she appeared to be busy and wanted to get more prices on the replacement equipment. they had set up an appointment with a mid-size company here in town (the fee would shock most here)I suspect they are the same folks that had re-lit this furnace in the past!! what they say, you can lead a horse to water........
Murph' (sos)0 -
It wasn't \"blown out\",
it was sucked out by the excellent draft in the flue, wink, wink. (sure it was,NOT)
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THE DOOR....
Comes from a service walkway that runs behind the buildings, this is seperate from the pizza shop. I feel that they are doing the de=pressurizing through the old ductworks from way long ago, I do not feel the fire-rated walls between stores go any farther than the old plaster ceilings above the drop ceiling!!
Murph'0 -
I was just going to predict...
that this WILL become the largest thread in the history of The Wall. And it's for a good cause. If you're not testing, your guessing. And someones life may be at stake.
What's a human life worth these days?
The cost of a good testing device is less than $1,500.00 per unit per year. That's $5.76 for each business day.
Why don't you have a tester??
Please, get a tester and learn how to use it properly, and completely... Use it on you and your family first. The next life you save COULD be your own, or someone dear and near to you.
Your mom would think it's a good idea.
ME0 -
Be careful...
I've had single phase inducer motors start and run backwards because of internal building negative pressures.
I didn't think you could get a single phase motor to run backwards, but Murphies law proved me wrong.
Look for major exhaust fan loads taking away from your natural draft.
ME0 -
CO detector test
April-Aire sells a CO detector test kit. (I got mine through RE Michels)
Just a can of CO and a bag.
Put the bag around the unit a spray the CO in.
Then time how long it takes for the unit to alarm.
The test kit costs about $15 and you get 7 tests per can.
Well worth it.
Mark H
To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Contractor"0 -
It works
This year as part of their free winter tune-ups for senior citizens, a group of northwest Detroit contractors took the test kits with them and tested every home that had a CO detector. If bad, they replaced. If no detector present, they installed one for free. Nice gesture.0 -
Here's another
I can't believe how many times I get stories like this one.
http://www.whiotv.com/news/2740189/detail.html
Mark H
To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Contractor"0 -
Close call in Brooklyn
This story is a classic example of how people die.
These folks had been passing out from CO poisoning and chalked it up "something going around".
Even when they visited the hospital, doctors "found nothing wrong".
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/01/05/nyregion/05FUME.html?ex=1073883600&en=addc94a1f9692c3c&ei=5062&partner=GOOGLE
Mark H
To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Contractor"0 -
let me help
> This story is a classic example of how people
> die.
>
> These folks had been passing out from CO
> poisoning and chalked it up "something going
> around".
>
> Even when they visited the hospital,
> doctors "found nothing
> wrong".
>
> http://www.nytimes.com/2004/01/05/nyreg
> ion/05FUME.html?ex=1073883600&en=addc94a1f9692c3c&
> ei=5062&partner=GOOGLE
>
> Mark H
>
> _A
> HREF="http://www.heatinghelp.com/getListed.cfm?id=
> 238&Step=30"_To Learn More About This
> Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in
> "Find A Contractor"_/A_
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0
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Testing
The manufacturers instructions plainly state : TEST on installation and during annual service by qualified technician. Unfortunately MORONS don't read instructions throw equipment in and say I can set this by eye, I don't need no gx%&#@&% over priced tester. Besides I'm too stupid to learn and charge enough to pay for the equipment to do the job right. And that is my POLITICALLY INCORRECT Opinion.... FACT!!!! GEORGE P.S. IF you truly can't afford an electronic tester at least use a shaker bottle kit to set up the burner. they are cheap0 -
is that
an AGA rated gas valve?0 -
How do I get OFF this thread??
I just wanted to get some calibration info about Bacharachs, now I'm barraged by 20 emails a day about someone dying from CO. A couple of you guys need to find a hobby! ; ^ D
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whats wrong with that!!?
No seriously, go back to your original post and klik the red "edit" button and see your original post, then un-check the box that says "Notify me by e-mail about all messages posted in this topic". Or you can change your e-mail address and wipe your hard drive and re-load windowz!!
Murph' (good luck)0 -
\"Mommy I'm tired\"
Read this!
How many more "close calls" will it take to get people testing?
The best in the industry gather here.
So be the best.
http://www.nbc4columbus.com/news/2743050/detail.html
Mark H
To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Contractor"0 -
Gas powered sump pump
Another close call for a family completely unaware of what comes out of exhausts.
http://www.onnnews.com/story.php?record=28342
Mark H
To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Contractor"0 -
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My hobby is educating
people that is why I hang out here. Sorry if we jammed you up but follows Murph's advice and we will go away.
Did you get the help you needed on the Bacharach?0 -
Here is a CO problem for you...
Utica Boiler with a built in diverter, input is correct, it is vented into a 10" x 12" chimney which is adequate size and is about 30' high exiting the roof line with proper clearances no abuting structures. Two water heaters into same chimney no problem with water heaters (very low CO at 15 PPM On each). The vent comes directly off the top of the boiler into a 90 degree elbow and on a straight line into the chimney about 12" above the clean out. The horizontal run is about 3 feet to the chimney.
The flame is nice and blue, the boiler was taken apart and cleaned (it really was not dirty) no soot.
The boiler is in a basement 50' x 60' with no partitions and plenty of air. There are actually two chimneys in this complex. There is another identical Utica Boiler in the other chimney with a water heater and it has CO at 24 PPM and is running fine.
It is making over 2,000 ppm CO, I pulled the probe out so as to not contaminate my sensor. The gas company and one plumbing contractor looked at this boiler and said it needed cleaned. They both left it running. The pilot by the way keeps going out and the thermocouple is okay as is the gas valve.
Let us have some fun here and see what you all think should be done.
I would ask Jim Davis to hold off for a while and see what the guys come up with.
Do not be afraid to ask questions and I will give you more data based on your questions.0 -
CO and personal safety
Why should I test for CO? Because when you go into a building you do not know if CO is present. It has no odor, you can not see it, it has no taste in fact all of your senses are really not much good. If you look at how long you need to be exposed to certain levels of CO you could be DEAD before you knew what hit you. That is why I carry my detector everywhere I go.
SO FOR NO OTHER REASON YOUR OWN PERSONAL SAFETY!!! TEST - TEST- TEST. HOW MUCH IS YOUR LIFE WORTH????0 -
so what is the best co tester??
weigh portability, ease of use, readability in dark env,
consumables, life-expctncy, and cost
let's see if we can make this the longest thread ever :-}0 -
Where did common sense go?
When it comes to CO, there isn't any!
http://tv.ksl.com/index.php?nid=5&sid=68114
Mark H
To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Contractor"0 -
Too much draft
Sounds like a wind shear issue, with that huge high chimney if the wind was blowing when the burner tried to start the draft into the diverter might block the flue products.0 -
whats the draft reading?
is it drafting?0 -
More \"common sense\"
This one resulted in a death.
How many of us have attached garages?
http://www.burnettcountysentinel.com/Main.asp?SectionID=1&SubSectionID=20&ArticleID=7748
Mark H
To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Contractor"0 -
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That one is near to me
in more than one way. It is right over from Warren, RI where my training center is located. I also know both of the Chases and their family.
A big problem with LP gas operated fork lifts and industrial LP operated floor buffers being used indoors. There are many cases of CO poisoning from those sources.0 -
Draft is
-.02 with a little less at the burner.0 -
Two water heaters
into the same chimney with no problem. Same boiler into another chimney in the same building same size same boilers works okay.0
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