Welcome! Here are the website rules, as well as some tips for using this forum.
Need to contact us? Visit https://heatinghelp.com/contact-us/.
Click here to Find a Contractor in your area.
If our community has helped you, please consider making a contribution to support this website. Thanks!

Natural gas pressure test

Options
347
347 Member Posts: 151
Hello all,
I have a customer that has an open permit and needs to be closed out. The Town wants a gas pressure test on ALL existing gas piping. Almost all of the gas piping is buried behind Sheetrock walls and ceilings ( some with designer paint work). The pressure test I  did failed. I soaped all accessible fittings and found nothing. I am making an assumption that the leaks are behind the walls. Customer does not want me to open any walls to “maybe” find the leaks. The only way I know off to find gas leaks are pressurize the piping and use some type of leak detector solution on the fittings.
Does anyone have a different method to find leaks in gas piping without search and destroy?
Sorry about such a basic question.
Thank you and
Merry Christmas

Comments

  • dko
    dko Member Posts: 669
    edited December 2023
    Many hard to find leaks ended up being the testing setup. The valve, schrader, gauge, and fittings of your test setup tested?

    There are creative ways to isolate potential areas depending on the gas piping layout using things like jet swet plugs. Inflatable plugs with extensions are available.. Then theres things like ultrasonic leak detectors.. https://superiorsignal.com/products/ultrasonic-instruments/accutrak-vpe-ultrasonic-leak-detector

    no idea about how effective they are. just googled it
    ChrisJ
  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 17,399
    What pressure are you testing at?
    Is the gas to all appliances shut off?

    Like @dko said, check your setup first. Schrader valves cannot be trusted and should have a valve on them or at a minimal a sealed cap with an o ring.

    Single pipe 392sqft system with an EG-40 rated for 325sqft and it's silent and balanced at all times.

  • STEAM DOCTOR
    STEAM DOCTOR Member Posts: 2,593
    And detach all appliances and plug lines. Otherwise, the appliance itself might be leaking 
    rick in Alaska
  • Intplm.
    Intplm. Member Posts: 3,030
    Unhook all the appliances and cap and plug the pipes there.
    This will of course eliminate the exposed areas during the air test.
    Purchase a new gas test setup supplied by a manufacturer to help satisfy any objections that might come up.
    Soap test the exposed areas after the air test passes.


    Zman
  • 347
    347 Member Posts: 151
    Testing at 3 PSI. All appliances are capped, test set up has no leaks.
    One section of piping is isolated, tested that section and pressure gauge dropped.
    I think it's time to open walls?
    Thank you for all the suggestions
  • hot_rod
    hot_rod Member Posts: 27,489
    There are leak detection companies that can find hidden leaks. They may pressurize with a gas that can be "sniffed" with a detector. It may be cheaper than opening walls?
    Bob "hot rod" Rohr
    trainer for Caleffi NA
    Living the hydronic dream
    Zman
  • mattmia2
    mattmia2 Member Posts: 16,854
    If it is all black iron, more pressure will make the leak more noticeable.

    The other option is to cut it apart and isolate the concealed sections and test them separately to find which one is leaking. I had a leak in an area that was exposed that I could smell but was never able to find it with soap, ended up just replacing the oddball collection of fittings and valves that had evolved over the past half century.
  • HomerJSmith
    HomerJSmith Member Posts: 2,779
    3psi for 5 min may be adequate. We test at 15psi for 24+hours. Pressure will vary based upon environment temperature changes. Follow the town's testing requirements as to pressure and time.
    Test on your own with higher pressures over a longer period of time to see if you really have a leak.
    Use a gauge with a range that is close to the pressure you are going to use for the most accurate reading.
    ChrisJ
  • mattmia2
    mattmia2 Member Posts: 16,854
    You want to fix the leak, you don't want to fudge the test so it passes with the leak. Air pressure changes very little within the normal temps you'll find in a building. I suppose expansion and contraction of metal or plastic piping could change more but whenever I have seen pressure change a perceptible amount i had a leak.
    STEVEusaPA
  • Zman
    Zman Member Posts: 7,610
    hot_rod said:

    There are leak detection companies that can find hidden leaks. They may pressurize with a gas that can be "sniffed" with a detector. It may be cheaper than opening walls?

    I work with a company that uses helium and a helium sniffer. I would try that before search and destroy...
    "If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough"
    Albert Einstein
  • 347
    347 Member Posts: 151
    Calling a leak detection company sounds like a good idea.
    Thanks for the help
  • pecmsg
    pecmsg Member Posts: 7,075
    I’ve used Refrigerant in the past!
  • realliveplumber
    realliveplumber Member Posts: 354
    edited December 2023
    What code are you under @347 ?
  • Intplm.
    Intplm. Member Posts: 3,030
    @347
    This is one type of leak detector that you can try. There are others.
    Even Home Depot has one.






    Can you smell approximately where the leak is coming from?
    If you can, try something like this.
    It might equate to fewer wall repairs and save you some $$$$.
  • 347
    347 Member Posts: 151
    The job is located in Town of Oyster Bay Long Island NY. To the best of my knowledge, the town wants a minimum of 3PSI for 15 minutes.
    as of today , it is not holding at all.
    i assume with refrigerant and the “sniffer” I need access to the joints. Trying to avoid that. I know it seems impossible but hoping someone has a different/better way.
    isolating sections would be a very difficult option.
  • SlamDunk
    SlamDunk Member Posts: 1,807
    edited December 2023
    A sniffer for helium, refrigerant, or nitrogen thru small holes drilled into the wall at low, mid and high points, is your least destructive test. But, I would crank up the pressure. We had gas company run a 3/4" line for my last employer. They pressurized to 60psi for 24hrs.
    EBEBRATT-EdIntplm.CLamb
  • mattmia2
    mattmia2 Member Posts: 16,854
    If it is a piping system that can take it you can usually hear it at 50-100 psi.
    SlamDunk
  • EBEBRATT-Ed
    EBEBRATT-Ed Member Posts: 20,207
    I agree with @SlamDunk & @pecmsg Refrigerant and a refrigerant leak detector. Drill some small holes that can be patched. I have had to use refrigerant when soap bubbles would not find the leak. I would test at around 20psi.

    The homeowner is going to have to realize if they want gas there going to have to put up with some damage.

    If it was me, I wouldn't let myself get talked into pulling Gastight in the walls. Can you abandon some gas lines and run the pipes up through a closet?
    PRR
  • SlamDunk
    SlamDunk Member Posts: 1,807
    Dumb question, did you isolate meter?
    kcopprealliveplumber
  • realliveplumber
    realliveplumber Member Posts: 354
    Did you test the system with a manometer at operating pressure?

    It may leak at 3 psi, but not at 7" water column.

    Why are they requiring a test on the entire system?

    Also read the code section, see what the code requires.
  • hot_rod
    hot_rod Member Posts: 27,489
    I've used this company in the past, see if they have a location nearby.
    https://www.americanleakdetection.com/
    Bob "hot rod" Rohr
    trainer for Caleffi NA
    Living the hydronic dream
  • hot_rod
    hot_rod Member Posts: 27,489

    check the gauge and test block, they are known to leak

    Bob "hot rod" Rohr
    trainer for Caleffi NA
    Living the hydronic dream
    rick in Alaska
  • pedmec
    pedmec Member Posts: 1,353

    make sure your lines are capped and gas cocks are opened. if the gas cocks are leaking by it will fool you into thinking you have a leak. you need to pressurize up to the cap

  • ethicalpaul
    ethicalpaul Member Posts: 8,822

    Refrigerant for leak testing? The substance that is supposed to be captured and not vented to the atmosphere?

    NJ Steam Homeowner.
    See my sight glass boiler videos: https://bit.ly/3sZW1el

    Mad Dog_2
  • ethicalpaul
    ethicalpaul Member Posts: 8,822

    I kind of thought all of you licensed refrigerant professionals were supposed to be self-policing as part of your licensing.

    NJ Steam Homeowner.
    See my sight glass boiler videos: https://bit.ly/3sZW1el

  • pecmsg
    pecmsg Member Posts: 7,075

    and I don’t exceed 55 on the LIE!


    for the record that was for a friend that couldn’t find the leak!

    ethicalpaul
  • ethicalpaul
    ethicalpaul Member Posts: 8,822

    Asking for a friend! Gotcha my friend 😅

    NJ Steam Homeowner.
    See my sight glass boiler videos: https://bit.ly/3sZW1el

  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 17,399

    To be honest the few times I've been on the LIE you were lucky to exceed 15.

    Single pipe 392sqft system with an EG-40 rated for 325sqft and it's silent and balanced at all times.

  • Mad Dog_2
    Mad Dog_2 Member Posts: 8,552

    F.B.I. Freon Board of Investigation, they also police Jaywalking, Tags ripped off mattresses and hurt feelings...ha ha. Mad Dog 🐕

  • Mad Dog_2
    Mad Dog_2 Member Posts: 8,552

    L.I.E. stinks, but Montauk Hwy to The Hamptons is worse. Mad Dog 🐕

  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 17,399

    Single pipe 392sqft system with an EG-40 rated for 325sqft and it's silent and balanced at all times.

    Mad Dog_2
  • Mad Dog_2
    Mad Dog_2 Member Posts: 8,552

    The B.Q.E...…ugh..Mad Dog 🐕