Why I don't like SS Flex supplies...

Mad Dog_2

Mad Dog_2

Top two pictures....installed 21 years ago....ALL good..

The Bottom Photo.. a SS "No Burst" (a hem!) flex supply that blew after only a few years.  Let go over a long weekend while the HO's were away...Destroyed the first floor ceiling, living room wood floor, furniture...over 50 K damage and that was 15 years ago.  

Not on MY jobs or my house...Piece of mind and I love the Ridgid Bender!  Mad Dog

HomerJSmith

What kind of pressures are we talking about? On vacation homes, I always tell the owners to shut off all the angle stops and washing machine bibbs. Had a dripping washing machine bibb over a 4 mo period. Did an amazing amount of water damage.

STEVEusaPA

@Mad Dog_2 Unfortunately you're talking the difference between a plumber/craftsman vs. the ease of DIY.
I had a customer have one burst under the toilet on the first floor. Probably ran for a day. It was a disaster.
I don't have them either. Always turn off the lever at the box for the washing machine when not in use. I also always shut off all the water to the house whenever I'm going to be gone over night or longer.

Mad Dog_2

Average for "city" water  45-60 P.S.I.  Mad Dog  

MikeL_2

  I'm not a fan of plastic nuts. I've seen several fracture & cause major flooding. I harvest & save CP & brass nuts for re- use  whenever I can.
   I do use braided SS supply connectors, but only those with brass nuts on each end......

Mad Dog_2

That can be true if overtightened.  But, yes,  I have an old Mayo jar filled my nice red brass nuts.  Mad Dog  

JUGHNE

Tsk...Tsk.... just thing of all the lead that you are allowing to go into the WC and down the drain..

ChrisJ

You've never seen a brass riser fail?

ethicalpaul

Something happened to that flex line, but it wasn't normal city pressure.

mattmia2

I always use copper but they're fairly hard to find outside a supply house or better hardware stores.

mattmia2

Plastic flex lines like that will eventually dry out and burst if you wait long enough. In order to make the plastic that flexible and cheap it has to be made less durable.

Charlie from wmass

Tired of years of weeping brass ferrules and dezincafication of the brass nuts I switched to flex supplies and make sure water pressure is in safe ranges. Everything can break or leak, that's why we have home owner's and business liability insurance. Stripers are moving, that is a better use of time on Long Island IMHO. 

Mad Dog_2

Lead ?? All that PVC glue & Primer is great for our drinking water 🚰 supply, right? Lead, atleast,  is a naturally occurring metal mined from the Earth.  Glue & primer are a man-made toxic  poison.   Brass risers? No, actually .. never seen one "fail" Chris. Mad Dog 🐕 

mattmia2

The 2 reasons i have had problems with weeping ferrules have been super thin copper tube and ferrules that were old and have hardened with age sitting on the shelf. If they're old you have to het them up to anneal them before you use them.

Mad Dog_2

I've seen many Red Brass risers in service over 100 years.  Courthouse in the Bronx had 6" and 4" Sanitary Building house drains close to 100 years..Still no leaks. Mad Dog 🐕 

ChrisJ

Mad Dog_2 said:

Lead ?? All that PVC glue & Primer is great for our drinking water 🚰 supply, right? Lead, atleast,  is a naturally occurring metal mined from the Earth.  Glue & primer are a man-made toxic  poison.   Brass risers? No, actually .. never seen one "fail" Chris. Mad Dog 🐕 

There's no PVC glue in water it evaporates long before you get it wet and even if it didn't it would after.   It doesn't stay there it melts the plastic and leaves which is why the plastic doesn't stay soft.

This is similar to the formaldehyde argument.....


Formaldehyde isn't toxic in small levels.
Leads is.

Uranium is a natural occurring metal as well.....

HomerJSmith

I thought a toilet was a place where leaking was encouraged.

Mad Dog_2

Water pressure doesn't spike high enough to do  damage where this happened, in the  suburbs.
In a Manhattan High Rise that's Possible.  Brass nuts and ferrules don't weep if you dope, snug and watch them for 15 minutes.  Charlie, that's great that you leave it up to the  insurance policy as a last resort.. Alot of damage & loss could be prevented.  Knock on wood...never had an insurance claim.  That failure is a simple hernia of the rubber tubing (the weakest link)  Like the abdomen wall, the SS is ruptured.  This doesn't happen with a solid copper supply tube.  Mad 🐕 Dog 

Mad Dog_2

ChrisJ

Mad Dog_2 said:

Water pressure doesn't spike high enough to do  damage where this happened, in the  suburbs.
In a Manhattan High Rise that's Possible.  Brass nuts and ferrules don't weep if you dope, snug and watch them for 15 minutes.  Charlie, that's great that you leave it up to the  insurance policy as a last resort.. Alot of damage & loss could be prevented.  Knock on wood...never had an insurance claim.  That failure is a simple hernia of the rubber tubing (the weakest link)  Like the abdomen wall, the SS is ruptured.  This doesn't happen with a solid copper supply tube.  Mad 🐕 Dog 

Ask @DanHolohan about all of the pinholes in his copper pipes.

Mad Dog_2

Is this pride and craftsmanship?  Flexes are great for guys who can't rough the angle stop even close!  Like this fella..ha ha   Mad Dog 

Mad Dog_2

I guess if you need to shut an overflowing toilet while bathing, this works!  Mad Dog 🐕 

JakeCK

ChrisJ said:

Mad Dog_2 said:

Lead ?? All that PVC glue & Primer is great for our drinking water 🚰 supply, right? Lead, atleast,  is a naturally occurring metal mined from the Earth.  Glue & primer are a man-made toxic  poison.   Brass risers? No, actually .. never seen one "fail" Chris. Mad Dog 🐕 

There's no PVC glue in water it evaporates long before you get it wet and even if it didn't it would after.   It doesn't stay there it melts the plastic and leaves which is why the plastic doesn't stay soft.

This is similar to the formaldehyde argument.....


Formaldehyde isn't toxic in small levels.
Leads is.

Uranium is a natural occurring metal as well.....

Exactly, there is no safe amount of lead. Just progressively worse Neurodegeneration. 

At least with most other carcinogen's you may or may not suffer disease.  Breath asbestos all your life? You might get mesothelioma, but you might also stay healthy to 100 and instead die from a piano falling on you.

All that said I really do hate how much plastic we use. I think we are going to find that the endocrine disruption we are bringing up on ourselves will be our undoing as a species if climate change doesn't do us in first. 

ChrisJ

Mad Dog_2 said:

Is this pride and craftsmanship?  Flexes are great for guys who can't rough the angle stop even close!  Like this fella..ha ha   Mad Dog 

Oh I'm not arguing for one product or another.
I just know brass and copper aren't flawless.

JUGHNE

Somewhere recently I read of the dangers of PVC water lines.

Many utility water mains are PVC.

The article did point out/claim that there is no PVC in PEX.

mattmia2

vinyl chloride is dangerous. if it isn't mostly polymerized it can be dangerous.

ChrisJ

mattmia2 said:

vinyl chloride is dangerous. if it isn't mostly polymerized it can be dangerous.

Look up the boiling point of vinyl chloride.


Of course there's no PVC in pex.  Pex is cross-linked polyethylene.

mattmia2

ChrisJ said:

Look up the boiling point of vinyl chloride.

I'm guessing the problem happens when it bonds to additives in the pvc that aren't vinyl chloride.

Mad Dog_2

Nothing is flawless.  I'm just talking more durable and long-lasting.  Thats what I'm interested in.  I don't know where they use PVC for water mains, I'd rather see Uponor Propex if ya gotta go plastic .  MAD DOG

pecmsg

As far as I’m aware PVC is NOT allowed on potable water!

ChrisJ

pecmsg said:

As far as I’m aware PVC is NOT allowed on potable water!

I don't think it is but I thought that was due to how fails under pressure.


@Mad Dog_2 do they make 8" and bigger expansion connections?

EBEBRATT-Ed

Too many people twist the flex connectors into unreasonable positions. If used with common sense and kept an eye on they are probably ok

ChrisJ

EBEBRATT-Ed said:

Too many people twist the flex connectors into unreasonable positions. If used with common sense and kept an eye on they are probably ok

The few I installed in my house are almost straight.

mattmia2

EBEBRATT-Ed said:

Too many people twist the flex connectors into unreasonable positions. If used with common sense and kept an eye on they are probably ok

Who is going to keep an eye on them?

Karl Reynolds

Most stainless steel flex connectors have a tag on them stating to replace every ten years. How often does that happen? Probably never.

ChrisJ

mattmia2 said:

EBEBRATT-Ed said:

Too many people twist the flex connectors into unreasonable positions. If used with common sense and kept an eye on they are probably ok

Who is going to keep an eye on them?

Karl Reynolds said:

Most stainless steel flex connectors have a tag on them stating to replace every ten years. How often does that happen? Probably never.

Well.
In my house I exercise all my valves every few months. If I'm down the basement doing something I'll go around and turn all of the valves on and off a few times. This is including the main shutoff on the city water.

So, in my case, things are kept maintained because I'm the lucky winner that gets to fix them.
Braided hoses I replace when I feel it's necessary.

ethicalpaul

Karl Reynolds said:

Most stainless steel flex connectors have a tag on them stating to replace every ten years. How often does that happen? Probably never.

Just like float-type LWCOs

jumper

Karl Reynolds said:

Most stainless steel flex connectors have a tag on them stating to replace every ten years. How often does that happen? Probably never.

I enter dates in my cheque book program so that I have some idea. If your car hoses can last ten years under those gruesome under hood conditions then modern industry can produce lifetime hoses. But how do consumers or even professionals identify them?

ChrisJ

jumper said:

Most stainless steel flex connectors have a tag on them stating to replace every ten years. How often does that happen? Probably never.

I enter dates in my cheque book program so that I have some idea. If your car hoses can last ten years under those gruesome under hood conditions then modern industry can produce lifetime hoses. But how do consumers or even professionals identify them?

Some last much longer than 10.

I think my dad still has the original on his truck from 97.

Mad Dog_2

Reckless??? Hilarious!!! Your claims are USUALLY all reckless, dude! : "You don't need no stinkin' equalizer!!!! ...I know more than The Deadmen and Engineers of yesterday !!!"  You mean the brilliant thinkers of their day who actually had the remarkable intelligence and foresight to INVENT, CREATE, AND DEVELOP the plumbing and heating standards that have kept us warm, healthy and thriving for hundreds of years???
  I don't know what your particular background or training is Ethical Paul, but Something tells me its not actually turning wrenches and busting your hands up and taking dozens of stitches putting boilers and sewer pipe together. (Just an educated guess) There are Black Belts who do perfect forms and break boards and put on a great show...they look cool...Then there are No holds Barred Street fighters that destroy the BB in a Match because they have actually HAD real fights and know what actually works.   You do a LOT of pontificating and theorizing.  Vigorous and thorough debate is swell....That's your right to do that, but Don't think you can poo poo everyone else's decades of REAL LIFE  experience.  Just because you MAY be the smartest man in the room, doesn't make you correct OR the most KNOWLEDGEABLE man in the room..   Mad Dog 🐕