When to NOT use sharkbite? A question

JayPoorJay

Hello All.

As a new and first time owner of a home I am Super Grateful for this forum and all the incredible members and contributors. Amazing that I can get on here (and other forums) and ask the questions I can. Makes owning a home possible for me in this economy! Can't say enough about gratitude here. The Poor in JayPoorJay means what it says.

I kinda DO and DON'T want to start one of those famous great forum debates here. Have to be honest :) …. A guy needs answers.

Anyways, I have built (in process) a large sauna and steam shower in my basement. I am worried and either need some reassurance OR, a strong warning! To plumb in the shower I was thinking about using 3/4 inch SharkBite T fittings to run water off of the house HOT and COLD (cold main) copper lines - TO 3/4 PEX… Already, I am imagining myself worried as **** thinking about leaks and a blow out and a flooded basement. Do I need to be?

Brutal honesty is welcomed. I have almost NO experience sweating and soldering. Almost none. I have literally done 3 solder joints on water lines for the heating (hot water heat) which only holds like 15-18lbs. Not much at all with SharkBite either.

Anyways,,,

What say you?

ethicalpaul

I say the odds are greater by far that you will have a failure trying to sweat a pipe as a beginner as compared to a SharkBite installation.

I put a few 3/4" SharkBites into my system as a temporary situation, but now I am leaving there just to see how they do. Not one drip yet after 5 years.

This is totally anecdotal, but also anecdotal is all the fear mongering you will likely see in later posts in this thread against SharkBite fittings.

But I would wager that even for most plumbers they would see more sweat fitting failures than SharkBite failures.

Confirmation bias is a thing

Intplm.

@JayPoorJay Shark bites are made for your situation. The homeowner do-it-your-selfer.

I have found them to be a great transition fitting and have used them myself from time to time.

Simply follow the directions on how to install them.

The first thing I would do is install a couple of valves on the hot and cold lines to isolate this area from the rest of the house. 🤔😉

Larry Weingarten

Hi, If the shark bite will live in a place that's not hidden and to actually look there periodically, fine. If not, I'd avoid using one. If you take about an hour with some copper pipe and fittings, you can teach yourself to sweat copper. I'd watch some videos first, but it is really not such a difficult thing. The main thing people mess up is not cleaning the pipe and fittings enough, Second is overheating the joint.

Yours, Larry

Mad Dog_2

Sharkbites are a temporary, emergency fix, but this is America...you do what you want except gas work or anything that could contaminate your local drinking water Supply..Don't worry, if it blows out it blows out.Only water Mad Dog

ethicalpaul

https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1847972#Comment_1847972

I think what Mad Dog meant to say is that he appreciates that SharkBite fittings allow homeowners, handymen, and even plumbers to quickly get a job done with no fire risk and great time savings! 😉

mattmia2

https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1847973#Comment_1847973

I mean compression fittings have been around for like 100 years.

Jamie Hall

There are places where Sharkbits are not just a good temporary fix (if the pipes are prepared well — square cuts and no burrs — they are a good bit better than temporary) but a perfectly valid permanent fitting.

I've use them, for instance, in settings where I am doing domestic water — and am MUCH too close to highly flammable wood to even consider heat, never mind a torch.

DCContrarian

If an area has been spray foamed it's often easier and safer to use a Sharkbite than to try and protect the foam from the torch.

mattmia2

https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1848002#Comment_1848002

Propress, compression, flare.

Mad Dog_2

Not plastic ones Matt. Speak for yourself Paul. If one possesses any moderate level of torch competency, Starting a fire is a non issue..Why is "easy" & fast, & cheap always your go to? I install systems that their children will not have to replace & in many cases, their grandkids. I don't subscribe to this throw-away Society we live in.

Pay me now...or you can pay me over & over later...Mad Dog

GGross

While I am not a huge sharkbite fan I had a leaky solder joint on a new water heater install at my house many years ago, cut it out and replaced it with a sharkbite since I wanted it done quick and had the fitting. Told myself I would change it out when the sharkbite started leaking, it lasted longer than the tankless water heater it was hooked to.

ethicalpaul

Why is "easy" & fast, & cheap always your go to?

Well as I said, I believe that sharkbite fittings are not only cheaper and easier, but they can last as long or longer than a sweated joint, or the pipe they are attached to. If you have data to prove me wrong I'd love to see it and then I'll alter my thinking. But no one has ever provided any such data so in the meantime I think I'll keep saving money and effort if that's OK with you.

They apparently are certified for permanent, inaccessible connections. Look, some actual facts: https://www.sharkbite.com/us/en/resources/blog/three-myths-about-sharkbite-behind-the-wall-and-underground

Jamie Hall

Um… well… @Mad Dog_2 , I beg to differ on one count: You say "starting a fire" is a non-issue with a moderate level of skill with a torch. I just can't agree with that one. Perhaps in a modern house with poorly seasoned timber… but in the places I work on, the wood is a century or two old, completely dry, and even large pieces will light with a wooden match — never mind wooden lathe.

I might consider using a torch within six inches of a heavy timber, if I had no other choice — but I'd have a helper handy with a hose at all times, and keep a fire watch going for at least an hour after finishing…

Keep in mind that the most common cause of loss for historic structures is fire… during construction or renovation…

Intplm.

I was not a believer of shark bites when they first started on the market. I am probably the biggest none believer / cynic when it comes to new stuff being introduced in the trade. Believe-you-me, I have, and have seen many get burned by some new shlock that is "the next best thing". I also have not seen one blow off, blow up disintegrate , evaporate, etc… I have not witnessed said failures because they were most likely installed properly. So maybe for a DIY'r? It's a way out and a way in to get a job done. I certainly would not do a large job with them or as a contractor use them as a go-to fitting, but as much as I hate to admit it, they have there place.

hot_rod

Both Propress and Sharkbite depend on the o-ring for the seal.

One is a crimp on, the other has a gripper ring. Both work and have a place.

We have seen pics of sweat, press and grip fittings push off in a freezing condition, so that argument doesn't hold water.

If you don't trust your solder skills, may as well use a grip.

Sand the tube, check for deep scratches, both with press and grip fittings.

mattmia2

https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1848007#Comment_1848007

Brass ones have. I hadn't even considered plastic compression fittings. Those sometimes split as you're installing them.

mattmia2

you aren't saving money with sharkbites, they are one of the most expensive options.

mattmia2

Have you seen any of the ceramic washerless faucets make it half a century or more without repair? The ceramic doesn't wear out but the o-rings that make the seal to the ceramic eventually leak.

SlamDunk

I have used shark bites professionally (Maintenance man) and personally in my home for years where they were visible and have never seen a leak. I have even used them on 3/4 pnuematic lines with 120 psi and they have been there for more than fifteen years. My own sweat work and paid professional sweat work have leaked due to improper heat or fit. They show up months and years later. Fire and skill must be considered before sweating. These days, because my employer paid for it, I use a propress.

I would use Sharkbites behind a wall, and in fact, I just advised my brother to do so in his 120 year old home.

Just make sure your pipe is cut square, no burrs, no dirt and is seated firmly in the fitting.

I would NOT pay a plumbing company to do a job and expect them to use Sharkbites.

hot_rod

Pretty good track record with press fittings. They have been used in hydraulic crimp on fittings probably longer than plumbing.

HydronicMike

You could also rent a press gun, grab some Viega (only) fittings and press it.

You can also run pex, and rent a crimper, or buy a cheaper manual one at HD.
I'd probably do the pex over sharkbites if I were in your situation.

Or make friends with a plumber if you have something of value to trade with them.

Mad Dog_2

Jamie, I too work in Historic homes (some 250 yrs plus) for 40 years now. Never burned a house down or even got close. I use qaulity Torches & Tips (Turbotorch) . I have tiny tips to huge. I also have a steady hand and a big bucket of water next to me. Never an issue. What did all these Deadmen & Old Time plumbers do without Propress & Sharkbites?

Jamie..they make non asbestos pipe torch shields for "impossible" spots. They work. Mad Dog

Larry Weingarten

Hi, I once had to sweat copper in a straw bale home. Took lots of precautions and all went well. Still, it was a bit nervous-making 😵‍💫

Yours, Larry

Jamie Hall

Threaded iron, @Mad Dog_2 ! Or hubbed and caulked…

Mad Dog_2

Paul...my "Data" is in the tens of thousands of homes and commercial buildings I've worked in since 1985. Millions a liner feet of Copper sweat joints (installed since the 1950s) that's 75 yr old "empirical Data." I still see galvanized screw pipe on domestic water installed over 125 yrs ago still working...no.leaks..And then there's lead.

Your "datum" is based on what? Your basement laboratory & internet research? You need to crawl through some Plaster & Lathe suspended ceilings in NYC museums and Courthouses, St Patrick's Cathedral, Crawlspaces of NYC Housing projects & 1870s Gold Coast Mansions of the North Shore of Long Island.

Stay with your position that they are fast & require no skills..I'll concur, but Sharkbites & Propress outlasting traditional pipe, fittings and joining systems?? Nolo Contendre....Mad Dog

SlamDunk

@Mad Dog_2 I would consider it a success if they outlast me!

mattmia2

https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1848039#Comment_1848039

and they were using blowtorches.

MaxMercy

 "Already, I am imagining myself worried as **** thinking about leaks and a blow out and a flooded basement. Do I need to be?"

As hard as it is to imagine, Sharks are allowed in many areas by code for buried installations!

I have used SBs as temps, and just as others have done, left several in place "just to see". I have about 4 in my basement right now at least 10 years - no leaks.

You won't get a blow out if you follow the instructions exactly, and that means first marking the depth and then making sure the pipe is inserted to that depth. If you ever get a leak, it will be a drip - I doubt a SB will blow off a pipe properly inserted. When I used them, I also deburred the cut and cleaned the pipe just as if I was going to sweat it to give the O-ring a nice smooth surface to seal against. If all your work is exposed and will remain so, then use the Bites if you don't have sweating skills.

EBEBRATT-Ed

I like sweat. Propress I don't care for. Is it fast? Yes. Is it good when working wet? You can't beat it.

Propress is great on long runs. Where I don't care for it is if you have to replace something and/or the fittings are close coupled you end up scrapping a lot of fittings. Never used a shark bite.

Personally I wouldn't bury or conceal a shark bite.

I would love to know if shark bite is acceptable on a large scale new construction job. Maybe some of our Engineers here can chime it.

I would suspect that engineers may not be willing to stamp a set of plans using Shark Bite

jesmed1

As I'm relatively new here, I'm still learning which questions are guaranteed to be the most fun:

1. How large a pickup factor does my steam system really need?

2. What is the actual efficiency of a cast iron boiler?

3. How much money will a new EK 2000 save me?

4. Can I use a SharkBite fitting?

🍿😅

mattmia2

https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1848067#Comment_1848067

i'm betting they are not approved for the larger building types

EBEBRATT-Ed

@jesmed1

You forgot:

What type of pipe dope do I use?

How do I add a "C" wire to a thermostat?

My burner will not start, what is wrong with it.

Who makes the best boiler?

What does the equalizer do?

RascalOrnery

I see lots of mention of copper fittings leaking but not one mention of a sharkbite leaking. Which is the easier repair?

Can't make everything bulletproof but you can make it accessible to some degree, if not fully.

I sweat stuff at my house, but I'm old school and a little proud in the challenge. I feel unless going against what the fitting is designed to do, than do what you want.

mattmia2

repairing copper is far easier

PC7060

https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1848025#Comment_1848025

you are if as a homeowner the leak is fixed with just a trip to HD. Especially if you consider late night or weekdays emergency plumbing service call. The large regionals anround here are just as likely to fix using a sharkbite vs. sweat or ProPress.

personally I avoid shark bites but I have a ProPress. I have used their refrigerator ice maker valves. Way better than than the needle saddle valves.

Dave Carpentier

I have one that I installed maybe 12yrs ago, in a spot that would have been a way bigger job to solder. Was all I could do to get an Imp pipe cutter in there to cut. Was a temp fix, at the time (lol). Since then, I got lazy. Now I have maybe 6 more from various rearrangements. All temporary, of course.

SuperTech

I braze copper tubing that's inches away from dry lumber in homes, it's easy to avoid starting a fire when you make the right precautions. Low temperature soldering is easy in comparison.

If avoiding the risk of starting a fire is the main concern I would use compression fittings instead of shark bites. Just my opinion, I feel like it's a better way to go. I've seen too many homeowners have leaks when the piping isn't perfectly straight or when any stress is out on the connection. Yes, I know leaks can happen in those situations with all types of connections but as a professional I view shark bites as something to avoid. Like @Mad Dog_2 I try to do everything the best way possible. Even if it's not the easiest, fastest or cheapest way to do it.

EBEBRATT-Ed

Yeah, if in the unlikely situation that you had to go before a judge. the opposing lawyer would as if you used the bets material you could use.

Solder is backed by almost 100 years of field use

Prepress has been around for less time but still has a track record. both here and in Europe.

Shark Bite?????

mattmia2

i mean yo could cite the code and standards that approve it for that purpose but unless someone somehow gets killed it is just going to be your insurance company arguing with their insurance company

Larry Weingarten

Hi @RascalOrnery , It was in another thread, but I have seen a Sharkbite fail, and it caused roughly $10,000 in damage some years ago. I think they are good for temporary repairs, particularly if the line cannot readily be made dry. I don't know of any rubber that we can expect to last as long as copper. I want things I build to far outlast me. 😇

Yours, Larry