Bad customer behavior

hot_rod

Probably only happens across the pond?

https://www.installeronline.co.uk/almost-half-of-tradespeople-have-walked-away-from-jobs-due-to-customers-bad-behaviour/?ce_b4=Qm9iLnJvaHJAY2FsZWZmaS5jb20=&cfn_b4=Qm9i&cln_b4=Um9ocg==&cc_b4=&cph_b4=&utm_source=e-shot&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=InstallerSHOWWeekly-Sat27thJan2024&es_c=787093D7F63D184D3C5FD8F9CB1E618D&es_cl=903F59864F542E7BE029C558CC4FD077&es_id=fc7£20

CLamb

Regarding, "Customers checking up on you or hovering over you while you work". I like to watch folks work on my house if I have the time. This is because I like to learn--not because I don't trust them. I do try hard to not impede their work. Would this behavior of mine bother anyone?

DJDrew

Here is my take on their list:

# Annoying habit

1. Late payment -- Agreed / Justifiable!

2. Customers trying to tell you how to do your job -- Perhaps if they see questionable work that is different than agreed on, but understandable sometimes.

3. Adding additional jobs on top of what you have agreed to do -- Learn how to say no or charge for it.

4. Customers nagging you to finish faster -- Perhaps, but most times open and continued communication of updates on the changing situation is a must on the contractor side, otherwise customers will nag!

5. Customers checking up on you or hovering over you while you work -- Hey, we've all been burned by shoddy work, I am guilty of keeping a close eye; likewise, it is a perfect learning experience... I'm paying all this money, it's usually better entertainment than This Old House!

6. Customer indecisiveness or changing their mind on something -- Often situational. But good project management and customer relation skills help smooth this.

7. Children hovering over you while you work -- Yeah, legit.

8. Not keeping pets out of the way while you work -- Totally Legit.

9. Not being able to start at the agreed date -- A good PM will have open communication beforehand to minimize site delays.

10. Customers trying to get involved or help -- As long as they are upfront about their intentions with the contractor, I have seen this work well. A contractor that doesn't want to work with someone needs to be upfront in the beginning.

hot_rod

CLamb said:

Regarding, "Customers checking up on you or hovering over you while you work". I like to watch folks work on my house if I have the time. This is because I like to learn--not because I don't trust them. I do try hard to not impede their work. Would this behavior of mine bother anyone?

I've not had an issue with customers that hover. It has led to some interesting conversations and connections, over the years.
I guess it depends on the intend of those that hover Or the space allotted.
I've not had a customer follow me into a crawlspace. The mention of rats or snakes keeps most at bay.

Intplm.

Customers who sabotage the work you have done to get you to come back because they are having a beef with there spouse.

Steamhead

I'm sure I'm not the only one here who has a (rather short) list of places we don't go back to........

GroundUp

Most of the jobs I'm going to walk away from, I do it before the job even starts because they've already given me a bad vibe. This happens several times per year- whether it's needing to know every single component I intend to use, or telling me that I need to do the whole job start to finish on a given day, or complaining about the price (complaining about anything, for that matter), bashing another tradesman, the list is pretty long. The hoverers don't bother me nearly as bad as they used to, but I've gotten to the point of either stopping my work and invading their personal space until they get the hint, or sending them on several wild goose chases just to keep them out of my bubble. More than once, with the heavy talkers, I've just stopped working and stared at them while checking my watch periodically until either they say "well, I better let you get back to work" or the time topic comes up and they find out I'm charging hourly to BS. If they're just going to pass through once in awhile and check it over or ask some quick questions, I completely understand. The ones who stand there the entire time and talk, I don't put up with it. I don't have the mental capacity to have a vocal conversation with a stranger about their neighbor's dog while also being able to focus on my job and perform it properly. If you don't keep your kid or pets out of my workspace, I will lock them out or leave. There is no reason for anybody to exclude courtesy when someone is doing you a favor.

EdTheHeaterMan

I walked away from a TRV project because a customer just wanted standard valves on the radiator so she could turn them off manually, but what she needed was TRVs to solve her problem. After agreeing to the price and the scope of the job, I ordered the parts and scheduled the work. A week later I drained the system and had my helper start to take a rad valve off. At that time in the middle of the job, she stated that she thought the price was too high and just wanted manual valves.

I told her that I can not work like this and told my helper to put the old broken valve back on the radiator. then pack up the tools. We are giving her back the deposit and she is no longer a customer. Don't call me for oil burner service any more. I was Firm on that point in front of the customer.

In about 5 minutes (after she talked to her daughter no doubt) She came back and said she was sorry and to do the job as agreed. I installed Five TRVs on the 5 hottest rooms radiators in the rooming house equipped with over 16 radiators. And all those double hung thermostats were closed all winter. That winter she saved about 800 Gallons of fuel oil compared to the previous year.

That next summer, She wanted the rest of the rest of the radiators equipped with TRVs. I selected a coldest room in the building to place the thermostat (using a remote sensor) and put a ECM pump on the boiler and left 2 radiators with no valve at all in that cold apartment. She ultimately cut her fuel oil usage by over 1200 gallons per year. Just about in half. The renters of the rooms could turn up the temperature or turn it down as they liked it. when a room was unoccupied the owner set to thermostat all the way down to #1. And i never got a call about setting the thermostat to 70 and the room is all the way down to 69°

When a customer can not make a decision, then changes their mind in the middle of the project, You have to STOP and put your foot down. I was helping here save money, all she needed to do was trust me. But I can empathize with some folks... but this customer was going to loose all that savings, and I would rather not do the job at all, than to accept her indecision.

EdTheHeaterMan

Another story I like to tell that I have used several times to refuse to work for someone.

A customer may question my integrity. Maybe even call me a crook for quoting an expensive repair.

Here is a nice way to call them a crook or dishonest right back.

“My mother taught me that there are many kinds of people out in the world. Some are honest and some are not. But I find that most people are a product of their environment. So if someone believes that you are being dishonest, then they were probably brought up with a lot of dishonesty around them. Remember this when you deal with customers and be selective with who you do business with”

I tell this story to the customer word for word. Than I add

“Since you and I can’t agree that I am doing my best to help you at a fair price, then I am going to take my mother's advice and choose to not do business with you. You would be better off finding a contractor that you can trust to do this job for you.

You owe me nothing for this time. Please call one of my competitors to have this work done. Have a blessed day.”

I like to use “Blessed day” just to rub it in to those that might use this tactic against me. And there are those that will use religion to swindle you.

This happened at the end of a business day that was particularly busy and cold for one person I remember vividly. There was no way that homeowner was going to get another company to come out that evening. I left them with the estimate even though they didn’t pay the diagnostic fee. (which would entitle them to the estimate) and a cold home. Oh well. That is why I like the Flat Rate “up front pricing” plan that states the price before any real work is done. Lets you know if you are going to have a problem getting paid when the job is completed.

yellowdog

I like the customers who agree to a proposal, sign the contract for doing a job at a said price and then argue the price after the install is complete because they think you did the job faster than they were expecting and you screwed them on labor. I have walked out of houses during my initial site visit and told potential customers to call someone else for the install because of how they were acting or questioning everything I said. I've never understood why if you say something different than the last guy that was in there they assume that you are wrong and argue the point the other contractor made and never accept that the other contractor may be wrong.

dko

yellowdog said:

because they think you did the job faster than they were expecting

Everyone has heard this one before

Nikola Tesla visited Henry Ford at his factory, which was having some kind of difficulty. Ford asked Tesla if he could help identify the problem area. Tesla walked up to a wall of boilerplate and made a small X in chalk on one of the plates. Ford was thrilled, and told him to send an invoice.The bill arrived, for $10,000. Ford asked for a breakdown. Tesla sent another invoice, indicating a $1 charge for marking the wall with an X, and $9,999 for knowing where to put it.

Except the the conclusion is that the customer still thinks you are ripping them off and it was too easy.

Plumber A - experienced and knowledgeable walks in and knows solution with just a glance. In and out in 30 minutes.
Plumber B - takes 4 hours taking apart everything and parts swapping until he finally gets it
Customer is none the wiser Plumber B is inexperienced, assumes it was a difficult job.
Both Plumbers charge the same amount of money, who has more perceived value?

I know many Plumber A's who do charge less because it was easy, but it was only easy because of their experience. Fit more jobs in a day?

Is it then unethical to take longer intentionally to manipulate the customer's perceived value? Depends on the customer?

What do you guys do?

EdTheHeaterMan

Is it then unethical to take longer intentionally to manipulate the customer's perceived value? Depends on the customer?

This is the reason that my son left the trade. Sold my company after being diagnosed with crippling disease. This was the mindset of the service technicians at the new company, because they had to increase billable hours. “Don't get done too fast, that way we can charge more” and the boss will be happy.

His business philosophy was different from my way of doing things. My son thought it was dishonest.


EDIT: OOPpsss. This is off topic. This should be under Bad Employer Behavior

GroundUp

@dko I don't do much service work and almost never charge hourly, but I always want to get in and out as soon as possible. Whether the reason is to get to another job, or simply to get back to my couch, the desire to be done is always a high priority. Sacrificing quality is never an option though, I will never throw something together and then take off- I always make sure everything is operating properly before I leave. This is a double edged sword for me- I get some who think I gouged them because it only took me 4 hours to do a several thousand dollar job despite still being cheaper than the other guy, then I also get some who get upset that I'm standing there waiting for things to warm up thinking they're paying me hourly to stare at a gauge. Sorry for being efficient, sir.

Intplm.

Harry Gordon Selfridge.
I just looked him up. Go take a look for yourselves. His philosophy is so terribly out dated but still hangs on to so many customers.

Young kid just starting out.
Was finishing up a job. Cleaning and sweeping up the floor. Dust pan and broom in hand in the basement.
Customer continually asks me nicely to stop cleaning saying that she will do that.I finally stop. And left, being told that she was very pleased with the work and that she will clean the rest up.It was a small about eighteen inch pile of saw dust .This happened back when no cell phones were around. But the trusty pager was going off not more than ten minutes from the job.

"Hey!? Did you leave a mess for the customer to clean"?!! She's complaining that you did and wants to get out of the bill.
This has stayed with me for over forty years now

Another one.

Had a customers husband take things apart on a water heater installed the day before. He was upset that his wife had called to have us install it. He did it so he could say....see they did a lousy job.

Chock this up to experience and move on.

Bob Harper

A well-thought-out contract solves many of these problems. There are many jokes around stating that if the client is a lawyer, add 50% but x2 if an engineer, etc. Another is that from your pre-designated 'Zone of Control', any entry adds $100/LF closer to the work they step. The law requires you to perform in a 'workmanlike manner'. That means good quality. It does not have to be Mil-Spec or NASA grade. There is a Blue Book of Architectural Stds. on fit and finish tolerances. However, you must provide what is stated in the contract or it is fraud. You cannot make substitutions without written permission as a change order. Create installment payment milestones such as $x amt. when the main equipment is delivered on site or once it is fired up. Always have strong language covering your labor warranty, punch list, right of repair, etc. Know your local laws. In PA, we must have written contracts over $500 for home improvements but the contract is null and void if it contains language bearing the cost of collection on the homeowner. Have an attorney draw up your contracts and use them.
If a customer is being a jerk and you're at a good stopping point with payments current, you have the right to 'fire' them if they become overbearing, disruptive, confrontational, abusive, harassing, threatening or otherwise impair your ability to fulfill the contract on time.
Do what you can document legally then document what you do.
Corollary: Do what you are trained to do within your industry Standard of Care but stay in your lane and within your contract.

Alan (California Radiant) Forbes

I can think of only two customers where I won’t return. 

The last time I did a job for Customer A, he spent the whole time in the garage with me. Not watching me work or talking to me, but just standing about 10 feet away, making sure I didn’t steal any of his belongings. 

Customer B uses a heavy cologne, like Axe and I’m allergic. I’ve asked him to stay in the house while I’m there, but just handing him the invoice sets me off. 

hot_rod

I thought 47% was a high %. Maybe the Brits are a bit more prickly

Mad Dog_2

It depends if they are genuinely curious & interested 🤔 or trying to nail you. 

1) if HO is nice, they can hang out all day.
2) If they become overbearing I put them to work...run them for this & that   go get me this.
3) Nosy & obnoxious not trusting...I go stone cold 🥶 quiet.. I won't talk to them for 10 hours...Had a Guy set up a chair,  snack table, a full coffee ☕ pot...(Just for him) right in the boiler room for 3 Days. Paid him no mind.

4) My father in law, will just start throwing pipe wrenches on the floor hard until they get the message.

5) I had one guy right next to me as I was trying to Voltage test a Wall Hung boiler.  A hundred questions...very annoying..know it all.  After 5 minutes, I said:

"Sir...you hired ME to figure this out. I need time on this.  I'll come get you when I figure it out, ok???"  It worked....

Mad Dog 🐕 🤣 
L>8

Mad Dog_2

Walked off less than 4 in 38 yrs.

Never forgetvl this one...1989...Walking up the stairs behind an older woman  reminded me of Maude (Bea Arthur...a piece of work) ..."Whats this gonna cost me???"  Me  "Not sure...let look at it..." Her, "It doesn't matter...all you plumbers are crooks anyway...." me...Goodbye 👋...her..."Wait..where ya goin??" 


You're not going to insult my honor...never
 Mad Dog 🐕 

hot_rod

At days end, you learn from experience how to deal with customers that put you out of your comfort or productivity range. It's not a book learning skill from my experience.

Humor often works, $$ incentive to lessen the cost may work, send them on an errand, etc.

If it becomes a frequent issue, it could be you instead of them. Go into new construction work.

yellowdog

@Mad Dog_2 I can relate to #5. I just had to ask a customer to leave me alone for a few minutes so I could troubleshoot her poor performing radiant system that someone else installed. Myself and a tech were in the basement trying to get some temps and look at the piping for over a half hour before she stopped interrupting us so we could think and start to figure out what was wrong. Every time we went to talk to each other, she would interrupt and make an unneeded comment or ask a question.

EBEBRATT-Ed

I have walked out on a few

george_42

While replacing a pressure gage on a well tank about a spoon ful of water got on the floor and customer went balistic. I did not even put the new gage on but packed up my tools and left. He said I am going to call your boss, I told him I AM THE BOSS and left

Paul Pollets

When I lived in Woodstock, I sold my home to a movie star. She paid full price and didn't ask for a discount. She was dating an actor and he bought her an emerald ring at Tiffany's. When she caught him in bed with another woman, she took off the ring and flushed it down the toilet. Then called me. I told her it may be difficult, since the home had a 10,000gal septic tank which would need to be emptied. I called my buddy who owned the pump truck biz and he said he had done this before. He pulled up to the home and had a filter/screen setup to view and isolate larger debris. We found the ring in 5 minutes. I washed the poop off and told him to keep pumping. After an hour, he stopped and I returned the ring with a bill for $5g's. She paid it on the spot. Her temper caused another major repair in the kitchen when she threw a 14" cast iron pan at her boyfriend(same guy)after catching him with another woman, and broke the custom sink and faucet. I hope she learned how to select boyfriends by now.

Lyle {pheloa} Carter

Early on when I first became self-employed. I was working for a condo complex. When a water heater let go and flooded the basement level of one of the units. I changed it for the unit owner. Got paid and went on my way.

That night she calls me back. The shut off to the water heater had started leaking.

Had a circle of water around water heater. I went back and changed the shut off. I knew the management company, I knew the cleaning company. I told the woman i'd have the cleaning people come by the next day and take care of the water. She said no, that wouldn't be necessary, but she wanted the name of my insurance company. Being new and inexperienced I gave it to her. She put a claim in for the entire basement, the original damages from the water heater leak.

I told my insurance company that wasn't the case. They told me what can we do it's your word against hers This was the only claim I've ever had on my insurance..

jumper

Some guys buy me lunch to pick my brain.
Then they ignore my words of wisdom.
Then they buy me another lunch to say that they wish that they had taken my advice.
Am I supposed to be happy that they made a mistake?

EBEBRATT-Ed

I got screwed once by my own company.

The company I worked for did contracting but also had 17 "on site technicians"(who were pretty much light bulb changers) but that's another story. They were onsite for this 10-building complex.

I was replacing a boiler feed tank on the 4th floor boiler room in an office building near Boston. I had help the first day draining and cutting up the old tank and getting the new one in place and had it operational in one day using 1 feed pump. (a 12 hour day) But the boiler room was a mess fittings and pipe and tools everywhere when we left.

I went back the next day and finished piping the second pump and putting in some pipe hangers etc.. I had no help and spent the entire day cleaning up, lugging all the pipe and fitting and tools and oxyacetylene torch and welding leads that were pulled up 4 floors on the outside of the building down one floor to the elevator and out to my truck.

We had two trucks the first day because I had help. Just one truck the second day with no help. I still can't believe how much stuff you can pack in a van.

Another late day. The last thing I took down was the pipe machine which was set on cardboard to protect the floor. When I took the machine and cardboard out there was a small spot of cutting oil maybe a foot square to clean up.

My van was so stuffed I couldn't get rags or anything, so the onsite guy says" oh don't worry about that, you worked hard all day and the job looks great and works great, I clean that up. Don't give it a second thought"

So, I left. I can still feel the knife in my back when they called the office and complained.

And don't forget we worked for the same company.