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What do you look for in entry level job candidates?

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SlamDunk
SlamDunk Member Posts: 1,814
edited April 28 in THE MAIN WALL

I have two young candidates, about 20 years old, both graduated from community college HVAC-R program. I can only hire one.

Neither can find jobs in HVAC industry. I checked their claim that companies want five years experience. That is what I see myself. Neither has a great resume which is to be expected. Both are eager and both had good gpa's.

What do you look for in young candidates looking for work? What questions would you ask? If I could, I would hire both.

I should add, this is a utility maintenance position were we work on chillers, boilers,plumbing, control and electrical.

Comments

  • Pumpguy
    Pumpguy Member Posts: 804

    I would ask about personal experiences and interests. What did your father and grandfathers or uncles or other acquaintances do in these fields? Did you help them in any way, or even watch what they did working in these fields?

    I didn't realize it then, but as I look back on my own experiences with my father and grandfather, these certainly affected what I'm doing today.

    Dennis Pataki. Former Service Manager and Heating Pump Product Manager for Nash Engineering Company. Phone: 1-888 853 9963
    Website: www.nashjenningspumps.com

    The first step in solving any problem is TO IDENTIFY THE PROBLEM.
  • EBEBRATT-Ed
    EBEBRATT-Ed Member Posts: 20,274

    The ability to learn. An attitude of wanting to work and learn,

    I would ask if they are willing to work nights, weekends, holidays if necessary. That usually separates the good from the not so good weather it is a requirement for the job you are offering or not.

    I am retired but my brother is still working in a position in a power plant. He says the last few years getting people is very difficult and getting people to work nights and weekends is nearly impossible. Sorry to say many of the younger people just don't have the work ethic. His side job is running a boiler plant in a hospital same thing there. MA requires a HP steam plant to be manned 24/7. No one want s to work off hours.

    They have a wood fired boiler that can same them a ton on fuel expense but when burning wood they need more people on site 24/7. They have about given up on burning wood due to the lack of help. It's all automated but someone need to run the bucket loader, and the wood auger can jamb occasionally hence the need for more help.

  • 109A_5
    109A_5 Member Posts: 4,122

    Hobbies, does either work on their own vehicle ?

    National - U.S. Gas Boiler 45+ Years Old
    Steam 300 SQ. FT. - EDR 347
    One Pipe System
  • mattmia2
    mattmia2 Member Posts: 16,946

    i would give them your questions ahead of time

    i would ask some sort of generic logic question about how you work through solving a problem or troubleshooting but don't make it so you have to know about hvac stuff

    maybe some stuff about tools and mechanics

    this reminds me of the commercial where they show in the 80's this is how we did banking and show a pneumatic tube drive through teller and the person asks "where's it going?" and i'm thinking are you dumb? you see that person on the other side of the window that just picked it up? you don't want that person

  • EdTheHeaterMan
    EdTheHeaterMan Member Posts: 12,336

    When choosing between two candidates with similar technical training and no field experience, I would focus on indicators of reliability, accountability, and commitment.  Married with children indicates that they have responsibilities that will encourage them to keep a steady job. Do they pay rent for an apartment or do they live with mommy and daddy?  Are they party animals (which we all were at that age) will they call in sick on monday after a bender over the weekend? You can't ask about that stuff directly in the interview but you can maybe find out by casual conversation. 

    Their social media may be a clue also.  If you don't know how to navigate the stuff, maybe your kids do and they can help you. 

    For the interview: I recommend asking questions that help reveal how each candidate manages responsibility. For example:

    • What commitments do you currently have outside of work?
    • How have you demonstrated reliability in school, internships, or past jobs?
    • Can you give an example of a time you had to meet a responsibility or deadline consistently?
    • Also ask then how much they need to live on? This is to determine what you might be willing to pay them. You get what you pay for, so the guy that undervalues their worth might not be the best deal.

    Candidates who can demonstrate a pattern of showing up on time, meeting obligations, and taking ownership of their responsibilities are more likely to be dependable employees.

    In my experience, the key factor is not age or personal situation, but whether the individual has developed habits of accountability and follow-through.

    Edward Young Retired

    After you make that expensive repair and you still have the same problem, What will you check next?

    Larry Weingarten
  • SlamDunk
    SlamDunk Member Posts: 1,814

    I interviewed both via phone and they both have very similar qualities, backgrounds and family dynamics. they are coming in for another interview. I was hoping to find a tie breaker.

    hobbies? nothing mechanical. video games for both. Truly entry level looking for their first real job.

    I didnt expect to hear that they tear into things or repair their own cars. I know times have changed.

    At this point, it will be a coin toss.

  • 109A_5
    109A_5 Member Posts: 4,122

    Was their career choice a coin toss ?

    Why did they pick HVAC-R ?

    Yeah times have changed, I've been tearing into things as far back as I can remember.

    National - U.S. Gas Boiler 45+ Years Old
    Steam 300 SQ. FT. - EDR 347
    One Pipe System
  • EBEBRATT-Ed
    EBEBRATT-Ed Member Posts: 20,274

    @SlamDunk

    One thing I forgot that may be the deciding factor is any electrical experience or intrest. It has been proven time and time again that most service work is 75-80% electrical related.

    Other than that in my own experience (and many others in the business have mentioned this as well) is that if a person in HVACR can't get the electrical end of things he probably won't be very good.

    For some reason (and I don't claim to know the answer) a person that "gets electrical" can be taught anything else. But the reverse is not true

    109A_5ScottSecor
  • 109A_5
    109A_5 Member Posts: 4,122
    edited April 28

    @EBEBRATT-Ed

    Electrical tends to be more abstract. Folks that can handle the abstract stuff can usually handle the mechanical stuff. And like you stated the reverse is not as true.

    National - U.S. Gas Boiler 45+ Years Old
    Steam 300 SQ. FT. - EDR 347
    One Pipe System
  • SlamDunk
    SlamDunk Member Posts: 1,814

    In both cases, yeah. They were pushed onto to the “ join the trades” bandwagon. There was no evidence of ambition to get a trades job. Wish me luck. And thanks for everyone’s thoughts.

  • ratio
    ratio Member Posts: 4,248

    See if they'll meet your eyes and shake your hand. I just heard that shaking hands is 'triggering' to many of our youths nowadays. <sigh>

    Be a little rude to them, see how they handle it. It's important to be able to leave your feelings behind when you're at work.

  • pecmsg
    pecmsg Member Posts: 7,117

    In this market just like contractors, you have to weed through a lot to find the right one.

  • ethicalpaul
    ethicalpaul Member Posts: 8,883

    hobbies? nothing mechanical. video games for both. Truly entry level looking for their first real job.

    What hobby would have been a "good" one for this question? I'm sorry but asking unrelated things isn't going to get you much.

    "My favorite hobby is practicing sweating perfect elbow joints!" Let the kids have their hobbies whether it's video games or whatever.

    In the end, accept that you aren't really going to be able to tell who is going to be a good employee over the long term. Employers are obsessed with trying not to make any mistakes with multiple rounds of interviews. This is an entry level job it sounds like…just pick one!

    NJ Steam Homeowner.
    See my sight glass boiler videos: https://bit.ly/3sZW1el

    Grallert
  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 17,442

    My hobbies would make doing hvac much easier for someone.

    If it's possible, hiring both on probation for a month to see how they perform, show up etc would be really nice, if possible. If one of them only shows up half the time, or argues everything etc…….

    Single pipe 392sqft system with an EG-40 rated for 325sqft and it's silent and balanced at all times.

  • Steamhead
    Steamhead Member Posts: 18,553

    @SlamDunk , were their background checks a tie also?

    All Steamed Up, Inc.
    Towson, MD, USA
    Steam, Vapor & Hot-Water Heating Specialists
    Oil & Gas Burner Service
    Consulting
  • patrykrebisz
    patrykrebisz Member Posts: 119

    Have them come at half-rate for 1 week each and see their attitude. You gonna quickly find out who is better. (i work with lots of youngsters 23-25yo, the quality is all over the spectrum)

    »»» See my steam heat YouTube videos:
    https://www.youtube.com/@HeatingBlog

  • retiredguy
    retiredguy Member Posts: 1,095

    When I was still working, I was tasked with checking/testing a lot of the new hires and would report my findings. I first looked at their hands. to see if they had a working mans hands or were they smooth as a baby's butt. Then I would ask what @EBEBRATT-Ed asked about working all hours of the day and night , taking night calls and in any type of weather. When I was working, I never missed an emergency call due to the time of the day, weather, or any other problem in 35 years. .Find the guy that will commit and that is your man.

    Mad Dog_2
  • SlamDunk
    SlamDunk Member Posts: 1,814

    @Steamhead I wont know until we choose one and HR does a formal background check. I suspect They will be clean.

    @ethicalpaul That is a fair question. my team mates have hobbies like restoring cars,homes, welding art, carving, gardening and sewing. All hand-brain creative work that started in highschool and earlier. Hobbies can be foretelling. Playing guitar falls into the same category. I DON’T want to make a mistake. Firing people is near impossible here

    @ChrisJ I can only hire 1.

    This is a new experience. we normally only hire people with 5-10 + years experience. It is easier to interview people with experience.

  • SlamDunk
    SlamDunk Member Posts: 1,814

    @retiredguy ruled one candidate out for soft hands. he says he went from HS straight to construction for five years. His hand felt like it was boneless!

    EdTheHeaterManAlan (California Radiant) Forbes
  • 109A_5
    109A_5 Member Posts: 4,122
    edited April 28

    Yeah Hobbies !!! Since early childhood I ate, drank, sleep almost anything electrical, electronic, mechanical, anything I could get my hands on. I helped to rebuild a building that was fire damaged before I was driving. I did not grow up to be pushed to be Lawyer or a CPA. The educational system in this country needs to do better. Pushing folks into a career they are not good at is bad for everyone. The 'system' should do better to focus natural aptitude.

    National - U.S. Gas Boiler 45+ Years Old
    Steam 300 SQ. FT. - EDR 347
    One Pipe System
  • DanHolohan
    DanHolohan Member, Moderator, Administrator Posts: 16,715

    I would ask what was the last book they read. Did they enjoy it? Why or why not?

    Retired and loving it.
    109A_5ratioLarry WeingartenSlamDunk
  • JUGHNE
    JUGHNE Member Posts: 11,568

    20 somethings and reading books (other than classroom text books)……I suppose it happens .

    I would ask them if they watch any Utubes of HVAC repairs or installs.

    Or if they heard of HH.com.

  • Larry Weingarten
    Larry Weingarten Member Posts: 4,124

    Hi, I'd be looking for measures of their social skills. Are they good with people? Do they know how to listen or "do" empathy? Also, how well do they take in information? Do they get the clues people give them? How well does what they enjoy, line up with the work you want them to do?

    I don't know exactly how to test for these things… maybe take them along for some jobs and see how they interact. See what lights them up. 🤩

    Yours, Larry

  • EdTheHeaterMan
    EdTheHeaterMan Member Posts: 12,336
    edited April 28

    My son had a friend that wanted a job. I ended up giving him one. I asked my son to ask i=him to take a mechanicas aptitude test that has nothing to do with HVAC. it was something that I took when I was hored by someone else. My son looked at the test and thoght it was "Stupid" and never gave him the test. "Any moron would pass that test."

    Matthew told me " all you need to do is show me once and I will get it". After one year as a helper doing all kinds of mechanical work for me, I could clearly see that this individual was mechanically clueless.

    Here is a short test that you might use: https://www.123test.com/mechanical-reasoning-test/#its123-testAnchor

    PS: I just took the test and I got one wrong…. and I answered it correctly at first but I second guessed myself and changed the answer before I hit [Submit]

    Edward Young Retired

    After you make that expensive repair and you still have the same problem, What will you check next?

    ChrisJ
  • Karl Reynolds
    Karl Reynolds Member Posts: 83

    I only got 4/8, but I'm just a dumb wholesale rep.

    Alan (California Radiant) ForbesEdTheHeaterManpecmsg
  • MattinIndy
    MattinIndy Member Posts: 24

    I actually have had luck asking this type of question. If you find a person that for a hobby likes to work on cars, bikes, whatever. It has been my experience if they like that kind thing, they will likely be able to become a good tech, IF they desire to be such.

  • SlamDunk
    SlamDunk Member Posts: 1,814

    That is a great question @DanHolohan ! I didnt get to ask it but I will add it to my list for next time.


    A discussion with team mates who interviewed brought us to The One. Now for the background checks etc etc.

    Our chosen one was laid back, not nervous , but not cocky either, didn't blink when told about call ins and overtime, said "of course, things go down after hours and need to be brought back up. I understand the need". Firm handshake, good eye contact. He didnt have diarrhea of the mouth during intentional, pregnant pauses. In the end, I asked my team who will be more advanced five years from now? Will we need to hold their hands? The decision was unanimous.

    Thanks to all who contributed to this thread!

  • DanHolohan
    DanHolohan Member, Moderator, Administrator Posts: 16,715
    Retired and loving it.
    SlamDunk
  • Jamie Hall
    Jamie Hall Member Posts: 27,425

    Neat test. Got them all…

    Not sure how to answer the thread question, though. Two very different things, I suppose (I'm thinking of when I hire help around the farm here). How does the person treat machinery? And at least as important, how do they treat the critters? I simply can't afford to hire someone who is hard on machinery — that's both a money thing, but also an attitude thing. And how someone approaches the various critters (both domestic and wild) we have around tells me a whole lot about their overall personality and approach.

    Br. Jamie, osb
    Building superintendent/caretaker, 7200 sq. ft. historic house museum with dependencies in New England
    ChrisJEdTheHeaterMan
  • EBEBRATT-Ed
    EBEBRATT-Ed Member Posts: 20,274

    When i grew up we started on bicycles, then lawnmowers then cars.

    PC7060SlamDunkChrisJ
  • EBEBRATT-Ed
    EBEBRATT-Ed Member Posts: 20,274

    6 ot of 8 for me but I got lucky and guessed a t a couple of them

    ChrisJ
  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 17,442

    Single pipe 392sqft system with an EG-40 rated for 325sqft and it's silent and balanced at all times.

    PC7060
  • Alan (California Radiant) Forbes
    Alan (California Radiant) Forbes Member Posts: 4,745
    edited 1:27AM

    You hire a guy you think is perfect, but he turns out to be a drunk, beats his wife and is a jerk to your customers. Fire him and hire another guy who says he loves the trade and wants to learn, but he's always late for work and he's lazy. Hire another guy that leaves after a year to your competitor for more money.

    Go through ten to find one. Do some more research on being able to let people go when you discover they're not what you or they want. Perhaps hire a local lawyer to consult with or your local plumbers association for tips.

    8.33 lbs./gal. x 60 min./hr. x 20°ΔT = 10,000 BTU's/hour

    Two btu per sq ft for degree difference for a slab
  • SlamDunk
    SlamDunk Member Posts: 1,814

    @EdTheHeaterMan when I interviewed for a major airline to be an aircraft mechanic, I took 8 hours of testing(reading, math,something like your test but a hundred questions and a couple psych tests) , four hours getting a physical and drug tested, and four hours of interviews.

    Then, some time with a psychiatrist to evaluate me and my test results.

    It was a bizaar meeting but near the end he told me my personality test indicates that i am a mild E strong I, STP. And if for no other reason, he would recommend me for hire because I am an ISTP. Apparently, that means I am a mechanic. But the occasional E, Extraverted,will get me in trouble. I am a hard I- introverted (think of a sine wave with peaks- he said) but because I bounce into E territory occasionally, people will think I am management material but I would hate management. He wasn't wrong! I feel it was accurate but sometimes my horoscope seems accurate too.

    The Strong-campbell inventory test said my interest was off the chart high for mechanic and electrician. But, it also said I was more interested in being a nun than a priest. For some reason, that makes me proud.

  • Steamhead
    Steamhead Member Posts: 18,553

    @SlamDunk said "The Strong-campbell inventory test said my interest was off the chart high for mechanic and electrician. But, it also said I was more interested in being a nun than a priest. For some reason, that makes me proud."

    Even though you'd never pass the physical for that position? 😁

    All Steamed Up, Inc.
    Towson, MD, USA
    Steam, Vapor & Hot-Water Heating Specialists
    Oil & Gas Burner Service
    Consulting
  • JohnNY
    JohnNY Member Posts: 3,372

    I look for a spark in their personality. An energy if you will. My ex-wife was a Human Resources professional and she used to say that a major purpose or goal of an interview is to get the candidate to talk. Especially when comparing candidates, invariably one will talk themselves out of the job.

    Contact John "JohnNY" Cataneo, NYC Master Plumber, Lic 1784
    Consulting & Troubleshooting
    Heating in NYC or NJ.
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