Burner technicians -what’s going on in this industry?
I’ve always taken care of my boiler tune ups myself- for decades. I’ve gotten older and my hands have arthritis so last year in January of 2024 I decided to sign up with an established well know oil company in the area for their automatic delivery and annual tune up which includes emergency burner 24/7 no heat situations which as I get older, I will admit is appealing to have somebody on call if I need emergency service.
Their first tune up in February 2024 it was a younger guy. I know they are learning and don’t have decades of knowledge. I get it. But he didn’t have the correct nozzles for my Riello. So he used a different one with a different firing rate and instead of setting the pump pressure to account for the different firing rate of the different nozzle with a pressure gauge he used his combustion analyzer as a best guess. This also resulted in him adjusting the air shutter.
He also installed the baffles into the boiler incorrectly and afterwards it generally was running loud and hard startup bang - so not like it used to.
So in April, I called them back and they sent out one of their “senior “ Technicians to put the correct nozzle in and set the pump pressure with the gauge and correct the baffles and air shutter.
I told the company I don’t want any more young guys working on my equipment.
So for this year‘s annual tuneup I requested they send the same senior technician out that came to fix the younger guys problems, but of course he retired and moved to Florida so they told me they would send another “senior” technician with 35 years experience.
Well, as it turns out he didn’t replace the pump strainer and didn’t do an efficiency test with the combustion analyzer. All he did was change the nozzle, looked inside to see if it needed to be vacuumed, and replaced the spin on filter.
What’s worse is he lied right to my face when I asked him What the combustion numbers were. He told me it’s running great 86% efficiency.
I have an extensive home security system with cameras in the basement so I saw it all with my own eyes.
I decided not to call him on his lie because I have enough stress in my life and I didn’t wanna get into an argument with the guy so I said thank you and sent him on his way.
What’s going on with the industry? I remember the days when guys cared about their work and were thorough and did a good job. Now it seems like you get a young guy that knows nothing about nothing or a senior guy that is washed up with a bad back and tired of the trade. I’ve decided to go back to will call oil deliveries and doing my tuneups myself. I do a better job.
Comments
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It sounds like you are blaming the younger guys for this issue, but they are just doing what they were trained (or not trained) to do. The fault lies in that company's management.
At my mother's house the oil supplier's contracted maintenance consisted of something but I don't know what. I never saw a combustion report and I don't think they spent enough time to clean or check very much.
I found another company that is HVAC but not oil delivery and I pay them to do a good cleaning and nozzle replacement.
I'm not saying all oil companies have this problem, @EdTheHeaterMan , but this one did.
NJ Steam Homeowner.
Free NJ and remote steam advice: https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/new-jersey-steam-help/
See my sight glass boiler videos: https://bit.ly/3sZW1el0 -
Common sense thinking should prevail though. A skilled tech should know enough to use a pressure gauge for setting pressure. Not how he was trained. They’re not mechanically inclined it seems. Old timers figured things out on their own and didn’t follow textbook teachings.
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The end has been coming for the last 15 years at least.
Oil burner techs have always been at the bottom of the tier.
And I say that with regret. I started out as an oil tech 53 years ago and still have my license. I moved on to other things.
The average age of technicians, plumbers, electricians etc is around 60 years old.
Many of the trade schools have closed and junior highs and high schools closed their shops years ago.
Commercials about "plumbers butt" jokes etc has demeaned the trades. The media has fostered this and the trades and trade schools are looked down on.
I used to teach at the local union hall.
I gave up years ago. The new techs are not interested in learning prefering to google the answers
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The man is 100% correct. In the last 40 years there has been a precipitous decline in kids going in to the trades. They, and I were discouraged from learning a trade. My nice enough HS guidance counselor in 1984:
"Matty Boy, you HAVE to go to College! Why do you wanna get your hands dirty??" The suburban parents bought in to this too. Plumbing, electrical & skilled trades Vo-tech schools closed w
Or shifted to "IT" training. That's why we have a dearth of well techs, period, irrespective of age. Mad Dog
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This is speculation, @Northuupthere, but I think you are seeing a combination of at least two things: first, a rather unfortunate combination of the average consumer (not you!) demanding the lowest possible cost for service and parts and whatever, driving companies (or some individuals) to cut corners — but that combined with many younger people not being accustomed to equipment and systems which actually need to be adjusted and tuned. Their world is almost entirely "plug and play" computer controlled wizardry which, it is correct to say, either works or doesn't work — and if it doesn't work, you throw it out and plug in a new one.
In the automotive business, that's referred to as firing the parts cannon, and is now normal — it's rare to find a mechanic who can actually find the cause of a problem and fix it.
Br. Jamie, osb
Building superintendent/caretaker, 7200 sq. ft. historic house museum with dependencies in New England2 -
Unfortunately common sense went out the door a long time ago.
Getting someone to show up every morning is difficult. Most of today's techs have no desire to learn or work.
Did you call the contractor back and inform him / her of what was / wasn't done?
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Well as you said, he is not an old timer yet, he is a kid
NJ Steam Homeowner.
Free NJ and remote steam advice: https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/new-jersey-steam-help/
See my sight glass boiler videos: https://bit.ly/3sZW1el0 -
In all fairness to "the kid" (18? 19? 20? 26? Have to define kid) In Long Island and NYC Riello oil and gas guns are relatively kind rare to see. 25-30 yrs ago many of the oil men in their 50s & 60s didn't have any training on them. They are the Finest Oil Burners out there, but they are very finicky to set up and you REALLY need some factory training. Mad Dog
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I'm in the process of hiring a high school student for the summer. (Commerical Refrigeration) He just wants to see if it's what he wants.
After getting the pricing for extra workman's comp and liability insurance it's not worth it but I'm a gambler so I'll do it.
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I agree that this is a very unfortunate trend. I went to college and studied engineering, but the reason I wanted to be an engineer is that I grew up with an interest in taking things apart, figuring out how they worked, fixing them when needed, and building stuff with my hands. My high school friend had a garage full of woodworking tools, and after school I'd go over to his house and we'd build stuff. He went on to become a naval architect/engineer, and I became a mechanical/aerospace engineer.
But I never lost my interest in building stuff and working with my hands. Often I find that more enjoyable than desk engineering. I've rehabbed houses, built furniture, restored motorcycles, etc.
And so I find it sad and unfortunate that our society has not learned to value the manual trades as much as "white collar" work. I have not been to Germany, but from what I've read, Germany has a much better system for training in the manual trades, and less white collar snobbery. There is a demanding apprentice system for tradespeople, and when you finish, you really know your stuff. And tradespeople are respected.
So I think it's unfortunate that we don't have a similar system of training in all trades, and a similar respect for and appreciation of tradespeople, and a promotion of that career path in high school guidance counseling. Unfortunately it would take a huge cultural change here that I don't see happening any time soon.
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Trade unions have always been a liberal cornerstone. Has that changed?
Bryant 245-8, 430k btu, 2-pipe steam in a 1930s 6-unit 1-story apt building in the NM mountains. 26 radiators 3800sqf
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$$$ is the root of…
In Europe most folks live a fairly lean lifestyle. They stay in the same home for generations. The homes are built to last for generations. The young people are not so attracted to the easy money lure. Their quest is not to be a reality star, influencer, manipulate money for a living without any product being developed, game the system, on and on.
The crafts and trades are more alive and carrying on in other places in the world.
I'm not sure how we turn the tide here? Even with some high wage offerings, many just don't want to get dirty, be labeled as a blue collar worker.
More and more, even high ticket items are throwaway. We don't repair like we used to.
But we need to keep spreading the message of what the trades have to offer in addition to the $$.
Bob "hot rod" Rohr
trainer for Caleffi NA
Living the hydronic dream
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When I started there were no cell phones, computers, fax machines or beepers.
You went to the job and were literally on your own. No one could help you. You stayed and figured it out or at the very least you took it as far as you could possibly go. That is how I learned to troubleshoot. If the shop needed to get ahold of you, they called the customer land line.
No googling, no asking just you. That is how you learn.
Computer and cell phones and tablets are great, but they have ruined some things.
I taught at the union hall for years then gave up.
All they want to do when they get stuck with a problem is avoid thinking and avoid using their brain.
Google the answer, call another tech, call tech support, call the boss, their mother, sister, wife or friend.
The last year I taught I had 2 out of 10 that were interested in learning. It isn't about money the union paid well to teach. It takes some effort to put a class together on what you will teach, make up tests and quizzes, make copies etc.
The ones that teach do it to give back and because they like the business.
I had enough. Did it for 6 years.
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Europe is feeling the skilled labor crunch as well.
Bryant 245-8, 430k btu, 2-pipe steam in a 1930s 6-unit 1-story apt building in the NM mountains. 26 radiators 3800sqf
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I graduated southside high school in Rockville in 1973 we had available to us
auto mechanics, electronic, woodworking, printing, cooking, along host of others, and none of them are available to the kids today
at least you an idea of what you and what you didn’t.
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The oil companies can't afford to keep the good techs. They cost them money and it's not always the case that their oil sales make up the difference and training. There are few if any training centers and it's expensive to enroll. It's been a few years, but every time I removed an old clunker with a tankless and replaced it with a nice G115 and an indirect we lost a big portion of that customers oil sales. At the end of my service career I had to carry a fixed pricing book in order to try and make up the difference. I was no longer able to have the conversations with customers who were curious about their systems and potential up grades. We lost to gas and discount oil. I got bored and tired.
Miss Hall's School service mechanic, greenhouse manager, teacher, dog walker and designated driver
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Out here in the West the FFA is still very common in public schools, teaching welding, mechanics, animal husbandry etc. My 16 year old, daughter, is welding already.
Bryant 245-8, 430k btu, 2-pipe steam in a 1930s 6-unit 1-story apt building in the NM mountains. 26 radiators 3800sqf
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Entering the trade in 1985, I too did not have a cell phone, no fixes et cetera. My greatest teacher of the Plumbing trade was Jimmy O' Brien (RIP asbestosis) born in Dublin early 1940s. When he was 12, he went to live with an Irish Master Plumbers Family and started an Apprenticeship program. He came to NYC at age 19 and was light years ahead of the other guys in the Apprenticeship program here.
Jimmy had an outstanding vocabulary & intellect & came across as college educated. This is what we need Here...NOW..Mad Dog
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There's a very on-topic article in today's NY Times titled "Why Some Schools are Rethinking 'College for All.'"
The nut of the article is that teachers, guidance counsellors, etc, are finally waking up to the obvious fact that some kids aren't interested in desk jobs and have aptitudes and talents that traditional schooling doesn't encourage or develop.
One of the comments written by a NY Times reader in response to the article was very relevant to this discussion. He wrote:
"My Gen Z son taught my wife and me (with seventeen years of post-secondary education between us) a thing or two about the new economy. After two years of university in the sciences, he decided to pursue a trade. My wife and I were skeptical, but he presented a compelling business plan so we agreed.He finished trade school at 22, was immediately hired by the company where he did his co-op, and makes more money than most of the university classmates he left behind. After one year, he got an 8% raise. He has a terrific apartment all to himself, owns a nice car, has no debt, has tens of thousands of dollars in savings, and will soon be able to buy a house. There is also no danger that his job will one day disappear due to AI.The world has changed, and there are many great opportunities for kids that do not involve a four-year college degree."
Hopefully more parents will realize the world is changing, and that there is a lot of opportunity available for kids who have an aptitude for the trades.
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I also encourage African Americans & Latinos & women from the poor neighborhoods & the projects to come in to our trade for many years and they are wisely getting on board and making great things happen for them in their Familes. Mad Dog
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Interestingly, these same so called "established well know oil company in the area " quoted from post that lack the basic ability to annually service the oil burner, also claim they can install new boilers / burners with expertise - smh
I doubt trained service in steam heat / burner maintenance is given more than an hour or two in the education curriculum these days. The industry is about dead with a few greying older guys remaining with proper knowledge that will die with them - RIP
Regards,
RTW
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Hi @Northuupthere , It would take time, but maybe there is a work-around. Do you have access to a younger person who you could teach to do your boiler work? Get them started on yours. Pay them. Encourage them to learn from others. You would be handing them a career path if they wanted. 🤔
Yours, Larry
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Yes
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I see three problems in the trades today.
- Trades are considered a "second or third class" path for younger students to take. Mad Dog 2 and jesmed1 have touched on this issue above.
- Young people (not all to be sure) do not see any path but to go to a 4- year college then be dissatisfied when they graduate… if they graduate.
- Union shops are no better off than non-union shops. I have many union friends as well as business owners that complain about the "quality" of the apprentices coming in.
I've been in the HVAC industry since 1966. Started out as a "go-fer" for a heating/plumbing 1 man shop. Went to a 2 year college, got an AAS degree in Air Conditioning Technology in 1972. Worked in residential and commercial HVAC and started designing commercial systems. Made good money. Got a city electrician's license in 1978. Retired last year with a good IRA, home paid off and way too many tractors. I would stress that I did all this all on my own there was/is no training opportunities out there… I taught in an apprenticeship program for 4 years that was mirrored after local union shop training. I moved on from that, but the program closed 3 years later. There is no similar program in the area since.
Got a 4 year Mech Eng degree in 1992, then taught as an adjunct professor for 20 years. During that time, I saw the expectations as well as the effort put forth by students decrease. When asked where they thought they would be in 5 or 10 years, the general comment was to develop a dot com company, sell it for billions and retire to Tahiti… nice work if you can get it. Few students had any sort of plan for the future.
What to do?
- Get students involved in trades- in middle school, through high school. What ever happened to wood shop… auto tech… home economics where they learn to balance checkbooks? And it never hurt to learn how to sew and cook…
- Take away the stigma on the trades! A 4-year degree is not for everyone.
- Contractors need to start training in-house. They will not find qualified techs walking the streets.
- Pay the techs based on completed training and quality of work.
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I'm very happy today and so is the young lad I just connected with my old plumbing shop. 23, Associates degree in Business. VG suburban family, not an office guy. He starts at the bottom in the warehouse Monday. Mad Dog
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Kids Gotta bang around in menial jobs sometimes before they see things clearly..I did..Mad Dog
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I doubt it, what makes you think that?
Bryant 245-8, 430k btu, 2-pipe steam in a 1930s 6-unit 1-story apt building in the NM mountains. 26 radiators 3800sqf
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The UA and the local I belong to has been trying hard to up there game in the training area. It used to be that the UA was plumbers & pipefitters only and they looked down on HVAC service and oil burner work. No longer they have embraced it.
I am not sure they have made a lot of progress with it but they are trying.
I have been out of touch since I retired from working and stopped teaching.
I do have a code update class to go to this Saturday to keep my Gasfitters license. (why I keep it I don't know but I can't let it go) but I will try and find out what is happening with training
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We attended the HVAC Tactical Awards at AHR and were in a room of 300+ young people who are passionate about working in the trades and spreading the word. Many of them have large followings on social media and use these tools to educate and get the word out about opportunities in the trades. They are reaching other young people where they are. The awards were for things like "Picture Perfect Install," emphasizing taking pride in the work. Dan Holohan was also honored with a Lifetime Achievement Award. This event sells out each year and is filled with so much enthusiasm for the trades.
In this panel discussion from AHR, HVACR company owners discussed how they are recruiting. They're going to all of the career events at high schools, offering extensive training, and getting creative and recruiting from other industries. One panelist mentioned that he gets a lot of employees from Xerox who do hands-on work fixing copy machines.
And Bryan Orr recently launched The Grit Foundation ( ) with the mission to bridge the skills gap and teach kids the trades through camps.
Forum Moderator
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Kids learn calculus but can't fry an egg. Learn Spanish and then cant speak it, watch sports and play video games on the weekend. There are young people seeing the light thankfully, just not as many as should be. For those in the northeast check out Williamson trade school in Pennsylvania. Free, over hundred percent job placement.
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My life got turned around when my employer sent me and another guy to NEFI. I had absolutely no knowledge of oil burners before then. From there I immersed myself in the trade with a particular interest in steam. Then I found the Dead Mans Steam School. I still have the VCR tapes. Ha! but no VCR to play them on. I heard NEFI closed its doors a while ago.
Miss Hall's School service mechanic, greenhouse manager, teacher, dog walker and designated driver
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This is a generational thing also. When most of us grew up in the trades there were no cell phones, video games, computers. So the kids growing up with those toys (tools) think differently about career choices.
It will change again. Will Al make training obsolete, just ask how to service an oil burner and the answer and a video shows up.
Will it be correct????
Bob "hot rod" Rohr
trainer for Caleffi NA
Living the hydronic dream1 -
I had a different experience. During HS, my father got me a job working for him, cleaning all the bathrooms at night in a 16 story building, taking out the trash, painting, re-lamping light fixtures, unclog toilets, cleaning the old Federal boilers. I loved it.
But the old man insisted I go to college. He said, do you think I like working for "the man"? I am wholly dependent on him, his ability to run his business, his moods…If he says jump, we jump. We have to lick his boots. We have no education and we are limited. We can't go wherever we want. But, if you graduate from college and decide to come back to this, it is YOUR decision. At least you have a choice in the matter and a degree that let's you walk if the situation is't right. Unlike us-we're stuck here.
It's the American dream , really. To have your kids do better than you. So, I don't slam a college education. I am better for it in so many ways and I still clean boilers and unclog toilets. 'Tis my choice.
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I'll never trust AI to give service instructions on any device that could burn my house down. Even if AI does become a training tool, we'll still need pros like you who can correct the AI when it gives wrong answers. Hopefully before any damage gets done!
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LOL. I was going to be an auto mechanic, but my old man said "you're not going to be a grease monkey like your cousin"
Dragged me down to the local community college and signed me up for "Heat and Power".
I started at an Oil Co the first summer out of school and began cleaning boilers.
Ancient Snowmen boilers with 1920s & 1930s Petro oil burners that made more soot than heat. Came home every day looking like a chimney sweep.
A grease monkey wouldn't have been as dirty.
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but you would have got your asbestos from brake and clutch linings instead of furnace cement and aircell
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if you follow the oil tech talk chatter FB it looks like dirty work still?
Bob "hot rod" Rohr
trainer for Caleffi NA
Living the hydronic dream0 -
who is checking the Al answers? Al?
My nieces and nephews would drive around the earth to arrive at the house next door, if that is what google maps told them to do :)
Bob "hot rod" Rohr
trainer for Caleffi NA
Living the hydronic dream3 -
You're talking about the Waze app. That thing will take you through people's kitchens.
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