Strange Gas leak
My son mentioned to me during a family get together that he had to turn off the gas to his house at the start of the summer and with winter on the way he finally set time for me to come out and fix. The story was told by his wife, "I went to the store and other errands, was gone for several hours. On returning home was blasted by very strong smell of natural gas and a hissing coming from out garage. She said she opened the door to the garage and it was really loud and strong. My son arrived about that time and turned the gas off and let me know about it during the summer. Thought it would just be a csst fitting, but it was not. Turned the gas back on to do some soaping and got back to the garage and it was very loud and strong smelling. I quickly found the holes and shut the gas back off. Decided to just replace the whole line. This line was counterstrike 1/2 with the black conductive coating. They had purchased this house and it had a new furnace and new gas lines about 3 years old. The installer had the gas flex touching and unknow old galvanized pipe. Turns out every hole was where the gas flex was touching this pipe. The pipe was not electrically hot when I checked, but maybe at different time going hot with a hot wire rubbing the old pipe. Hear is a picture of the first hole will have the other holes pictures tomorrow, Just don't understand she had no smell and come back 3 hours later with loud leaking gas. The holes don't look they just appeared. The should have been blow to bits. The other spots are little bigger. Any ideas..?
Comments
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Mechanical damage (rubbing). If it were electrical in cause, you'd've known that as soon as it punctured…
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Soft polymer tubing for GAS? INSIDE?!!!???😲😲😲
Trying to squeeze the best out of a Weil-McLain JB-5 running a 1912 1 pipe system.0 -
CSST with black coating. Google it
Edward Young Retired
After you make that expensive repair and you still have the same problem, What will you check next?
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I'm thinking lightning although a primary wire falling and touching something is also a possibility and whichever happened the concentration wasn't right at the time there was a spark to light it off. What does the steel pipe adjacent to it look like?
Could have potentially sealed itself and came loose at some later point.
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Wow. I can see it for an appliance drop, but doing a whole house in it?
Just. Wow.
No wonder I've never heard of it outside of a stove connection. It's SOOOO not code here, I think if an inspector saw it , THEY'd explode.
Trying to squeeze the best out of a Weil-McLain JB-5 running a 1912 1 pipe system.
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You can not use CSST for any appliance that could be moved…stove….dryer etc.
There are multistory buildings full of CSST going to many furnaces and water heaters.
Scary thought to some people.
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Gotcha. It's reminiscent to me of appliance connectors. Yeah, it would give me the willies.
Trying to squeeze the best out of a Weil-McLain JB-5 running a 1912 1 pipe system.0 -
Which code doesn't allow CSST to be used indoors?
Single pipe 392sqft system with an EG-40 rated for 325sqft and it's silent and balanced at all times.
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Chicago and the collar counties. Black pipe only.
Maybe NYC too? Dunno.
Trying to squeeze the best out of a Weil-McLain JB-5 running a 1912 1 pipe system.0 -
I don't have a Chicago code book, can you post a copy of the actual code?
I'm curious, because I'm not sure I care for the stuff either but as far as I know code everywhere allows it.
Single pipe 392sqft system with an EG-40 rated for 325sqft and it's silent and balanced at all times.
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How do you pull the stove or clothes dryer away from the wall?
NJ Steam Homeowner.
Free NJ and remote steam advice: https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/new-jersey-steam-help/
See my sight glass boiler videos: https://bit.ly/3sZW1el0 -
flexible pipe after the shut off.
It’s allowed on the Isl of long BUT it MUST bonded. That took away a lot of labor savings!
I still run hard pipe where it’s going to be used for hangers.2 -
it was mentioned the piping was not electrically hot. Which presumably means that it didn't have measurable voltage on it. That does NOT mean that it was properly bonded or grounded. I have seen — all too often — unbonded sections of metal pipe or conduit which can, and do, carry significant current even with no apparent voltage difference from ground, or perhaps an "insignificant" voltage difference.
Br. Jamie, osb
Building superintendent/caretaker, 7200 sq. ft. historic house museum with dependencies in New England1 -
Even the flashshield stuff? They would make us bond it usually as well but everyone here uses the flashshield stuff which eliminates the bonding requirement, Michigan residential code.
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CSST (Corrugated Stainless Steel Tubing) gas pipe was introduced in the United States in the 1980s. This innovation was initially developed in Japan, where it was deemed “safer” due to its flexibility, which reduced the risk of breakage and subsequent fires during earthquakes. The Gas Research Institute later explored its use in the United States. In the 1990s CSST with the Yellow covering was accepted in most jurisdictions across the US. It has been included in the National Fuel Gas Code as an acceptable product for house gas lines when installed in accordance with the manufacturer's instructions. I remember a 3 hour training class and taking a test to ensure that the installer was trained in the proper installation of CSST.
I have since experienced replacing the Yellow CSST with the newer Black coated CSST on a home in Avalon NJ. The Yellow CSST was installed on the side of an old home from the bottom of the home to the top of the fourth story attic where it fed a gas furnace. By all indications it was installed properly, except that it was exposed to the elements, in a coastal community where the salt air from the intercoastal water way was able to blow on it. The customer complained that they were smelling gas whenever they walked on that side of the home where the gas line was. As it turns out, it may have had a lightning strike that caused hundreds of pinholes to burn through the high points of the ridges of the tubing.
From that point in my career, I never installed any more CSST Black or Yellow coated. Not a fan. But it is legal in most places.
Edward Young Retired
After you make that expensive repair and you still have the same problem, What will you check next?
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Lightning +gas line. Wonderful.
Trying to squeeze the best out of a Weil-McLain JB-5 running a 1912 1 pipe system.0 -
The same chloride ion that will destroy a stainless water heater exists in salt spray.
Neary all codes are online now since they have been determined to be part of the law and you can't copyright the law.
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Ok
Can anyone show me where Chicago code doesn't allow CSST?
Single pipe 392sqft system with an EG-40 rated for 325sqft and it's silent and balanced at all times.
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and we keep making faster cars too.
I have always like the statistic where the Professional Hockey Players have been wearing Jock strap protection since 1874 but it was not until 1979 for the NHL to require Helmets. It took us over 100 years to figure out that our heads are more important than our other body parts. LOL
That is why we have lawyers if guess.
Edward Young Retired
After you make that expensive repair and you still have the same problem, What will you check next?
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Looks to me like they allow CSST:
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Interesting. I've never seen it anywhere.
Probably because of this:
18-28-1402 Limitation. The provisions of Section 18-28-1401 shall be subject to the further limitations stated in the code memorandum issued by the Commissioner of Buildings on November 17, 2016, entitled "Gas Distribution Piping Inside of Buildings"
No way I'd ever install the stuff.
Trying to squeeze the best out of a Weil-McLain JB-5 running a 1912 1 pipe system.0 -
i'd have to go digging through the model fuel gas code but i think like romex it is prohibited in certain building classes
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What's your reasoning?
Single pipe 392sqft system with an EG-40 rated for 325sqft and it's silent and balanced at all times.
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Too easy to puncture. The "it'll fail if there's a lightning strike nearby" is just gravy. I didn't check, but it also doesn't seem amenable to changing sizes as the line progresses.
It's just not that onerous running black pipe that I'd be willing to give up the advantages.
YMMV
Trying to squeeze the best out of a Weil-McLain JB-5 running a 1912 1 pipe system.
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Understandable.
Single pipe 392sqft system with an EG-40 rated for 325sqft and it's silent and balanced at all times.
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Looks like a typical lightning strike blowout to a grounding point. Most I've investigated had no gas odor for a while, up to about 1 hr. post-strike before either the odor or the fire. Lightning damage does not have to destroy everything in the home. The energy can enter from the yard into a pipe then blow to a grounded steel beam or other suitable ground. Sometimes the heat from the blowout will melt the outer polyester jacket causing it to fuse to the grounding surface. The pressure forces the gas between the jacket and the ss until the jacket is fully filled upon which point the building pressure blows it out at a relief point. I investigated one in Valley Forge park where the strike hit the metal chimney on a factory built fireplace with gas logs. The energy ran back through the non-AR CSST until it crossed over a steel I-beam, where it blow. The fugitive gas worked its way through the basement. The energy had also started a small fire in the outside wall where the CSST had arced to a framing plate. When the gas cloud hit the small fire the occupants, who where feet away became aware and flames shot out of the electrical outlet.
The IRC requires all gas piping that could be energized to be bonded back to the distribution panel or ground rod. It also requires all HVAC equipment to have its own dedicated surge suppression at the appliance.
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To the OP, was the system electrically bonded per code? Whether from a lighting strike or from a slight electrical current that accelerated corrosion, this sure seems like it was caused by electricity.
"If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough"
Albert Einstein0 -
Csst is just junk in IMHO. Gas is hazerdous. CSST is like tin foil on the inside. Both gas appliance connectors and electrical seal tight is stronger than CSST.
And you cannot use CSST for an appliance connector. I would not have CSST in my house. Just not worth the risk.
Gas is just too dangerous and should be threaded or welded pipe and fittings although in some areas Mega Press and Propress G with copper tubing are allowed.
MA actually allowed CSST when it came out then disallowed it when the bonding/lightning thing came up then they let it back in which I wish they never did.
It is just not robust enough
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it sure costs enough though.
i'm ok with flared or brazed copper too if you can convince me the sulfur content of the gas is low enough.0
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