sump pump back up system

zepfan · July 19

what would be better for a sump pump back up system. A dual pump system such as a Liberty 441-10a system, or an Auxiliary power system such as a Pump sentry 822PS? With either one you have to supply your own deep cycle battery, but it seems to me that the labor is a lot less with the power system, and if the existing primary pump is in good shape the final installed cost to the homeowner would be about the same with either set up. I didn't know if anyone had any strong feelings either way as to which was the better option.

Thanks to all

hot_rod · July 19

With the Liberty you have a back up pump and power outage protection? It may flip back and forth to put equal run time on the pumps??

Sounds like the Pump Sentry is just a power outage system. So if the one pump fails and power is out??

How much protection do you want? $$

Are you a lucky person?

mattmia2 · July 19

if you have municipal water, the eductor type water powered pumps are probably the best backup. if the battery has failed since the last outage you have no pump and you will have to recharge the battery during a prolonged outage. the eductor costs more to run but you're not replacing a battery every 5 or 10 years.

Jamie Hall · July 19

Start off by defining the failure mode you are trying to protect against. The two systems mentioned protect against entirely different failure modes, so they are not comparable in any way.

A pump failure? OK, then dual ALTERNATING pumps, with an alarm set at the level where the backup pump turns on, is the way to go. (most alarms are set way too high, by the way). The Liberty unit you note is NOT such a system.

A power failure? That sort of assumes the power is out but the pump is working. The Pump Sentry seems to do that, and so does the Liberty — the difference being the Liberty has a second pump running off the battery. Either would be a good choice solely for a power failure.

The water eductor — basically a jet pump — which @mattmia2 mentioned is an excellent choice for a power failure scenario — if your water supply stays on.

But — as I say, first define what failure mode or modes you are trying to protect against.

pumpcontrolguy · July 21

Figured its also worth mentioning this for whatever you end up with:

A backup pump that doesn't also run during normal operation should to be routinely tested. If a pump sits for a long time without operating, it can quickly fail when running in it's backup capacity due to seal faces sticking together and then breaking when it starts up after sitting for so long.

Jamie Hall · July 22

A comment relative to "Backup" pumps" and maintenance. my humble opinion, there really is no such critter. I've designed a few dozen systems — granted, larger — over the years and also run systems.

Dual pumps, yes. Quite common. But they are DUAL pumps. Either pump is capable of doing the required job. They are arranged with automatic level controls, and the lead pump alternates with EVERY cycle. The levels are set as follows, from dry or near empty going up.. 1. Lead pump off. 2. Lead pump on. 3. Lag pump off. 4. ALARM. 5. Lag pump on.

Any other arrangement and two things WILL happen, both bad. First, One of the pumps will fail to operate. Two, you won't know about it until both pumps fail.

I've seen that failure mode in systems ranging from humble little sump pumps in someone's basement to small sewage ejector pumps where the septic system is uphill from the house to million gallons per day water supply and wastewater systems.

The two keys to success are simple: the pumps alternate lead and lag on every cycle — and the ALARM goes nuts BEFORE the lag pump is called on.

hot_rod · July 22

You can probably find a control with built in exercise functions for the pumps

Maybe even a system that can be monitored and alarm to an app

https://www.waynepumps.com/product/halo50/

mattmia2 · July 22

https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1900613#Comment_1900613

we have the same issue with multi lamp projectors. no one notices that the other lamps have failed until the last lamp fails.

pumpcontrolguy · July 23

https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1900613#Comment_1900613

A proper duplex system with lag alarm that is audible in places other than right next to the pumps is always the best way to go.

Unfortunately most homeowner scale sump pits that I've seen are just large enough to drop a single pump in. so sometimes you just gotta make do with what's available

Jamie Hall · July 23

https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1900700#Comment_1900700

Sadly true. So where you have just that one cramped sump pump pit (which also may mean that the pump endures a lot of cycling), as you say you just have to live with it. High water alarm in the basement or whatever, and keep everything which might get damaged well raised off the floor…

sump pump back up system

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