Help us solve this mystery smell!

gerry gill

EBEBRATT-Ed said:

What about the "Blue Monster "tape that was thought to be a problem some time ago?

Was that a real issue or was that debunked?

we use Blue Monster on steam on almost every job. No issues.

gerry gill

ive smelled a sweet smell before when refractory was getting directly hit by flame when it was dislodged. Maybe gas pressure to high?

melmel02

EBEBRATT-Ed said:

Hopefully no underground leaky tank with the oil pushed inside with the ground water

We scanned for tanks so hopefully not!

Fred

melmel02 said:

Fred said:

Looks like it's piped decently and to the minimum manufacturer's specs. Wonder why there's a pile of debris under the boiler. I'm sure the installer would not have installed the boiler over that. I'm wondering if something nested under there and when the burner kicked on it killed it/them???

The pile is tapered to the top, like it came from above, but who knows. Either way, we need to get the debris out of there!

Was this a packaged boiler (assembled at the factory)? With what you said, now I'm wondering if there was some styrofoam or other packing that the installer either forgot to remove or thought might be insulation? It might have melted ???

EBEBRATT-Ed

We installed a hot water Peerless a few weeks back. The HO complained of a nasty smell took 3 days for it to dissipate

melmel02

Fred said:

melmel02 said:

Fred said:

Looks like it's piped decently and to the minimum manufacturer's specs. Wonder why there's a pile of debris under the boiler. I'm sure the installer would not have installed the boiler over that. I'm wondering if something nested under there and when the burner kicked on it killed it/them???

The pile is tapered to the top, like it came from above, but who knows. Either way, we need to get the debris out of there!

Was this a packaged boiler (assembled at the factory)? With what you said, now I'm wondering if there was some styrofoam or other packing that the installer either forgot to remove or thought might be insulation? It might have melted ???

I know they had to measure the doors and take one off the hinges to get it in, so I assume it was already assembled. Our plumber was confused by the smell, too, and agreed we need to open it up. Guess we'll find out Tuesday if something is inside. If not then I don't know what to think!

nicholas bonham-carter

Don’t forget to check the chimney for an animal as well.—NBC

Tom_133

So I couldn't read through all the posts, so this may have been mentioned, but I ran into this a while back. It was almost an ammonia smell. My situation was a propane leak. I argued up and down it was the cat box, but went in with my meter and it smelled methane which I found to be leaking under the kitchen sink and it detected a propane gas leak. So I searched all over and found the black iron pipe coming into the house had rotted and perforated. My guess is you have a leak that is stinking up the house. I argued it because it wasn't an LP smell, it was that sickly sick ammonia smell. But I was wrong. I would do a leakdown test on the gas, or shut it off outside and run electric heaters for 48 hours and see if it gets better

Just my thoughts

melmel02

Tom_133 said:

So I couldn't read through all the posts, so this may have been mentioned, but I ran into this a while back. It was almost an ammonia smell. My situation was a propane leak. I argued up and down it was the cat box, but went in with my meter and it smelled methane which I found to be leaking under the kitchen sink and it detected a propane gas leak. So I searched all over and found the black iron pipe coming into the house had rotted and perforated. My guess is you have a leak that is stinking up the house. I argued it because it wasn't an LP smell, it was that sickly sick ammonia smell. But I was wrong. I would do a leakdown test on the gas, or shut it off outside and run electric heaters for 48 hours and see if it gets better

Just my thoughts

Thank you so much for this insight. We have been worried that maybe it was a gas leak as we just switched the system from oil to gas...and now that you've said this, we realized the main entry point for the gas is directly below the foyer, which is where the smell is the worst! Ugh. We are on the phone with our plumber now and will get it sniffed asap.That would make a ton of sense because this started as soon as they started running the new boiler on gas. And I bet our pipe is rotted, too. Calling the gas company now.

Jamie Hall

Fred said:

@melmel02
Equivalence of Direct Radiation

to amplify-- it's measured in square feet, and it is the area of a metal sheet which would give off the same heat, with the same source (such as steam) as the radiator in question. It's significant, because particularly with steam systems, you can't use any more heat than that -- and if the boiler is too big, it will just cause problems. There are tables and books for most radiators.

It does look like a Webster -- at least the valves are -- and so it needs to be run at very low pressures. A pressuretrol isn't going to be able to do that -- you can keep the pressuretrol as a backup safety, but the actual control will need to be a vapourstat. Pricey, but the system will work better and more economically with it.

melmel02

All right, y'all. Our gas company came out to check and there's no gas leak. At least we don't have to worry about that anymore. He checked all the fittings for all the new work, so we know it's not that. Like everyone else, he said he'd never smelled this particular smell before. He described it as old, dirty mop water. Which makes us wonder if it's the water in the system. Sigh

Fred

Did you say the boiler has been skimmed? If it has, It might be worth doing that again. and then draining the boiler and refilling it.

Dan_NJ

Have you taken a sample of the water from the system in something air tight and checked it someplace away from the house? You might need to be away from the concentrated smell for a bit to be able to pick up on it in such a sample.

melmel02

Jamie Hall said:

Fred said:

@melmel02
Equivalence of Direct Radiation

to amplify-- it's measured in square feet, and it is the area of a metal sheet which would give off the same heat, with the same source (such as steam) as the radiator in question. It's significant, because particularly with steam systems, you can't use any more heat than that -- and if the boiler is too big, it will just cause problems. There are tables and books for most radiators.

It does look like a Webster -- at least the valves are -- and so it needs to be run at very low pressures. A pressuretrol isn't going to be able to do that -- you can keep the pressuretrol as a backup safety, but the actual control will need to be a vapourstat. Pricey, but the system will work better and more economically with it.

We are looking at the Vaporstat, Honeywell #L408J1009...correct?

melmel02

Dan_NJ said:

Have you taken a sample of the water from the system in something air tight and checked it someplace away from the house? You might need to be away from the concentrated smell for a bit to be able to pick up on it in such a sample.

We were just talking about doing this. We've been trying to find a source outside of the furnace the whole time, but we need to check the water in the system to see if the smell matches.

melmel02

Fred said:

Did you say the boiler has been skimmed? If it has, It might be worth doing that again. and then draining the boiler and refilling it.

Going to ask tomorrow!

melmel02

Today's update: we reset the pressure-trol to the recommended settings and the smell in the foyer seems to have reduced (we are going to put in a vapor-stat once it gets here, though). Furnace still has a nasty smell coming from the top of the box (where there's a hole), plumber is coming tomorrow to open it up. Hopefully the mystery will be solved then!

melmel02

THERE WAS A DEAD SQUIRREL INSIDE THE FURNACE

melmel02

It was thoroughly cooked and reeked, and also got mess in all the insulation, so all of that is being replaced. Glad to see we weren't crazy!

Canucker

> @melmel02 said:
> THERE WAS A DEAD SQUIRREL INSIDE THE FURNACE

@nicholas bonham-carter wins the prize.

Fred

melmel02 said:

It was thoroughly cooked and reeked, and also got mess in all the insulation, so all of that is being replaced. Glad to see we weren't crazy!

Brings back memories!

Gordy

Had one in my moms water heater flue twice. Made it all the way to the first elbow in the flue pipe.

JUGHNE

Just really a rat with a cute tail!

Intplm.

Sorry for the squirrel. Glad you found the problem.
My cat ended up down the neighbors chimney years ago. Was in there foe a few days. Cat was fine. Used up one of its nine lives.

Jellis

I responded to a call for a bad smell once. Found a tech had left a tool in the fire box.

luketheplumber

yummy!

BobC

A couple of decades back a neighbor called for service on her 1920's mummy hot water boiler with what had to be the first gas conversion boiler because of a strange smell.

When the gas company got their they found a large seagull was completely blocking the flue. On real cold days it's not uncommon to see gulls warming themselves ontop of a chimney

ethicalpaul

Nailed it

ethicalpaul said:

All my money is on dead thing. $0 is on “blue tape”

Alan (California Radiant) Forbes

Canucker said:

> @melmel02 said:

> THERE WAS A DEAD SQUIRREL INSIDE THE FURNACE



@nicholas bonham-carter wins the prize.

I think mr. ratio gets the blue ribbon by a hair. NBC gets runner up.

Well done, fellas!

Fred

Fred said:

I have had a squirrel die in my flue pipe before. Not a pleasant smell at all!

Don't forget my earlier quote either

EBEBRATT-Ed

@Gordy
probably the same squirrel I found in the water heater flue at my aunt's house.

I told my cousin, "we need new flue pipe I am going to the hardware store" he said "no way I will just clean it out"

he did. he regretted it

melmel02

The best part of this whole experience has been chatting with you all. We really appreciate the time and expertise, and now we all have a great squirrel story

Dave in QCA

I just read the entire thread and found it puzzling and amusing. It will make a great story to tell for many years. "Squirrel Boiler". Oh, but if you want a real laugh, Google NPR Squirrel Cop. It's worth the time to listen.

Lance

I hate to chime in on such a lengthy thread, but one thing should be done, add more floor surface in front of boiler, level with the blocks to about 6" in front and to the front sides, will promote proper drafting at burners; nothing to do with the odor. Oh and clean that water, replace old steel returns that are flooded if over 60 years old if can't run clean.

"Odors" are subjective; elusive. Divide and conquer I say. You seem to have narrowed the problem to the basement. You can't discount a source under the concrete floor. I would try and isolate the source. One could divide the basement in half with plastic and than see if one side or the other is better or worse. I would also try covering the entire bas floor with plastic, Visqueen is clear and light, would also show moisture through it. Odors follow air movement. Warming the air creates drafts, and movement. Air can be drawn in from contaminated areas, even a critter in a wall has been found to act like this. My daughter once thought it would be good to put both gerbils in the same cage. Then we had many. Next she thought they should be let out to play. Well we never found them all. Months later in the heat season every now and then I would get a whiff of a sweet sickly odor. Once you smell a decomposing body, you never forget it. Could not pin it down, was not always there. When I went to service the humidifier on my furnace, yep there he/she was. Problem solved.
In a house this old it would be wise to foam any opening where wires and pipes penetrate the outside, floors and the attic plane.
But if you find it I am sure we will all want to know.
Was oil ever used in basement? Oil leak soaked in? All possibilities should be open. Was the basement a chemical lab? You never know until you know. Absolutely, positively verify all gas pipe for leaks. Did you know a gas main can leak under ground, forty feet away and follow any pipe into the home, be it sewer, water, gas, any drain? Verify chimney draft with all appliances burning. I once found a boiler flue leaked into a fireplace flue and exited the fireplace on the first floor. Breach between flues. the fix? Line the chimney. Sewer gas can come into a home where a floor drain or unused toilet in the basement has a dried out trap. Make sure all traps have a liquid seal! An old abandon pipe under the floor hidden can be present. Does a pipe leak ,or have a crack leaking fumes in a wall or crawl space?

I once found a home built in 2000, found behind a wall a plastic wye for a cleanout hidden without a drain plug. Found after the pipe clogged and water flooded the basement.
Good luck.
Lance

mikespipe

Glad the problem was found . My sugestion would have been to vent the room with a fan for a 1/2 hour then look for the smell . at that point it would have been stong at the furnace. but other than that you should get those basement pipes insulated with 1" fiberglass insulation . every pipe is a radiator. lets get the steam to the rooms you want to heat. savings are such that the insulation will probably pay for itself in the first year. also it would be a good idea to duct the fresh air from the window down close to the floor and near to the furnace. this would reduce the loss of heat out the window and give the furnace the air it needs for makeup air, use a duct a few inches larger than the chimney duct.

New England SteamWorks

Whatever it is, it’s in the boiler water. Call plumber back to install the skim port. At no charge. Then skim and skim again. Then pump it all out a few times. Then have him install a 1-16oz vaporstat and set at 7 oz.

Then fix all the radiator leaks. Remove any vents on the radiator s and plug. Then do trap maintenance because the vents are there due to bad traps.

ecb561

city or well water

melmel02

mikespipe said:

Glad the problem was found . My sugestion would have been to vent the room with a fan for a 1/2 hour then look for the smell . at that point it would have been stong at the furnace. but other than that you should get those basement pipes insulated with 1" fiberglass insulation . every pipe is a radiator. lets get the steam to the rooms you want to heat. savings are such that the insulation will probably pay for itself in the first year. also it would be a good idea to duct the fresh air from the window down close to the floor and near to the furnace. this would reduce the loss of heat out the window and give the furnace the air it needs for makeup air, use a duct a few inches larger than the chimney duct.

This is great advice, thanks! We are remediating asbestos and then all the insulation will be replaced and/or added to all the pipes. We did the same thing at our first house and it's no kidding that you save a ton of money on heating costs! I think that insulation purchase is even tax-deductible for a home-owner.

melmel02

New England SteamWorks said:

Whatever it is, it’s in the boiler water. Call plumber back to install the skim port. At no charge. Then skim and skim again. Then pump it all out a few times. Then have him install a 1-16oz vaporstat and set at 7 oz.



Then fix all the radiator leaks. Remove any vents on the radiator s and plug. Then do trap maintenance because the vents are there due to bad traps.

Luckily/unluckily, the smell was a dead squirrel burning/rotting inside the boiler, and now it's gone!

You recommend 7oz on the vaporstat? We are adding one. I saw someone recommend 8oz...we know this is like fine-tuning a classic car! Luckily no vents on the rads and once we turned the pressure way down no hissing or signs of leaks.

scott w.

Were any of the steam piping recently painted?????
I painted my hot water mains in the basement with a silver high heat paint in the summer or fall one year.
When the heat came on in the fall the basement stunk for about a month until it cured. It lessened, eventually going away.
Was the basement open to the outside for any length of time?
Like a window or door left open?
My grandmother lived in a modular double wide with only skirting around the base. The idiot who weed wacked for her busted up the vinyl around the base of the home. Possum got in underneath and crawled up in under the insulation and died. It was a sweetish dead smell. It went on for a while as we couldnt figure out where exactly it was coming from. She paid the kid who did the damage to the vinyl skirting to hunt for the dead animal. He found it and pulled it out. Luckily grandma couldn't smell but all her guests could.