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Can my vintage boiler wiring be updated to modern wiring?

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Hello,
I’m making plans to finish rewiring the rest of my 1909 house (1st floor and basement) and updating to 200 amp service. Rest of the house was updated in 2024.


My question for the heating pros here, can my 1937 gravity boiler’s power also be easily updated to modern standards away from the old fuse panel seen here in photos? Any considerations I need to warn my electrician of?

Just to be clear, I have a modern 100 amp circuit breaker panel for the house. Only my boiler has this old vintage fuse box setup. The wiring is old BX that snakes around the basement and terminates to a junction box. The circuit my boiler is on is a 20 amp circuit and as with most old houses shares with a bunch of random areas in the house. If I flip the circuit breaker the boiler goes off just like everything else. The goal after rewiring is to have my boiler all by its lonesome self on a circuit. Most of what you see in the first pic like the vintage Honeywell aquastat is disabled already. The only “live” part is the power switch and transformer.

I do NOT want to ever get rid of my No. 7 Ideal boiler unless it outright fails due to a leak or a crack pumping high levels of CO out. But the thing doesn’t have a speck of rust inside so I don’t foresee that anytime soon. It’s celebrating 89 heating seasons and operates well for its age. So I have no desire to ever get rid of my green beast. See power setup and most recent combustion analyzer result from last month. (I have my own analyzer)


Thank you,

IMG_4149.jpeg IMG_4150.jpeg IMG_4151.jpeg IMG_3330.jpeg IMG_3685.jpeg

Lifelong Michigander

-Willie

GGross

Comments

  • bburd
    bburd Member Posts: 1,291

    Any competent licensed electrician can replace that older wiring with modern wiring and connect to your existing boiler controls, while feeding power from a new independent circuit.


    Bburd
    TheUpNorthState88delcrossv
  • EBEBRATT-Ed
    EBEBRATT-Ed Member Posts: 19,987

    15 am circuit is all you need. No issue with updating the wiring

    Do you have another aquastat? Why is the old one disabled

    TheUpNorthState88
  • TheUpNorthState88
    TheUpNorthState88 Member Posts: 106

    I'm unsure, everything here predates me by many years. It works and that's where I leave things. The previous owner lived in the house 60 years with this boiler (she's 92 and I check on her like a grandmother) . Imagine not never having to purchase a boiler, but use the one that was already installed for 60 years. Those days are long gone lol.

    Lifelong Michigander

    -Willie

  • Jamie Hall
    Jamie Hall Member Posts: 27,136

    Do update that — although technically, in many jurisdictions, you may not have to.

    But two things: remember that when you update, all the new stuff (and sometimes more) has to meet the current code requirements. Since you have other circuits involved, they may (and probably should) need to be updated as well — and, of course, the boiler must be on its own circuit (as @EBEBRATT-Ed said, 15 amp is ample).

    I would be VERY surprised if the present 20 amp arrangement is correct, by the way. Just because you can screw in a 20 amp fuse doesn't mean that the wiring it serves is adequate for 20 amps. That age, it's very likely to be 14 gauge, which is a maximum of 15 amps.

    Br. Jamie, osb
    Building superintendent/caretaker, 7200 sq. ft. historic house museum with dependencies in New England
  • MaxMercy
    MaxMercy Member Posts: 588

    That thing is running really lean.

  • EBEBRATT-Ed
    EBEBRATT-Ed Member Posts: 19,987

    My biggest concern would be this boiler running without a working high limit control if the old aquastat is disabled.

    mattmia2
  • mattmia2
    mattmia2 Member Posts: 16,239

    what is the second pole of the switch used for(i remember trying to figure that out in another thread)? are those 24vac transformers? the fused switch itself can be replaced with a modern toggle switch. if the transformers are 24vac I would replace them with a new transformer because the primary wiring is likely to crumble as soon as you start trying to bend it.

    like others said you would wire a new dedicated circuit to it because central heating equipment has to be on its own circuit.

    is one of those xfmrs for a doorbell?

  • mattmia2
    mattmia2 Member Posts: 16,239

    i think those may be replaceable element fuses and it looks like the link says "10"

  • TheUpNorthState88
    TheUpNorthState88 Member Posts: 106

    You are correct, this area was the subject of another post last year. My doorbell transformer is at the front of the house.

    The second one (on the bottom) is not live. I put my non contact tester near it and nothing, other one, loud beeps.

    Lifelong Michigander

    -Willie

  • HydronicMike
    HydronicMike Member Posts: 312

    I think you’re way underfired. The old boiler looks beautiful.

    TheUpNorthState88
  • EdTheHeaterMan
    EdTheHeaterMan Member Posts: 11,859
    edited February 12

    As I see your setup, you have old cloth-insulated wiring for both the line voltage and the low-voltage wiring. There was nothing wrong with that when it was installed, and you can also use 14-gauge wiring for the new control wiring to keep the look original. Any electrician will certainly want to remove and replace all the wiring

    The fuse box can be replaced with a standard 15-amp switch in a standard junction box. The 15-amp breaker in your new circuit breaker panel is all you need for the dedicated circuit.

    The only 120 VAC item in your setup is the transformer. It does not even draw 5 amps, so the 15-amp breaker and 14-gauge wires from the panel are sufficient.

    Where I think you should change the control strategy is with the 24 VAC transformer. I would replace it with a new one for the reason @mattmia2 mentioned: the wire insulation will likely crumble as soon as you start working with it, and a replacement transformer is not that expensive.

    The next step is to connect all the controls with thermostat wire in series from the transformer R terminal to the thermostat, (red wires) then to the limit(s), and then to the gas valve. From the gas valve, you need a return path back to the transformer C terminal (blue wire).

    Screenshot 2026-02-11 at 8.25.25 PM.jpg

    Other limits could be a spill switch at the draft diverter to open the electric circuit to the gas valve if the chimney ever gets blocked. The burner shuts because the hot exhaust gasses can't exit the building.  You certainly don't want to be breathing that stuff all night and wake up dead the next day.

    That gas valve is not original to the boiler or burner system you have. It is a modern redundant gas valve and has more safety features than the original gas valve and pressure regulators with the pilot safety switch on the wall around the corner from the transformer. So keep that gas valve you have, unless you want to upgrade to electronic ignition. 

    Screenshot 2026-02-11 at 8.59.58 PM.png

    Depending on the size of the pilot that may save you a little on your annual gas bill but only about $20.00 to $40.00 per year if it has a large flame pilot burner this is the kit for that Electronic Ignition retrofit kit

    Your electrician may not want to get involved with the old boiler to install that kit so think about before you buy.  You will need a gas heat guy that isn’t afraid of old stuff. 

    @EBEBRATT-Ed has a concern about your statement about the Honeywell high limit control being disconnected.  Do you know for sure that the control no longer shuts off the burner?  If that is true, then you need to add some kind of high limit control to protect the boiler from overheating and causing a catastrophic failure.  That boiler is of the age that those things happened on a regular basis when it was installed, and your not having a proper high limit can cause you to end up as a newspaper story like these:

    Screenshot 2026-02-11 at 8.30.45 PM.png


    December 1933

    Screenshot 2026-02-11 at 8.39.47 PM.png

    January 1933

    Screenshot 2026-02-11 at 8.38.26 PM.png

    December 1932

    Edward Young Retired

    After you make that expensive repair and you still have the same problem, What will you check next?

    TheUpNorthState88
  • EBEBRATT-Ed
    EBEBRATT-Ed Member Posts: 19,987

    @mattmia2

    switching the neutral which they did in the old days and it is still legal to do that as long as you open the hot with the same hand movement..

    Some old jobs I have seen had fuses in both the hot and the neutral wires.

    mattmia2
  • mattmia2
    mattmia2 Member Posts: 16,239

    switching the neutral is legal if it is interlocked. fusing it is not.

  • TheUpNorthState88
    TheUpNorthState88 Member Posts: 106
    edited February 12

    @EdTheHeaterMan


    Thank you Ed for that wonderful explanation and warnings! Now I do want to expand further on the whole boiler explosion thing. Because from what I read and even Dan’s videos and books, that was always a steam boiler issue. My system is gravity hot water connected to my Honeywell Heat Generator no. 1 mercury seal and open to the atmosphere at my attic expansion tank. My attic setup has a sink that just drains into the main plumbing stack. Isn’t that why “the wealthy people installed gravity systems” according to Dans video/books? The people who built my house were said wealthy people for sure as my house is on the grandiose side.

    The hottest my boiler water temps gets on the coldest day, which was the polar vortex we all just dealt with is 190°. That old aquastat tops out at 200°. It’s worth me doing a little experiment this weekend and turning it down to 160° just to see if it shuts my boiler off and it’s some weird power setup that doesn’t set off my non-contact meter.

    In the photo below, my water supply line is connected as I had topped off the system with water. Right now, those pipes are disconnected and the system could relieve itself into the sink. I also feel like this is where my system gets rid of air. As only one of my rads (bathroom one just below this area) on occasion will have just a tad bit of air, rad still gets fully hot. When I did top this off two seasons ago, when I disconnected the tube an air lock released and a bunch of air came flowing out. It actually startled the hell out of me because I wasn’t expecting it. 😂

    IMG_3249.jpeg

    Lifelong Michigander

    -Willie

    HVACNUT
  • TheUpNorthState88
    TheUpNorthState88 Member Posts: 106

    Here’s where things get weird too. So in my other comment, remember I said only the top one has juice. See the picture below. The wire runs up to that bundled coil up in the ceiling in photo 1. Still active. It literally connects to nothing. I’m going to at least cap that off. It’s just me so it’s not like anyone would be monkeying around in my basement.


    in the second zoomed in photo, that black cloth wiring coming out that old junction box is completely dead. It seems that the current BX replaced that. My system is such a mystery on what the dead men did. And the fact I was able to get my Google Nest to work, without touching anything down in the basement has me just as talented as them with magic tricks. 😂


    IMG_4455.jpeg IMG_4460.jpeg

    Lifelong Michigander

    -Willie

  • 109A_5
    109A_5 Member Posts: 3,773

    I guess my question is with the wiring update, does that include all the boiler's wiring or just the 120 VAC side of the boiler's control wiring ?

    As far as updating the boiler's wiring, sure why not ? However, the way I see it, you may need the right person to do it. Some skills above and beyond that of a residential Electrician may be needed.

    I would not trust a non-contact tester to be reliable on 24 VAC circuits especially ones that are floating (not grounded on one side of the transformer's secondary).

    How does the thermostat's wiring make its way to the boiler's wiring ? Not really seeing it.

    An example of the right person to do the work. This picture from one of your other threads, these connections may need to be un-soldered then the new wires soldered, I don't see any screw terminals. Maybe the screws are on the back side, however I bet the Mercury switch wires connect on the back side.

    image.png
    National - U.S. Gas Boiler 45+ Years Old
    Steam 300 SQ. FT. - EDR 347
    One Pipe System
  • Jamie Hall
    Jamie Hall Member Posts: 27,136

    That bundle of white wire hanging from the ceiling looks suspiciously like old telephone wiring. Wonder what it is… or was…

    Br. Jamie, osb
    Building superintendent/caretaker, 7200 sq. ft. historic house museum with dependencies in New England
  • mattmia2
    mattmia2 Member Posts: 16,239

    check with a real meter, non contact voltage testers have plenty of false positives and false negatives.

    is this the system with a patch on the vent that looks like it used to have a stack control for an oil burner? if this once had an oil burner it would have been reworked from that.

    it was very common to have an xfmr to provide power to dial lights for phones(i think that was not 24vac though).

    i think there are screw terminals behind the giant insulation of that old cloth and rubber wire in the front

  • EdTheHeaterMan
    EdTheHeaterMan Member Posts: 11,859

    This does not relieve you from having a high limit. It was the code when the gas burners were installed and it is code today!

    "from what I read and even Dan’s videos and books, that was always a steam boiler issue."

    That is all well and good, but I have witnessed a gas furnace with a runaway gas valve.  I got a call from an absentee customer that his vacation home in Avalon NJ, had a gas bill that seemed a little high.  After getting the key from the real estate office I entered the home to find that it was about 92° inside. (outside was 35°)  there were candles that had melted over and the electric switch would not turn off the gas.  That valve was stuck open and the burner was at a full tilt 110,000 BTU flame inside.  

    Now think about that happening to your gas valve, which is similar to the one in my example above.  Your gravity hot water boiler might turn into a steam boiler in such a case. How does that pan out with all that mercury in that Honeywell No. 1 device work in that scenario?   

    Of course that would not be solved by a high limit control, but if the thermostat wire happened to get a staple or nail to cut thru the insulation and caused the electricity to keep the gas valve open, even after the room temperature increased above the set point, you could experience that same hot water boiler making steam.  Your high limit would prevent that!   That is the reason for the high limit.  

    I also had a prospective customer in Stone Harbor, NJ with a hot water boiler that made steam.  It blew out a 12” x 14” piece of cast iron that blasted thru the steel covering and made a 3” deep impression in the boiler room wall made of cinder block.  I wanted them to purchase a new oil burner to retrofit their 50+ year old hot water boiler. That cost half as mu h as a replacement boiler.  Four weeks later I got a call from that customer asking if it could be fixed. And could I put in that oil burner job.  

    With half of the end section of the boiler missing, they needed to get the new boiler so another plumber got that job.  If he only decided one week sooner, he could have saved $$$ because my replacement oil burner job includes a new combustion chamber, new barometric draft regulator, new thermostat and new boiler operating and limit controls. Basically a new boiler operating system installed in that old boiler (like your old boiler).  The reason for the exploding boiler was a control issue and a plugged relief valve. That would have been solved with the work I would have done.   So that was never a customer of mine. 

    Sincerely

    ED Young

    PS:

    None of the explosions in the three 1932-33 stories above were steam boilers. The first was a furnace and the second and third were water boilers, LIKE YOU HAVE.

    Those stories were from this book HeatingHelp.com/documents that had 30 or more boiler explosions listed. One story listed there were 5 explosions in the same week, two of those were in the same town. You have an old boiler and your want to keep it. make it safe to keep!

    Edward Young Retired

    After you make that expensive repair and you still have the same problem, What will you check next?

    Larry WeingartenTheUpNorthState88mattmia2bburd
  • TheUpNorthState88
    TheUpNorthState88 Member Posts: 106

    @EdTheHeaterMan

    Ok so the “High limit switch” isn’t the same as “high pressures” leading to an explosion. I was confusing the two. I have set the experiment, I turned the Honeywell down to 160°. I’ll see what it does during the evening heating cycle.

    Thank you.

    Lifelong Michigander

    -Willie

  • EdTheHeaterMan
    EdTheHeaterMan Member Posts: 11,859

    You can do the experiment by turning the thermostat uo to call for heat right now. the burner should start. Then you lower the Aquastat as far as you can, and the burner should stop. If that test does not work, then you may need to wait for the boiler temperature to increase and see when it stops. If the boiler temperature goes above the Honeywell Aquastat setting by more than 10° and the burner continues to operate, then that High Limit is disconnected. That is DANGEROUS!!!

    Also, a water boiler does not usually have a pressure limit control. Do you believe that your have a pressure switch? Can you show me what you believe is the pressure switch?

    Screenshot 2026-02-12 at 3.24.44 PM.png

    You do have one switch that can be disconnected. It is the BASO switch. BASO is a brand name for the gas pilot safety switch. That switch is no longer connected to the pilot because that safety device is included in your upgraded Redundant Gas Valve. The old gas valve and pressure regulator gas train was replaced some time ago with a modern redundant gas valve that is designed to turn off the pilot gas if the flame goes out. The old Gas Train would allow the pilot gas to continue if the flame blows out. That was not a problem when that burner was installed but it will not pass code today. Since you already have the better gas valve you no longer need the BASO switch.

    Screenshot 2026-02-12 at 3.45.49 PM.png

    Edward Young Retired

    After you make that expensive repair and you still have the same problem, What will you check next?

  • TheUpNorthState88
    TheUpNorthState88 Member Posts: 106
    edited February 12

    @EdTheHeaterMan


    Well! I am fully safe. It’s working! It shuts off at the 20° mark. The Honeywell was set to 150° and the water was 170°. I am ecstatic it proved me wrong. Which means this aquastat is just as durable and reliable as the boiler itself.

    Here’s the video of it in action. 😃



    Thank you, Ed!

    Lifelong Michigander

    -Willie

    bburd