Derate cast iron boiler by removing sections?

RayWohlfarth

I have customer with two cast iron sectional steam boilers in two schools. One has a power burner and the other an atmospheric burner. Due to the leaking sections, the customer wants to remove sections and repipe the boiler. On the one with the power burner, they are going to derate the boiler to 75% and the one with the atmospheric burner, they want to derate it to 66%
My question is
Does that void the boiler certification ie UL?
I know the boiler with the power burner will be oversized by 33% I am thinking they should replace the burner
Is the contractor on the hook for changing the boiler? Do they have to get new tags from the manufacturer?
Thanks
Always looking to learn
Ray Wohlfarth

ChrisJ

I'm not sure about certifications, but wouldn't you expect the remaining sections to be questionable if some are already leaking?

RayWohlfarth

@ChrisJ Thats what I told the owner. He could spend all this money to rearrange the sections and the other sections were exposed to the same conditions

ChrisJ

RayWohlfarth said:

@ChrisJ Thats what I told the owner. He could spend all this money to rearrange the sections and the other sections were exposed to the same conditions

And I guess you got the ol "No I'm sure they're fine".

Jamie Hall

Not sure about the certifications, but you are going to have a jolly time adjusting the combustion parameters to fit the new fire box geometry. You're the test pilot. Have fun.

ChrisJ

Jamie Hall said:

Not sure about the certifications, but you are going to have a jolly time adjusting the combustion parameters to fit the new fire box geometry. You're the test pilot. Have fun.

To be fair, not very long ago that was a standard part of setting up any boiler, no?
Look at all of the coal to oil and gas conversions that were done.

As far as I know on large commercial boilers everyone has to set the burners up from scratch.

STEVEusaPA

If the manufacturer makes that same boiler with less sections, all the set up info may be in there that you need. I think you're replacing more parts than just removing a few sections.
But like the others mentioned, may be all for naught.

Steamhead

@RayWohlfarth , you and @ChrisJ are correct. If all they want to do is remove leaking sections, and you do so, you own it. They need to completely replace these boilers.

If the existing boilers are oversized, now is the time to right-size the new ones.

EBEBRATT-Ed

Well the jacket has to be shortened/cut. The power burner being to large would/could be an issue. I suppose on the atmospheric you cut/plug off the removed burners.

If both boiler models were sold as smaller boilers with less sections that I think you're ok to proceed. If the boiler inspection gets wind of this they may require a certified hydro which costs a few $$.

We did this with a couple of reused Weil McLain 88s removed 3 sections. The smaller boiler called for the same power burner with some adjustments it has been ok.

If the old boilers are leaking, I would be dubious, ours were in good shape

RayWohlfarth

@ChrisJ Exactly No money in the budget LOL
@Jamie Hall Didnt think about that Thanks

RayWohlfarth

@EBEBRATT-Ed I just found out the boilers are close to 60 years old. I told the customer to replace them and allow the boilers to retire with dignity LOL

EBEBRATT-Ed

@RayWohlfarth

Good choice

jumper

RayWohlfarth said:

@EBEBRATT-Ed I just found out the boilers are close to 60 years old. I told the customer to replace them and allow the boilers to retire with dignity LOL

If boilers were a bit older then they'd last longer?
Around that time manufacturers narrowed water ways.
Really old iron lasted forever.
That's what I was told long ago by that Montreal company that stocked old sections and radiators.

ChrisJ

jumper said:

@EBEBRATT-Ed I just found out the boilers are close to 60 years old. I told the customer to replace them and allow the boilers to retire with dignity LOL

If boilers were a bit older then they'd last longer? Around that time manufacturers narrowed water ways. Really old iron lasted forever. That's what I was told long ago by that Montreal company that stocked old sections and radiators.

Many modern boilers seem to rott out in 5-10 years.  Nothing lasts forever but it seems many older boilers tolerate lots of makeup water and still go 60-80 years.

I think @RayWohlfarth did the best thing for his customer 

EBEBRATT-Ed

You will never come out ahead messing with sections on a 60-year-old boiler I don't care when it was made or what the quality of the Iron is

reggi

jumper said:

@EBEBRATT-Ed I just found out the boilers are close to 60 years old. I told the customer to replace them and allow the boilers to retire with dignity LOL

If boilers were a bit older then they'd last longer? Around that time manufacturers narrowed water ways. Really old iron lasted forever. That's what I was told long ago by that Montreal company that stocked old sections and radiators.

If you were told this "Long Ago" and his boilers are 60 years old Now .. that would be Mfg in the early 60's
If long ago was 20 years you were told the story that would be back to the 40's .
I believe I recall reading they began mixing old metal into the boiler castings in the mid 60's but @Steamhead and others know more about that 

RayWohlfarth

Well, the customer decided to have another contractor switch sections from both boilers and make a single working boiler. I do hope they get some use but winder how long they will get. Thanks to all for your wisdom

ratio

When something like that happens, I always figure that I must've dodged a bullet.

RayWohlfarth

@ratio I hear that

Zman

"They never made them like they used to"...

Steamhead

RayWohlfarth said:

@ratio I hear that

This. You do not need to be involved with such a situation. There are better jobs.

EBEBRATT-Ed

@RayWohlfarth

You should go out and celebrate!!