Threading options for 2-1/2 and 3" iron pipe?
Hi everyone. Had a search but not much turned up. I can find hand and electric threaders for upto 2" everywhere, But what about further up? Most hopeful thing I've found here, is that a dead man once hand-threaded an 8" main aparrently. So assuming this guy is built like a cigarette machine, 3-4" is possible by hand, though tough?
What are my options? Only need 2-1/2" and 3". Don't need to thread anything in-situ. BTW this is not for steam, it's thermosyphoned water. Need to make a main riser in an overhead system. Don't need to make 1000s of threads, this is a one off job. Before you say call a guy, I'm kinda on my own with this...
I CAN probably get by, by getting someone else to do the 3" stuff, but there's a fair bit of 2.5" threading. thanks.
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You can always pre-threaded. Some of the local supply places might be willing to thread pipe for you. But lots of the places will only do up to 2 in
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Ebay.
Trying to squeeze the best out of a Weil-McLain JB-5 running a 1912 1 pipe system.0 -
anything is possible if you trade enough force for distance
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You have a few choices.
A. We own and use a Ridgid 141 with adjustable jaws that threads 2-1/2" pipe through 4" pipe. We power the threader with our Ridgid 700 power driver with an adapter. The tools are very heavy and messy to use. These tools can be used with a stand or if needed can be used in place (overhead, in a pipe chase, etc.) Very labor intensive, but gets the job done. The threaded fittings are expensive.
B. We also own and use our Mega Press tool. Much cleaner, faster and easier to use. Some Plumbing suppliers will rent them to contractors. Needless to say this was a big investment, but it paid for itself after about one year. The fittings are very expensive and can be difficult to get in some areas.
C. Sometimes (especially with steel pipe larger than four inch) we hire a certified welder. Welding is not fast and is very labor intensive. The welded fittings and pipe are much less expensive than threaded fittings and pipe.
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welding or copper. this doesn't sound like an application where you need steel.
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Cheaper to get it cut, reamed & threaded by a pre-fab shop & shipped to you or pick it up if nearby. Where are u located? I have two places in NY. Mad Dog
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I have a welder, "MIG" without gas and flux core thing. Not the best tool for the job:-( I have another project that will require a real MIG welder next year, so I have considered it.
You can't butt-weld the back of a pipe in-situ if its close to a wall (even with the same clearence to swing a 90, well not easyly). So I think I'd need lots of unions/flanges.It could work, though the space is tight.
Copper is 3 times the price here. Iron pipe is cheap and my labor is free.Thanks it looks like the Ridgid 141 is the way to go. I've seen the head on hire for a week at a somewhat reasonable cost. Think the hand crank is probably ok for me. Initialy I was under the impression you had to use the power driver adding more cost.
"anything is possible if you trade enough force for distance" very true.
I will look into pre-threading/outsourcing. May end up doing both because I'll get a length wrong and have to re-do.
I much prefer if I've got the tools and eBay-used-items are more my price range. But I assume the dies or die-head-cutters are going to be shot. It's a bit hard to tell in pictures, so new heads are on the list too, unless I'm very very lucky. I've got time, the project is a bit way off yet as I still need to rebuild the chimney.
I'm in a place of quiet desperation called England, but thanks for the offer. I need BSPT instead of tapered NPT, so will have to source local. Here we have to contend with the metric system, even for standard/imperial 3" BSPT, its "DN80" now to make it confusing.
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On a positive note, my 141 dies were changed about twenty years ago, only because one of my guys thought they were problematic. The tool is almost forty years old. In other words, the dies last a long time if you take care of them.
You mentioned one of the pipes is close to a wall. This may be a problem for something like the 141. Might be easier to weld a slip on flange to the pipe and work from there. I am not familiar with MIG welders with steel pipe. My welder does pipe welding with stick welding (steel and stainless).
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Not sure if this helps but maybe using schedule 20 steel with Victaulic fittings.
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Mr. Slug,
The Victaulic flange clamps are easy to install as long as you have the rubber gaskets lubed up with their lubricant or Vaseline. If you have to install a vertical riser you will need to secure the Victaulic pipe with their pipe securing clamps/parts as they will be very easy use.
They also have Victaulic groove pipe to thread adapters of all sorts and threads that are easy to use.
You would need to rent or buy a Victaulic pipe groover for the various pipe joints/elbows or have it done by the Victaulic reseller for you.
The Victaulic people have worldwide representation and you can search their home page to see who and where they have reseller representatives in England.
Having installed 2 inch Victaulic pipe and Victaulic clamps and hung by hand in a mine roof for long distance compressed air supply I can tell you it is very easy to work with and the installation will go much faster than what you are contemplating by using the Victaulic to pipe thread adapters.
VicEuro@victaulic.com
United Kingdom
Units B1 & B2
Cockerell Close off Gunnels Wood Road
Stevenage, Hertfordshire
SG1 2NB
Telephone +44 1438 310 690
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with planning you can tack the part that is against the wall in place then remove it to finish weld it and plan your in in situ welds where you have room. remember to allow for expansion too.
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Wasn't there some issue with using Victaulic with hot water posted here some time ago?
Trying to squeeze the best out of a Weil-McLain JB-5 running a 1912 1 pipe system.0 -
Vic is fine with HW as long as you stay under 190 or so. There are gaskets now are rated at 250. Don't believe that they will not last at that te,mp.
@mR_Slug believe me 1 thread with the hand ratchet and you will wish you never tried that. They are extremely slow. I would bet 20 min to cut a 2 1/2 inch thread …..if you don't stop.
We have Taylor Rental in my area (MA) that rents the Ridgid 141 and a 700 to drive it. You would also need a vise large enough to hold the pipe.
I threaded a lot of 2 1/2-4".
Best way is to draw a line around the pipe with a welders 'Wrap around" and use a porta band to cut the pipe. With a little practice you can cut straight.
Don't even think about using the 4" cutter, it will kill you.
The 141 can be driven off a 700 with the adapter or of a ridgid 300 or any other pipe machine with a drive shaft.
The best way to drive it is with the short drive shaft close coupled to the Ridgid 300. That takes the least effort.
But it depends on how much you have to do. Having a pipe shop or a supply house cut and thread for you is an option if you can measure well
Vic is a better option for water but take your wallet with you and your bank account the fittings are $$$$$$
You can order pipe that is already grooved from a supply house.
You don't want a typical Plumbing Supply. You need a supply house that sells PVF (pipe valves and fittings)
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England. I think.
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Most of the guys that gave you advice or answered your question have threaded everything from 1/8" through 4", including "Vic" fittings, as have I. Threading steel pipe up through 2" is just part of a boiler install. Threading 2.5" through 4" is not for the faint of heart, nor is it a job we all loved to do. Unless you are going to thread a lot of pipe over 2" I would recommend that you find a shop or pipe supplier to thread the few pieces you need. Don't waste your money or time buying the large threading tools. Time is money, and hand threading anything over 2" takes a lot of time, muscle and patience.
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I got two milk crates full of dies, a few ratchets, a less-than-new tripod, and no fewer than two 141s for what worked out to about 10¢/lb from the local Craigslist.
I've hand-threaded 4" in the past. Not something I'd do for money, but I would probably do it for Grandma's boiler if time wasn't critical.
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When I was doing it, anything over two inches was welded. It was just too labor-intensive to thread a big four-inch joint just to have to pull it apart or weld it when a thread was there.
If it's water? Use copper and pro-press or solder the joints.
You can also look into using Victaulic or Gruvlok fittings with a roll groover.
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The summer of 1987... on Rikers Island Correctional Facility in the East River, I spent 8 or 9 weeks cutting & threading 2" Galvanized pipe & Hack sawing 1 1/2" Kindorf racks and 3/8" threaded rod by hand in the blazing sun & rain... My Plumbing foreman, Joey Davis (RIP), was a real Hard-A-- that tried to break every Apprentice they gave him.
I knew the shop had many Ridgid 300 electric threading machines, but I didn't say a peep & apparently the shop weren't complaining how long it was taking...I started that job with 16" biceps & by end of the summer they were 17 1/2"... (yes, back then, we were always comparing Arm size ..it was a status symbol....ha ha). Mad Dog
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The two trades I never argue with are pipe fitters and masons.
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Many complain about the labor involved in welding and it is significant. But so is threading anything larger than 2".
If you have two guy one fitting and one welding you can move along pretty well. We did a High pressure steam job where we welded the 3" steam supply and threaded the 2 1/2" condensate .
The reason was at that time we had 1 welder and 1 welding machine and had to get the job done.
Using a Ridgid 300 to thread 2 1/2-4" is a lot easier with the close coupled drive shaft, it goes a lot quicker than using a 700 or the long drive shaft.
I was told that the way Victaulic & Groovelock price there fittings is they figure how much a welded job would cost and adjust there fitting prices to be a little less than that.
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Not heard of Victaulic fittings. Clever idea. I think I'd need the 250, the 190max is too close to the 180/170/160 temps from the boiler stove. But quite expensive.
With the threader I can make all the pipes on the floor and then musscle it in. The weld option is interesting but I just think its going to require much more planning to install. Not saying a master welder would find it hard, just that I would.
ScottSecor, Interesting about the longivity of the dies. I guess on average, in the second-hand market, im going to get one with 50% wear, (half good dies, half worn dies).
There is one local to me but it looks a bit deralict. What you think?, going to have to get better pic of dies. It's the closest and coincedently the cheapest. Think its missing the loop-hook for the machine. https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/302675127404
EBEBRATT-Ed Yeah it does look very slow. In the traning videos they don't show that part very long, cut to the pipe machine quicky. 3" is the max I need to cut. I just had a look at my 'big' cutter and 2.5" is doubtful, so the 4" cutter must be huge. Thanks
Don't think I've got anything to mount it to. You need the fine motor control of the pipe machine. You need to be able to slow it down properly. May be the used market + hope or rental for a 300.
retiredguy, You do make a good point. As others have said too, pre-threaed may be better,
I'm kinda interested in cutting my own, but it does look like the "fun" part of cutting a 3" thread is quickly outweighed by the "burn" part in the bicept.
Mad Dog_2 A day or two of threading is a job, but 9 weeks in blazing sun and rain? Sounds like you had a harder time than the prisioners.
Thing is with welding, say you make a mistake and have to cut a pipe shorter. An angel grinder with cutting disc will do the job, but how do you get a true 90, in a tight space? If I was a very experienced welder I think I'd give it a go, but With threads can unthread, recut and rethread.
Think I read somewhere that x-pando or some special dope was recommended on > 2"? Thanks everyone.
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Will work for Beer
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that's how my uncles and cousins did stuff. and they did better drinking all day than many supposed professionals do now.
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with welding what you'd do is put pieces together and make just a tack weld in a spot or 2 at each joint in place until you fit the whole thing, then you'd think about what you can finish weld in place and what you can maneuver in and out in one piece and you'd cut the tack welds where you can make your finish welds in place. then you'd take your subassemblies outside or to a work area and make the finish welds on those joints, put then back in place, and weld them together.
you can buy weld fittings and weld to the fitting rather than mitering or bending the pipe.
you can also buy pre threaded nipples and threaded fittings and mix and match with welded parts.
watch someone make custom exhaust systems, it is the same idea but heavier.
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Nah..Went home at night, had a Tan George Hamilton would envy & got jacked...any day on this side of the bars is always better than a great day behind em! Mad Dog
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