Just to stir the pot...

SlamDunk

@Jamie Hall , Henry Fordlobbied heavily for government to build roads for his automobile. Goodyear lobbied hard to get rid of mass transit "trollies". Government is always involved.

Hot_water_fan

Insulation of the building only affects the size of the unit installed and does not determine if an air-air heat pump will heat the building to 70 degrees in a cold climate.

I doubt we’ll come to an agreement on what a cold climate is, but my heat pump can do this into the single digits. I haven’t experienced anything colder than that though. 

Even if an air to air heat pump cannot meet the load at some temperature, the technology works! Using a fossil backup is a great pairing. It is not a binary. 

Mad Dog_2

No doubt it's very good technology and that it works in alot of situations.  What I don't care for is the DAMNING of fossil fuels and traditional heating methods and systems that some zealots want to rip all out. Not saying you.  The Orwellian Big Brother Tactics are alarming.  They're ready to throw put the proverbial baby 👶 with the bath water..Let's take this slow 🐌...Mad Dog 

Hot_water_fan

@Mad Dog_2 maybe you’re seeing something different than I am, but I’m seeing people advocating for replacing ACs with heat pumps when they break. No big brother, no mandates, just a multi decade process. Similar to how manual transmissions have vanished - it happened over decades.

Jamie Hall

Hot_water_fan said:

@Mad Dog_2 maybe you’re seeing something different than I am, but I’m seeing people advocating for replacing ACs with heat pumps when they break. No big brother, no mandates, just a multi decade process. Similar to how manual transmissions have vanished - it happened over decades.

So long as this statement is true, I'd agree with you. Unhappily, at least in some countries, it isn't true (the UK, for example), where it is replace (not keep the backup -- even fireplaces are bow prohiibited in some locations). How long it will remain true in the US is unknown...

WMno57

"So who is to blame for the death of the manual transmission pickup truck? The truth is that increased engine torque, government regulations, and the capabilities of the average driver are all partially responsible. "
https://www.motorbiscuit.com/who-killed-manual-transmission-full-size-pickup-truck/
"Back in 1997, the vice president of engineering technologies at Dodge Ram and Jeep, Bernard Robertson, offered some prophetic words to the LA Times: “Emissions standards are going to tend to make manuals a challenge…We may not offer a manual in California because of the more stringent emissions standards out there.”
The 2018 Cummins-powered Ram truck did have to meet some pretty stringent emissions requirements. For FCA’s combustion engineers, meeting emissions with an automatic truck wasn’t as tricky. They simply adjusted the truck’s shift points to make sure the engine idled below any highly-polluting RPMs. No coal-rolling allowed.
But obviously a manual transmission truck was a bit more of an issue. This is because the driver could simply downshift, floor it, and rev the engine.
In addition, vehicles need to meet “pass-by noise requirements.” Meeting these requirements in manual vehicles with loud V8 or diesel engines often requires retuning those engines’ torque curves.
An easy shortcut for Ram to meet these government requirements was to simply detune the Cummins engine in its manual transmission trucks. Could Ram and the government have agreed upon a full-powered diesel Ram with a stick shift? Probably. At most it would have needed a different exhaust system or control unit.
But meeting emissions regulations and noise requirements costs a ton of money. So from Ram’s point of view, pouring money into a manual transmission truck that can meet emissions requirements despite lackluster sales would have been a poor investment."

hot_rod

Its no secret that the hydronic and radiant industry in the US has been declining. For years now. Mini splits have had a lot to do with that trend.

Heat pumps, air to water and water to water have the potential to save or possibly grow the hydronics industry.
With hydronics in the heat pump picture you can glue, solder, weld, press, groove, thread to your hearts content So the trade stays in the game.

In new construction HP are certainly possible with the key being low loads and low water temperature distribution. As demonstrated in this upstate NY home recently built.

We will cover this more with some actual examples in next months Coffee with Caleffi it is such a hot topic.

WMno57

Jamie Hall said:

provision to run during 10 day grid failure to be included

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7q32cTB-8pw

Solid_Fuel_Man

Hot_water_fan said:

@Mad Dog_2 maybe you’re seeing something different than I am, but I’m seeing people advocating for replacing ACs with heat pumps when they break. No big brother, no mandates, just a multi decade process. Similar to how manual transmissions have vanished - it happened over decades.

Yeah....now I can't even get a manual in pretty much anything. Lame..... I can get better mileage and have more fun in a manual. Always. But they ain't as clean due to not having control of shift points and engine load at certain RPM. 

hot_rod

Solid_Fuel_Man said:

Hot_water_fan said:

@Mad Dog_2 maybe you’re seeing something different than I am, but I’m seeing people advocating for replacing ACs with heat pumps when they break. No big brother, no mandates, just a multi decade process. Similar to how manual transmissions have vanished - it happened over decades.

Yeah....now I can't even get a manual in pretty much anything. Lame..... I can get better mileage and have more fun in a manual. Always. But they ain't as clean due to not having control of shift points and engine load at certain RPM. 




Is this still the case compared to 10 speed automatics with 3 top gears as overdrive? The engines are always in the best operating condition with such a wide spread of gears.

clammy

I ve been trying not to comment on any thing which may have any political over tones and the whole save the planet going green air to water heat pump garbage and end of fossil fuels and all grid all I can really think and say is control and who gonna have it ,it certainly will not be the people on the end of the transmission lines . It does not take much adjustment of hertz on a grand scale to get people in line w lowering their thermostats just lower the hertz .
The all in one basket and some one else controlling the throttle just doesn’t give me a warm feeling . It s really even funnier is where all out to save the world and environment but where gonna but our eggs in a basket being driven by older technology on even older wheels the grid and then use a slightly Enviromental harmful refrigerant to produce heat . **** sounds quite absurd especially since in every transmission of energy there’s a lose at some level even at a sub atomic particularly level in quantum physics but I quest this is not revenant when it comes to 70 year old transmission lines .
Wool is often never used by magicians but the saying is pulling the wool over . And let’s all not be completely ignorant and believe in tooth fairies and nonsense . You can’t put in less and get more than was put in impossible unless just on paper . A really final note on the nonsense to all who wish and think this is the next big ice cream cone in the sky which will answer and solve all energy issues will satisfy the issue ,not really there’s always another big ice cream cone in the sky coming down the pike . Human nature is greed a non reality based thought and occurrence ,the true reasoning is never known and when it comes to energy those w there ducks in a line will hold the keys ,just look at where the money is who sponsoring these programs,mostly politicians who are already in relationships w big energy . So believe what you want But as Einstein said ww4 sticks and stones and us sooner or later back to flint and steel when all decision making is done by those who will profit and due best for themselves by the profit .
Every one complains about crappy techs unable to troubleshoot anything and well w throw away refregerant and cheaply made equipment made like garbage ,what will happen w all the new garbage that no one w a brain can fix or get parts for well you freeze .
I really often reframe from commenting due to how far off track most all posts end at and the fact that it s more arm chair then spinners and hardly any pros posting due to bashing and guys who may be smart but are not doing this professionally for a living and the under lining political under tones and views really cut my comments and replies to nil . There s some stirring the pot for you all ,ps please do no get reality confused w negativity .

Peace and good luck clammy

ChrisJ

clammy said:

I ve been trying not to comment on any thing which may have any political over tones and the whole save the planet going green air to water heat pump garbage and end of fossil fuels and all grid all I can really think and say is control and who gonna have it ,it certainly will not be the people on the end of the transmission lines . It does not take much adjustment of hertz on a grand scale to get people in line w lowering their thermostats just lower the hertz .

Peace and good luck clammy

I don't understand Clammy?

Just lower the Hertz? What does that mean?

Jamie Hall

Glad to hear from @clammy . I always enjoy what he has to say...

And yes he has a point on the hertz. If you lower the frequency -- hertz -- on the grid you will reduce the speed of almost all the motors on the grid by the same amount, reducing the power consumption. If you really get going and reduce the voltage at the same time, you will also reduce the power consumption. It's a bit tricky, as the grid is so interconnected, but it can be done -- and without getting into details, the more renewable energy connected, the easier it is to do.

Now lowering the frequency would raise havoc with synchronous motor drive things like some older clocks and high fidelity sound equipment -- but that's trivial. Right?

Hot_water_fan

How many of us would honestly trade our automatic transmission for the exact same model with a manual? 

ChrisJ

Jamie Hall said:

Glad to hear from @clammy . I always enjoy what he has to say...

And yes he has a point on the hertz. If you lower the frequency -- hertz -- on the grid you will reduce the speed of almost all the motors on the grid by the same amount, reducing the power consumption. If you really get going and reduce the voltage at the same time, you will also reduce the power consumption. It's a bit tricky, as the grid is so interconnected, but it can be done -- and without getting into details, the more renewable energy connected, the easier it is to do.

Now lowering the frequency would raise havoc with synchronous motor drive things like some older clocks and high fidelity sound equipment -- but that's trivial. Right?

Ok,
It slows motors down.
What about everything else?

Jamie, what "High fidelity sound equipment" do you feel this would cause problems with other than some really old turntables? Even my 1978 Technics was quartz controlled.

ChrisJ

Hot_water_fan said:

How many of us would honestly trade our automatic transmission for the exact same model with a manual? 

I've owned almost all manual transmissions.
And from my perspective, laziness is the reason they are almost gone, not emissions.

Yes, emissions played a roll, but since GM sold almost none starting in the 70s, it's certainly not the primary cause in the USA.

GGross

Oddly enough, the one thing that is least likely to be affected by lowering the Hz, is an inverter heat pump. Their whole schtick is lowering the Hz. That's why you generally don't see and can't find their real efficiencies as they have to be tested and listed while locked at 60 Hz as that is the standard in the US. It's like rating a gas fired boiler's efficiency under the least efficient circumstances possible. And even then the inverters are putting out far more than you put in despite the claim "You can’t put in less and get more than was put in impossible unless just on paper "

Mad Dog_2

I loved my Manual Sticks..Much better control and your fully engaged...Great in the snow, too. Mad Dog 🐕 

ChrisJ

GGross said:

Oddly enough, the one thing that is least likely to be affected by lowering the Hz, is an inverter heat pump. Their whole schtick is lowering the Hz. That's why you generally don't see and can't find their real efficiencies as they have to be tested and listed while locked at 60 Hz as that is the standard in the US. It's like rating a gas fired boiler's efficiency under the least efficient circumstances possible. And even then the inverters are putting out far more than you put in despite the claim "You can’t put in less and get more than was put in impossible unless just on paper "

It's not just that.

Lowing frequency will cause issues with industrial equipment, issues which will be fixed very quickly one way or another. I guess air conditioning equipment etc will have less output, but that'll just make most of it run longer instead. So, you've solved nothing.

I also think transformers etc are less efficient at lower frequencies? So as you go lower than 60, you're loosing transmission efficiency on top of it.

Hot_water_fan

I've owned almost all manual transmissions.
And from my perspective, laziness is the reason they are almost gone, not emissions.

Let’s call that customer preferences  . 

I agree, it wasn’t due to emissions. Americans don’t want them.  

ChrisJ

Hot_water_fan said:

I've owned almost all manual transmissions.
And from my perspective, laziness is the reason they are almost gone, not emissions.

Let’s call that customer preferences  . 

I agree, it wasn’t due to emissions. Americans don’t want them.  

Customer preferences, laziness,
I guess either works, one is more kind.

I drive 90 miles a day, a lot of which is in traffic and yet my left leg isn't broke.

Mad Dog_2

I'm with you, Chris!  Easy is NOT always the better way....I prefer "The Strenuous Life" Of Teddy 🧸 Roosevelt.   Mad Dog 🐕 

Steamhead

Hot_water_fan said:

How many of us would honestly trade our automatic transmission for the exact same model with a manual? 

I would, in a heartbeat!

Mad Dog_2

Me too..was driving stick on the Horse  Farm at age 9...Once you learn, its like riding  bike.  Mad Dog 🐕 

hot_rod

But how would millions of people that txt and are on cell phones be able to drive manual transmissions.?
Not to forget the gals on the phone, applying makeup and driving simultaneously?
Steering with their knees, phone in one hand, lipstick in the other, gazing into the rear view mirror..

ChrisJ

hot_rod said:

But how would millions of people that txt and are on cell phones be able to drive manual transmissions.? Not to forget the gals on the phone, applying makeup and driving simultaneously? Steering with their knees, phone in one hand, lipstick in the other, gazing into the rear view mirror..

You don't think you can do all of those things while driving a manual?

hot_rod

ChrisJ said:

hot_rod said:

But how would millions of people that txt and are on cell phones be able to drive manual transmissions.?
Not to forget the gals on the phone, applying makeup and driving simultaneously?
Steering with their knees, phone in one hand, lipstick in the other, gazing into the rear view mirror..

You don't think you can do all of those things while driving a manual?




Post a video of you driving and shifting with lipstick (or chap stick) in one hand cell phone in the other.
Make it a pre 60's truck, a tranny with no syncros, long travel stick to make it more interesting.

A Yeti coffee mug between your legs also, with a scalding Starbucks latte if that is not too much to ask. I'll buy the latte

ChrisJ

hot_rod said:

hot_rod said:

But how would millions of people that txt and are on cell phones be able to drive manual transmissions.? Not to forget the gals on the phone, applying makeup and driving simultaneously? Steering with their knees, phone in one hand, lipstick in the other, gazing into the rear view mirror..

You don't think you can do all of those things while driving a manual?

Post a video of you driving and shifting with lipstick (or chap stick) in one hand cell phone in the other. Make it a pre 60's truck, a tranny with no syncros, long travel stick to make it more interesting. A Yeti coffee mug between your legs also, with a scalding Starbucks latte if that is not too much to ask. I'll buy the latte

I've driven a model A which has no synchros and you manually control the ignition timing and I'd bet I could do lipstick in one hand and a cell phone in the other


Wait.

What?

hot_rod

Be careful with the lipstick comment around here, you may be branded "gender fluid"

ethicalpaul

A Yeti coffee mug is vacuum insulated and has a splash guard, no problem there

hot_rod

“splash resistant”
They work perfectly when the slider is closed

ethicalpaul

You didn't say it had to be open, although you could open it with your thumb while holding it--but who can drink scalding coffee anyway? :shrug:

hot_rod

Holding it in your crotch while you make the shift is where the scald hazard lies😉
I have  several of those cups, great cups but they don’t fit into the cup holders in my truck or 🚗 So you end up juggling it somewhere in the vehicle 

Mad Dog_2

I used to read the NY Post  in bumper to bumper traffic on the world's longest parking lot, The Long Island 🏝 Expressway , sip coffee ☕ and shift...and change radio stations when the music 🎶 got silly.  Never an accident!!  Lots of spilled coffee though!  Mad Dog 🐕 🤣 

ChrisJ

hot_rod said:

Holding it in your crotch while you make the shift is where the scald hazard lies😉
I have  several of those cups, great cups but they don’t fit into the cup holders in my truck or 🚗 So you end up juggling it somewhere in the vehicle 

Some will be familiar with this, and others won't be...

https://youtu.be/7elLpAKEFew?si=iGNWqn18eLZv0b0p&t=6

Mad Dog_2

What movie is that?  Corey Haim...that poor kid.  Mad Dog 🐕 

ChrisJ

Mad Dog_2 said:

What movie is that?  Corey Haim...that poor kid.  Mad Dog 🐕 

License to drive.

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0095519/

seized123

Largest Italian combo hero sandwich in the Bronx, with the works, driving a five-speed with crazy rush-hour drivers.

Mad Dog_2

Ha ha...yeah I heard of it...that "Corey Haim" Lucas Era was for the kids 5 yrs younger.  Where in Da Bronx?  Arthur Av...? What was it called...doubt its still there, right?  Mad Dog 🐕 

seized123

It was decades ago, I don’t even remember where it was, not Arthur Ave., though. Pretty sure it was called Mamas, and when you walked in there she was your Mama, heros as big as an aircraft carrier and so stuffed you couldn’t fold them in half. For some reason I’m recalling lots of Yankee memorabilia on the walls.

Then there was some old timer somewhere else in the Bx, in a storefront that looked abandoned, steamy windows, a wreck inside, you’d never know what it was from the outside. But every lunchtime he’d set up steam tables and made some of the best heros  I’ve ever had - brisket with boiled potatoes and peppers, yeesh. I think he was an old Marine vet, had some old photos on the walls.