The last word about c-wire thermostats and wiring diagrams.

EBEBRATT-Ed

Three-way switches get confusing when you are standing there looking at a bunch of wires in a box. I drew it the "normal" way and below that is another variation ....and there are a couple of other possibilities as well.

mattmia2

EBEBRATT-Ed said:

Three-way switches get confusing when you are standing there looking at a bunch of wires in a box. I drew it the "normal" way and below that is another variation ....and there are a couple of other possibilities as well.

there are a few more if you ignore the part of the code about balancing currents

ChrisJ

No one's going to mention 4 way switches?

Jamie Hall

ChrisJ said:

No one's going to mention 4 way switches?

Oh please. Aren't we all confused enough? I have some really nice 4 pole 6 throw switches in one of my amplifiers...

ChrisJ

Jamie Hall said:

No one's going to mention 4 way switches?

Oh please. Aren't we all confused enough? I have some really nice 4 pole 6 throw switches in one of my amplifiers...

I was talking about 4 way switches for building wiring.

In electronics there's all kinds of fun stuff in switches.

mattmia2

ChrisJ said:

No one's going to mention 4 way switches?

mattmia2 said:

A 4 way switch sits on the travelers and crosses or uncrosses the travelers.

Alan (California Radiant) Forbes

ED: "To the Moon!"

STEVEusaPA

Another thread gone way off topic thanks to the usual suspects.

ChrisJ

STEVEusaPA said:

Another thread gone way off topic thanks to the usual suspects.

Steve,
This forum has very few rules, the main one being to be respectful.
There's been times which I've failed at this my self, but I'm always trying to improve.

The comments on this thread that are "off topic" kept bringing the thread back to the top of the list. Without them, the thread would have been long buried and died off. Even your comment, albeit unkind brought it back to the top for others to read the original post and perhaps add to it.

There's not a single person in this thread that doesn't have the utmost respect for @JohnNY and I'm sure no one meant to disrespect him.

STEVEusaPA

ChrisJ said:

STEVEusaPA said:

Another thread gone way off topic thanks to the usual suspects.

Steve,
This forum has very few rules, the main one being to be respectful.
There's been times which I've failed at this my self, but I'm always trying to improve.

The comments on this thread that are "off topic" kept bringing the thread back to the top of the list. Without them, the thread would have been long buried and died off. Even your comment, albeit unkind brought it back to the top for others to read the original post and perhaps add to it.

There's not a single person in this thread that doesn't have the utmost respect for @JohnNY and I'm sure no one meant to disrespect him.

Please work on your reading comprehension. I’m not disrespecting John. And I’m not unkind, in this case. This is just another example and more about the other threads.
Not staying on topic is disrespectful. Having people with no experience commenting on posts like they know what they are talking about is more of an issue. Unsuspecting people will come here looking for answers and think they are getting professional advice, but instead, getting non professional, incorrect help.
One of the other sites I am on checks members and only vetted professionals can respond to homeowners' posts. But hey it’s not my sight.

ChrisJ

STEVEusaPA said:

ChrisJ said:

STEVEusaPA said:

Another thread gone way off topic thanks to the usual suspects.

Steve,
This forum has very few rules, the main one being to be respectful.
There's been times which I've failed at this my self, but I'm always trying to improve.

The comments on this thread that are "off topic" kept bringing the thread back to the top of the list. Without them, the thread would have been long buried and died off. Even your comment, albeit unkind brought it back to the top for others to read the original post and perhaps add to it.

There's not a single person in this thread that doesn't have the utmost respect for @JohnNY and I'm sure no one meant to disrespect him.

Please work on your reading comprehension. I’m not disrespecting John. And I’m not unkind, in this case. This is just another example and more about the other threads.
Not staying on topic is disrespectful. Having people with no experience commenting on posts like they know what they are talking about is more of an issue. Unsuspecting people will come here looking for answers and think they are getting professional advice, but instead, getting non professional, incorrect help.
One of the other sites I am on checks members and only vetted professionals can respond to homeowners' posts. But hey it’s not my sight.

I didn't say you were disrespecting John.

ethicalpaul

One of the other sites I am on checks members and only vetted professionals can respond to homeowners' posts. But hey it’s not my sight.

Do they check to make sure they know how to do near-boiler piping?

Jamie Hall

I am not quite sure how to respond, @STEVEusaPA , although I am one of those non-professionals who would be excluded by having this web resource become a closed guild. It is, of course -- and obviously so -- quite true that on occasion incorrect advice is given, however, it is almost always -- not always -- courteously corrected by some of the other more experienced people. It is not true, however, that advice -- or work done by -- a professional (by whom I presume you mean a person with the correct licenses who makes their living by doing the specific work involved) is always correct, or even remotely so. Over the last twenty years or so, I have seen numerous examples of superb advice given by non-professionals and by professionals -- and insane advice given by both.

This particular thread is an interesting one, in that @JohnNY 's initial post was really all that needed to be said on the subject, although I did reply with a happy that's it comment. Much of the remaining thread, bar one or two posts which probably should not have been made, illustrates the level of confusion amongst both professionals and non-professionals regarding both some fundamental electrical and control concepts and a lamentable amount of confusion regarding terminology. While somewhat off the original post, I have found following the post useful if only in helping me understand just where areas of confusion or misunderstanding do occur, which helps in coming up with ways of helping others figure out what is happening -- or not.

Erin Holohan Haskell

Interesting points. Yes, there are some pros-only forums in our industry. We just happen to be one that welcomes all. We've been running this forum for 26 years (the longest in our industry) and have found that we all benefit from the range of knowledge brought here by both pros and non-pros.

And consider this: If we excluded all who weren't HVAC pros as their profession, then we couldn't have @DanHolohan here. Yes, that's an extreme, but it does make you wonder where the line would be.

And I, for one, am delighted each time @Jamie Hall shares insight from a job he's held in the past. You were a building inspector too, Jamie?! This is just one example of how the range of life experience shared here makes us all a little smarter.

JohnNY

Never mind.
JohnNY Cataneo

neilc

If Dan leaves, I'm leaving

Jamie Hall

@JohnNY makes some very good points up there. There is one, though, which he hinted at but which I think needs more emphasis: there are some aspects of working on fuel burning equipment -- even including wood burning stoves! -- which must be left to trained personnel, at least in my view. That would include any adjustments of the burners, but also fuel lines (although oil is less critical than gas). When such topics come up, I try to say just that.

Note, however, that I say "trained personnel" -- not necessarily "professional" or "licensed". This may annoy some people, and I'm very sorry if it does, but it is the simple truth. I know of no skilled line of endeavour -- and I've been involved in a few, over the years -- where the possession of a piece of paper guarantees that the holder understands what he or she is doing, nor where the absence of piece of paper guarantees that the individual is not capable of doing very good and sometimes even brilliant work.

The problem, of course, is in distinguishing between the two. This is particularly a problem for the complete non-professional, typically a homeowner, and I honestly don't know of any good solution for the problem. I wish I did.

What I would say, however, to those of us who read questions and post, is this: try to understand the problem and the situation, and try to accurately evaluate your ability to provide a good and helpful answer.

Charlie from wmass

JohnNY said:

Not that I actually believe this wiring diagram will eliminate all questions about the topic but this should make it fairly simple to do for the next guy. Or girl.

Same diagram comes with Utica boilers now.

EBEBRATT-Ed

I think Utica copied mine LOL

DanHolohan

Good luck, John.