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Help us solve this mystery smell!

13

Comments

  • gerry gill
    gerry gill Member Posts: 3,078

    What about the "Blue Monster "tape that was thought to be a problem some time ago?

    Was that a real issue or was that debunked?

    we use Blue Monster on steam on almost every job. No issues.
    gwgillplumbingandheating.com
    Serving Cleveland's eastern suburbs from Cleveland Heights down to Cuyahoga Falls.

    melmel02
  • gerry gill
    gerry gill Member Posts: 3,078
    ive smelled a sweet smell before when refractory was getting directly hit by flame when it was dislodged. Maybe gas pressure to high?
    gwgillplumbingandheating.com
    Serving Cleveland's eastern suburbs from Cleveland Heights down to Cuyahoga Falls.

    melmel02
  • melmel02
    melmel02 Member Posts: 59

    Hopefully no underground leaky tank with the oil pushed inside with the ground water

    We scanned for tanks so hopefully not!
  • Fred
    Fred Member Posts: 8,542
    melmel02 said:

    Fred said:

    Looks like it's piped decently and to the minimum manufacturer's specs. Wonder why there's a pile of debris under the boiler. I'm sure the installer would not have installed the boiler over that. I'm wondering if something nested under there and when the burner kicked on it killed it/them???

    The pile is tapered to the top, like it came from above, but who knows. Either way, we need to get the debris out of there!
    Was this a packaged boiler (assembled at the factory)? With what you said, now I'm wondering if there was some styrofoam or other packing that the installer either forgot to remove or thought might be insulation? It might have melted ???
  • EBEBRATT-Ed
    EBEBRATT-Ed Member Posts: 15,455
    We installed a hot water Peerless a few weeks back. The HO complained of a nasty smell took 3 days for it to dissipate
    melmel02
  • melmel02
    melmel02 Member Posts: 59
    Fred said:

    melmel02 said:

    Fred said:

    Looks like it's piped decently and to the minimum manufacturer's specs. Wonder why there's a pile of debris under the boiler. I'm sure the installer would not have installed the boiler over that. I'm wondering if something nested under there and when the burner kicked on it killed it/them???

    The pile is tapered to the top, like it came from above, but who knows. Either way, we need to get the debris out of there!
    Was this a packaged boiler (assembled at the factory)? With what you said, now I'm wondering if there was some styrofoam or other packing that the installer either forgot to remove or thought might be insulation? It might have melted ???
    I know they had to measure the doors and take one off the hinges to get it in, so I assume it was already assembled. Our plumber was confused by the smell, too, and agreed we need to open it up. Guess we'll find out Tuesday if something is inside. If not then I don't know what to think!
  • nicholas bonham-carter
    nicholas bonham-carter Member Posts: 8,576
    Don’t forget to check the chimney for an animal as well.—NBC
    melmel02
  • Tom_133
    Tom_133 Member Posts: 883
    So I couldn't read through all the posts, so this may have been mentioned, but I ran into this a while back. It was almost an ammonia smell. My situation was a propane leak. I argued up and down it was the cat box, but went in with my meter and it smelled methane which I found to be leaking under the kitchen sink and it detected a propane gas leak. So I searched all over and found the black iron pipe coming into the house had rotted and perforated. My guess is you have a leak that is stinking up the house. I argued it because it wasn't an LP smell, it was that sickly sick ammonia smell. But I was wrong. I would do a leakdown test on the gas, or shut it off outside and run electric heaters for 48 hours and see if it gets better

    Just my thoughts
    Tom
    Montpelier Vt
    ratiomelmel02
  • melmel02
    melmel02 Member Posts: 59
    Tom_133 said:

    So I couldn't read through all the posts, so this may have been mentioned, but I ran into this a while back. It was almost an ammonia smell. My situation was a propane leak. I argued up and down it was the cat box, but went in with my meter and it smelled methane which I found to be leaking under the kitchen sink and it detected a propane gas leak. So I searched all over and found the black iron pipe coming into the house had rotted and perforated. My guess is you have a leak that is stinking up the house. I argued it because it wasn't an LP smell, it was that sickly sick ammonia smell. But I was wrong. I would do a leakdown test on the gas, or shut it off outside and run electric heaters for 48 hours and see if it gets better

    Just my thoughts

    Thank you so much for this insight. We have been worried that maybe it was a gas leak as we just switched the system from oil to gas...and now that you've said this, we realized the main entry point for the gas is directly below the foyer, which is where the smell is the worst! Ugh. We are on the phone with our plumber now and will get it sniffed asap.That would make a ton of sense because this started as soon as they started running the new boiler on gas. And I bet our pipe is rotted, too. Calling the gas company now.
  • Jamie Hall
    Jamie Hall Member Posts: 23,170
    Fred said:

    @melmel02
    Equivalence of Direct Radiation

    to amplify-- it's measured in square feet, and it is the area of a metal sheet which would give off the same heat, with the same source (such as steam) as the radiator in question. It's significant, because particularly with steam systems, you can't use any more heat than that -- and if the boiler is too big, it will just cause problems. There are tables and books for most radiators.

    It does look like a Webster -- at least the valves are -- and so it needs to be run at very low pressures. A pressuretrol isn't going to be able to do that -- you can keep the pressuretrol as a backup safety, but the actual control will need to be a vapourstat. Pricey, but the system will work better and more economically with it.
    Br. Jamie, osb
    Building superintendent/caretaker, 7200 sq. ft. historic house museum with dependencies in New England
  • melmel02
    melmel02 Member Posts: 59
    All right, y'all. Our gas company came out to check and there's no gas leak. At least we don't have to worry about that anymore. He checked all the fittings for all the new work, so we know it's not that. Like everyone else, he said he'd never smelled this particular smell before. He described it as old, dirty mop water. Which makes us wonder if it's the water in the system. Sigh
  • Fred
    Fred Member Posts: 8,542
    Did you say the boiler has been skimmed? If it has, It might be worth doing that again. and then draining the boiler and refilling it.
    melmel02
  • Dan_NJ
    Dan_NJ Member Posts: 247
    Have you taken a sample of the water from the system in something air tight and checked it someplace away from the house? You might need to be away from the concentrated smell for a bit to be able to pick up on it in such a sample.
    melmel02
  • melmel02
    melmel02 Member Posts: 59

    Fred said:

    @melmel02
    Equivalence of Direct Radiation

    to amplify-- it's measured in square feet, and it is the area of a metal sheet which would give off the same heat, with the same source (such as steam) as the radiator in question. It's significant, because particularly with steam systems, you can't use any more heat than that -- and if the boiler is too big, it will just cause problems. There are tables and books for most radiators.

    It does look like a Webster -- at least the valves are -- and so it needs to be run at very low pressures. A pressuretrol isn't going to be able to do that -- you can keep the pressuretrol as a backup safety, but the actual control will need to be a vapourstat. Pricey, but the system will work better and more economically with it.
    We are looking at the Vaporstat, Honeywell #L408J1009...correct? :)
  • melmel02
    melmel02 Member Posts: 59
    Dan_NJ said:

    Have you taken a sample of the water from the system in something air tight and checked it someplace away from the house? You might need to be away from the concentrated smell for a bit to be able to pick up on it in such a sample.

    We were just talking about doing this. We've been trying to find a source outside of the furnace the whole time, but we need to check the water in the system to see if the smell matches.
  • melmel02
    melmel02 Member Posts: 59
    Fred said:

    Did you say the boiler has been skimmed? If it has, It might be worth doing that again. and then draining the boiler and refilling it.

    Going to ask tomorrow!
  • melmel02
    melmel02 Member Posts: 59
    Today's update: we reset the pressure-trol to the recommended settings and the smell in the foyer seems to have reduced (we are going to put in a vapor-stat once it gets here, though). Furnace still has a nasty smell coming from the top of the box (where there's a hole), plumber is coming tomorrow to open it up. Hopefully the mystery will be solved then!
  • melmel02
    melmel02 Member Posts: 59
    THERE WAS A DEAD SQUIRREL INSIDE THE FURNACE
  • melmel02
    melmel02 Member Posts: 59
    It was thoroughly cooked and reeked, and also got mess in all the insulation, so all of that is being replaced. Glad to see we weren't crazy!
  • Canucker
    Canucker Member Posts: 722
    > @melmel02 said:
    > THERE WAS A DEAD SQUIRREL INSIDE THE FURNACE

    @nicholas bonham-carter wins the prize.
    You can have it good, fast or cheap. Pick two
    melmel02
  • Fred
    Fred Member Posts: 8,542
    melmel02 said:

    It was thoroughly cooked and reeked, and also got mess in all the insulation, so all of that is being replaced. Glad to see we weren't crazy!

    Brings back memories!
    melmel02
  • Gordy
    Gordy Member Posts: 9,546
    Had one in my moms water heater flue twice. Made it all the way to the first elbow in the flue pipe.
    melmel02
  • JUGHNE
    JUGHNE Member Posts: 11,042
    Just really a rat with a cute tail!
    melmel02
  • Intplm.
    Intplm. Member Posts: 1,883
    Sorry for the squirrel. Glad you found the problem.
    My cat ended up down the neighbors chimney years ago. Was in there foe a few days. Cat was fine. Used up one of its nine lives.
    melmel02
  • Jellis
    Jellis Member Posts: 228
    I responded to a call for a bad smell once. Found a tech had left a tool in the fire box.
    melmel02
  • luketheplumber
    luketheplumber Member Posts: 149
    yummy!
    I just earned my GED and am looking for a apprenticeship with one of these steam gurus on this site!
    melmel02
  • BobC
    BobC Member Posts: 5,476
    A couple of decades back a neighbor called for service on her 1920's mummy hot water boiler with what had to be the first gas conversion boiler because of a strange smell.

    When the gas company got their they found a large seagull was completely blocking the flue. On real cold days it's not uncommon to see gulls warming themselves ontop of a chimney
    Smith G8-3 with EZ Gas @ 90,000 BTU, Single pipe steam
    Vaporstat with a 12oz cut-out and 4oz cut-in
    3PSI gauge
    melmel02
  • ethicalpaul
    ethicalpaul Member Posts: 5,695
    Nailed it :lol::sunglasses:

    All my money is on dead thing. $0 is on “blue tape”

    NJ Steam Homeowner. See my sight glass boiler videos: https://bit.ly/3sZW1el
    SailahErin Holohan Haskellmelmel02
  • Canucker said:

    > @melmel02 said:

    > THERE WAS A DEAD SQUIRREL INSIDE THE FURNACE



    @nicholas bonham-carter wins the prize.

    I think mr. ratio gets the blue ribbon by a hair. NBC gets runner up.

    Well done, fellas!
    8.33 lbs./gal. x 60 min./hr. x 20°ΔT = 10,000 BTU's/hour

    Two btu per sq ft for degree difference for a slab
    ratiomelmel02
  • Fred
    Fred Member Posts: 8,542
    Fred said:

    I have had a squirrel die in my flue pipe before. Not a pleasant smell at all!

    Don't forget my earlier quote either
    ethicalpaul
  • EBEBRATT-Ed
    EBEBRATT-Ed Member Posts: 15,455
    @Gordy
    probably the same squirrel I found in the water heater flue at my aunt's house.

    I told my cousin, "we need new flue pipe I am going to the hardware store" he said "no way I will just clean it out"

    he did. he regretted it
    ethicalpaulmelmel02
  • melmel02
    melmel02 Member Posts: 59
    The best part of this whole experience has been chatting with you all. We really appreciate the time and expertise, and now we all have a great squirrel story
    Erin Holohan Haskell
  • Dave in QCA
    Dave in QCA Member Posts: 1,785
    I just read the entire thread and found it puzzling and amusing. It will make a great story to tell for many years. "Squirrel Boiler". Oh, but if you want a real laugh, Google NPR Squirrel Cop. It's worth the time to listen.
    Dave in Quad Cities, America
    Weil-McLain 680 with Riello 2-stage burner, December 2012. Firing rate=375MBH Low, 690MBH Hi.
    System = Early Dunham 2-pipe Vacuo-Vapor (inlet and outlet both at bottom of radiators) Traps are Dunham #2 rebuilt w. Barnes-Jones Cage Units, Dunham-Bush 1E, Mepco 1E, and Armstrong TS-2. All valves haveTunstall orifices sized at 8 oz.
    Current connected load EDR= 1,259 sq ft, Original system EDR = 2,100 sq ft Vaporstat, 13 oz cutout, 4 oz cutin - Temp. control Tekmar 279.
    http://grandviewdavenport.com
  • Lance
    Lance Member Posts: 265
    I hate to chime in on such a lengthy thread, but one thing should be done, add more floor surface in front of boiler, level with the blocks to about 6" in front and to the front sides, will promote proper drafting at burners; nothing to do with the odor. Oh and clean that water, replace old steel returns that are flooded if over 60 years old if can't run clean.

    "Odors" are subjective; elusive. Divide and conquer I say. You seem to have narrowed the problem to the basement. You can't discount a source under the concrete floor. I would try and isolate the source. One could divide the basement in half with plastic and than see if one side or the other is better or worse. I would also try covering the entire bas floor with plastic, Visqueen is clear and light, would also show moisture through it. Odors follow air movement. Warming the air creates drafts, and movement. Air can be drawn in from contaminated areas, even a critter in a wall has been found to act like this. My daughter once thought it would be good to put both gerbils in the same cage. Then we had many. Next she thought they should be let out to play. Well we never found them all. Months later in the heat season every now and then I would get a whiff of a sweet sickly odor. Once you smell a decomposing body, you never forget it. Could not pin it down, was not always there. When I went to service the humidifier on my furnace, yep there he/she was. Problem solved.
    In a house this old it would be wise to foam any opening where wires and pipes penetrate the outside, floors and the attic plane.
    But if you find it I am sure we will all want to know.
    Was oil ever used in basement? Oil leak soaked in? All possibilities should be open. Was the basement a chemical lab? You never know until you know. Absolutely, positively verify all gas pipe for leaks. Did you know a gas main can leak under ground, forty feet away and follow any pipe into the home, be it sewer, water, gas, any drain? Verify chimney draft with all appliances burning. I once found a boiler flue leaked into a fireplace flue and exited the fireplace on the first floor. Breach between flues. the fix? Line the chimney. Sewer gas can come into a home where a floor drain or unused toilet in the basement has a dried out trap. Make sure all traps have a liquid seal! An old abandon pipe under the floor hidden can be present. Does a pipe leak ,or have a crack leaking fumes in a wall or crawl space?

    I once found a home built in 2000, found behind a wall a plastic wye for a cleanout hidden without a drain plug. Found after the pipe clogged and water flooded the basement.
    Good luck.
    Lance
  • mikespipe
    mikespipe Member Posts: 36
    Glad the problem was found . My sugestion would have been to vent the room with a fan for a 1/2 hour then look for the smell . at that point it would have been stong at the furnace. but other than that you should get those basement pipes insulated with 1" fiberglass insulation . every pipe is a radiator. lets get the steam to the rooms you want to heat. savings are such that the insulation will probably pay for itself in the first year. also it would be a good idea to duct the fresh air from the window down close to the floor and near to the furnace. this would reduce the loss of heat out the window and give the furnace the air it needs for makeup air, use a duct a few inches larger than the chimney duct.
    melmel02
  • New England SteamWorks
    New England SteamWorks Member Posts: 1,505
    Whatever it is, it’s in the boiler water. Call plumber back to install the skim port. At no charge. Then skim and skim again. Then pump it all out a few times. Then have him install a 1-16oz vaporstat and set at 7 oz.

    Then fix all the radiator leaks. Remove any vents on the radiator s and plug. Then do trap maintenance because the vents are there due to bad traps.
    New England SteamWorks
    Service, Installation, & Restoration of Steam Heating Systems
    newenglandsteamworks.com
    melmel02
  • ecb561
    ecb561 Member Posts: 1
    city or well water
  • melmel02
    melmel02 Member Posts: 59
    mikespipe said:

    Glad the problem was found . My sugestion would have been to vent the room with a fan for a 1/2 hour then look for the smell . at that point it would have been stong at the furnace. but other than that you should get those basement pipes insulated with 1" fiberglass insulation . every pipe is a radiator. lets get the steam to the rooms you want to heat. savings are such that the insulation will probably pay for itself in the first year. also it would be a good idea to duct the fresh air from the window down close to the floor and near to the furnace. this would reduce the loss of heat out the window and give the furnace the air it needs for makeup air, use a duct a few inches larger than the chimney duct.

    This is great advice, thanks! We are remediating asbestos and then all the insulation will be replaced and/or added to all the pipes. We did the same thing at our first house and it's no kidding that you save a ton of money on heating costs! I think that insulation purchase is even tax-deductible for a home-owner.
  • melmel02
    melmel02 Member Posts: 59

    Whatever it is, it’s in the boiler water. Call plumber back to install the skim port. At no charge. Then skim and skim again. Then pump it all out a few times. Then have him install a 1-16oz vaporstat and set at 7 oz.



    Then fix all the radiator leaks. Remove any vents on the radiator s and plug. Then do trap maintenance because the vents are there due to bad traps.

    Luckily/unluckily, the smell was a dead squirrel burning/rotting inside the boiler, and now it's gone!

    You recommend 7oz on the vaporstat? We are adding one. I saw someone recommend 8oz...we know this is like fine-tuning a classic car! Luckily no vents on the rads and once we turned the pressure way down no hissing or signs of leaks.
  • scott w.
    scott w. Member Posts: 207
    Were any of the steam piping recently painted?????
    I painted my hot water mains in the basement with a silver high heat paint in the summer or fall one year.
    When the heat came on in the fall the basement stunk for about a month until it cured. It lessened, eventually going away.
    Was the basement open to the outside for any length of time?
    Like a window or door left open?
    My grandmother lived in a modular double wide with only skirting around the base. The idiot who weed wacked for her busted up the vinyl around the base of the home. Possum got in underneath and crawled up in under the insulation and died. It was a sweetish dead smell. It went on for a while as we couldnt figure out where exactly it was coming from. She paid the kid who did the damage to the vinyl skirting to hunt for the dead animal. He found it and pulled it out. Luckily grandma couldn't smell but all her guests could.