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Gratitude to all in this forum

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I’d like to thank everyone here for their contributions to this forum. I had a boiler installed and the plumber left me to my own devices to sort out the rest. Although my sight glass wasn’t surging, my low pressure gauge was fluctuating like crazy causing my vaportstat to cut out early. From everything I learned here, I decided to skim the newly installed boiler. Here are the video links of the results.

https://youtu.be/RX369TXJHNc
https://youtu.be/ICyLjECJe8w
https://youtu.be/i7D00dB6rJg
ratioIronmanErin Holohan HaskellKC_Jonescross_skier

Comments

  • EdTheHeaterMan
    EdTheHeaterMan Member Posts: 7,844
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    NICE!
    Edward F Young. Retired HVAC ContractorSpecialized in Residential Oil Burner and Hydronics
    StevenNYC
  • ethicalpaul
    ethicalpaul Member Posts: 5,704
    edited February 2022
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    Congrats on doing what he should have done! I like that gauge. It looks like .5 psi in that last video, right? How long did it take to get to that pressure?

    Did you or the plumber measure your radiation prior to selecting the boiler?
    NJ Steam Homeowner. See my sight glass boiler videos: https://bit.ly/3sZW1el
  • StevenNYC
    StevenNYC Member Posts: 31
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    Congrats on doing what he should have done! I like that gauge. It looks like .5 psi in that last video, right? How long did it take to get to that pressure?

    Did you or the plumber measure your radiation prior to selecting the boiler?

    It’s an old mixed use residential/commercial building. Old boiler was a slant fin 225,000 btu. It was feeding all three floors at one time but eventually the ground floor rads were removed and capped which made the boiler grossly oversized. It’s funny how “pros” just kept replacing throughout the years with the same sized boiler. New EDR calculation after swapping out one small rad with a bigger one is just under 290.

    Decided to go with a Weil McLean EG-40. 125,000 btu

    Now to answer your question. It depends on the set back and how long the boiler has been off. But after skimming, The gauge wouldn’t budge. I thought I bust it or something because it took a good 30 mins to even register on the gauge. Once it reached 1 oz, it took about 11 minutes to reach 16oz. Funny thing is, gauge was at zero oz but stream made its way to the end of the main in about 4 mins once I could feel the header was steaming. 4 mins at less than an oz on a 55 foot main told me the 2 number 2 Gordon’s were doing their job adequately.

    Once it cuts out at 16oz I have the cut in at 2oz. Originally I had it at 8oz to 1oz cut in but once I insulated the piping it really started to short cycle. 3-4 mins. I cranked up the vaporstat to 16oz that brought my cycle times to 9-11 mins. The reason I have the cut in set so low is because I’d rather save the wear and tear on the controls and gas valve by increasing the firing cycle to about 10 minutes.

    I still think the boiler is a hair oversized. I still have 2 issues left. The top floor rads start to hiss at around 4oz. I read on here that the Gordon’s are good to about 2 psi without noise once steam hits the vent. Second issue, I get these weird phantom slight water hammering noises up to 45 minutes after the boiler cycles off which has be baffled.

  • ethicalpaul
    ethicalpaul Member Posts: 5,704
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    Sounds like you have a great handle on it now. I agree probably just a little oversized, but very manageable, especially if you stay away from setbacks you probably will see very little pressure on there, which is good.

    If the slight hammers are happening that long after the end of fire they probably aren't hammer (since the steam is long gone at that point). Possibly contraction sounds or ? Or maybe someone else has knowledge of what might cause sounds after firing like that.
    NJ Steam Homeowner. See my sight glass boiler videos: https://bit.ly/3sZW1el
  • Don_175
    Don_175 Member Posts: 126
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    Nice! I have a similar situation. How long did you skim for?
  • KC_Jones
    KC_Jones Member Posts: 5,739
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    Skimming is "fun" isn't it?

    Ask @ChrisJ about the nap he took while doing his. ;)
    2014 Weil Mclain EG-40
    EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Boiler Control
    Boiler pictures updated 2/21/15
  • StevenNYC
    StevenNYC Member Posts: 31
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    @Don_175
    Don_175 said:

    Nice! I have a similar situation. How long did you skim for?

    Probably a couple hours. Till the water wasn’t so yellowish.. in that video I felt I was skimming too hard so I reheated the boiler a bit and slowed down the flow considerably and kept reheating the water.. I also flushed out the wet return for the second time and completely drained the the boiler. (Which I hate doing because of all the oxygenated water being re-introduced)
  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 15,702
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    KC_Jones said:
    Skimming is "fun" isn't it? Ask @ChrisJ about the nap he took while doing his. ;)
    Sigh.....

    My dad was giving me a hard time late at night that I should skim again and I ended up falling asleep and it overflowed my bucket all over the floor.


    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
    bburdStevenNYCPC7060pecmsg
  • StevenNYC
    StevenNYC Member Posts: 31
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    @ethicalpaul

    Sounds like you have a great handle on it now. I agree probably just a little oversized, but very manageable, especially if you stay away from setbacks you probably will see very little pressure on there, which is good.

    If the slight hammers are happening that long after the end of fire they probably aren't hammer (since the steam is long gone at that point). Possibly contraction sounds or ? Or maybe someone else has knowledge of what might cause sounds after firing like that.

    Sounds like hammer and contraction had a baby.. it’s very faint. Normally would go unnoticed but my OCD is taking over. It’s like one baby hammer in the distance then maybe another one like 5 mins later.

    I still have the issue with hissing vents I need to figure out that start at less than 6oz..I got a sack of Gordon vents that I’ll try swapping out eventually.
  • StevenNYC
    StevenNYC Member Posts: 31
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    @KC_Jones
    KC_Jones said:

    Skimming is "fun" isn't it?

    Ask @ChrisJ about the nap he took while doing his. ;)

    Lol I didn’t mind it. This new boiler setup has become my pet project lately.







  • Jamie Hall
    Jamie Hall Member Posts: 23,322
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    A noise that delayed is almost certainly contraction. Somewhere. Can be really hard to locate...
    Br. Jamie, osb
    Building superintendent/caretaker, 7200 sq. ft. historic house museum with dependencies in New England
    mattmia2
  • StevenNYC
    StevenNYC Member Posts: 31
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    @Jamie Hall

    A noise that delayed is almost certainly contraction. Somewhere. Can be really hard to locate...

    Especially since it’s so random and faint around 3 floors and a basement.

  • KC_Jones
    KC_Jones Member Posts: 5,739
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    A noise that delayed is almost certainly contraction. Somewhere. Can be really hard to locate...

    I've had one in my house for a few years and just finally figured it out. Yes, they can be challenging to find, but the silence after fixing is worth it. ;)
    2014 Weil Mclain EG-40
    EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Boiler Control
    Boiler pictures updated 2/21/15
    mattmia2
  • PC7060
    PC7060 Member Posts: 1,160
    edited February 2022
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    Great work on your boiler set up.  :star:

    Looks like you got a whole house trap in line on the sewer the first picture. Does it ever give you any trouble? I can’t tell from the picture but it looks like somebody used HVAC Slip or Drive strips to hold it up.  Oriented at a angle, wonder if that’s to give it a perception of speed? :D

    Love all the old and wonky stuff you see in old houses
    shyheim
  • Chris_L
    Chris_L Member Posts: 336
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    @StevenNYC, Can you explain how your wet return is connected to you boiler? (I am looking at the copper piping near the floor in your last photo.)

    It is hard to tell for sure, but it looks like you have two connections to the boiler return. One is through the Hartford Loop (through a ball valve with a white handle). But it looks like there is a tee in the wet return, with another copper line that goes directly into the boiler return.

    If so, doesn't that defeat the purpose of the Hartford Loop?
  • StevenNYC
    StevenNYC Member Posts: 31
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    @Chris_L
    Chris_L said:

    @StevenNYC, Can you explain how your wet return is connected to you boiler? (I am looking at the copper piping near the floor in your last photo.)

    It is hard to tell for sure, but it looks like you have two connections to the boiler return. One is through the Hartford Loop (through a ball valve with a white handle). But it looks like there is a tee in the wet return, with another copper line that goes directly into the boiler return.

    If so, doesn't that defeat the purpose of the Hartford Loop?

    The T by the copper wet return connects into a 3/4” water feed copper line from the VXT. The black pipe above the T is a 1” drip line that connects to the dry return for the other smaller 1.5” main that feeds 2 rads above the boiler in the back of the building. If you’ll notice, I have 2 King valves above the header. 1.5” going left and 2” going right towards the longer run with the 2 #2” Gordon’s.

  • StevenNYC
    StevenNYC Member Posts: 31
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    @PC7060
    PC7060 said:

    Great work on your boiler set up.  :star:


    Looks like you got a whole house trap in line on the sewer the first picture. Does it ever give you any trouble? I can’t tell from the picture but it looks like somebody used HVAC Slip or Drive strips to hold it up.  Oriented at a angle, wonder if that’s to give it a perception of speed? :D

    Love all the old and wonky stuff you see in old houses
    That’s a storm drain. That thing has been there for 95 years. Thankfully it hasn’t given me trouble. The sewer drain and trap in the ground on the other hand, well that’s a different story. 😖

    PC7060
  • StevenNYC
    StevenNYC Member Posts: 31
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    @KC_Jones
    KC_Jones said:



    KC_Jones said:

    A noise that delayed is almost certainly contraction. Somewhere. Can be really hard to locate...

    I've had one in my house for a few years and just finally figured it out. Yes, they can be challenging to find, but the silence after fixing is worth it. ;)
    I gots to know, what did it end up being?
  • KC_Jones
    KC_Jones Member Posts: 5,739
    edited February 2022
    Options
    StevenNYC said:

    @KC_Jones

    KC_Jones said:



    KC_Jones said:

    A noise that delayed is almost certainly contraction. Somewhere. Can be really hard to locate...

    I've had one in my house for a few years and just finally figured it out. Yes, they can be challenging to find, but the silence after fixing is worth it. ;)
    I gots to know, what did it end up being?
    Pipe to second floor radiator was rubbing on first floor floor, but it was only heard on the second floor for whatever reason. It was subtle, like ticking. I put some milk jug around the pipe on the first floor and that took care of it. It's funny, for a few days I missed the ticking as I have zero clue when the boiler is firing now. I need to get the Magnehelic hooked up in the living room so I can watch what's going on.
    2014 Weil Mclain EG-40
    EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Boiler Control
    Boiler pictures updated 2/21/15
    cross_skier
  • Chris_L
    Chris_L Member Posts: 336
    Options
    StevenNYC said:

    @Chris_L

    Chris_L said:

    @StevenNYC, Can you explain how your wet return is connected to you boiler? (I am looking at the copper piping near the floor in your last photo.)

    It is hard to tell for sure, but it looks like you have two connections to the boiler return. One is through the Hartford Loop (through a ball valve with a white handle). But it looks like there is a tee in the wet return, with another copper line that goes directly into the boiler return.

    If so, doesn't that defeat the purpose of the Hartford Loop?

    The T by the copper wet return connects into a 3/4” water feed copper line from the VXT. The black pipe above the T is a 1” drip line that connects to the dry return for the other smaller 1.5” main that feeds 2 rads above the boiler in the back of the building. If you’ll notice, I have 2 King valves above the header. 1.5” going left and 2” going right towards the longer run with the 2 #2” Gordon’s.

    @StevenNYC, Thanks for the explanation. I didn't see the cap on end of the nipple on the tee next to the boiler return. Looks good.
    StevenNYC
  • StevenNYC
    StevenNYC Member Posts: 31
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    @Chris_L
    Chris_L said:

    StevenNYC said:

    @Chris_L

    Chris_L said:

    @StevenNYC, Can you explain how your wet return is connected to you boiler? (I am looking at the copper piping near the floor in your last photo.)

    It is hard to tell for sure, but it looks like you have two connections to the boiler return. One is through the Hartford Loop (through a ball valve with a white handle). But it looks like there is a tee in the wet return, with another copper line that goes directly into the boiler return.

    If so, doesn't that defeat the purpose of the Hartford Loop?

    The T by the copper wet return connects into a 3/4” water feed copper line from the VXT. The black pipe above the T is a 1” drip line that connects to the dry return for the other smaller 1.5” main that feeds 2 rads above the boiler in the back of the building. If you’ll notice, I have 2 King valves above the header. 1.5” going left and 2” going right towards the longer run with the 2 #2” Gordon’s.

    @StevenNYC, Thanks for the explanation. I didn't see the cap on end of the nipple on the tee next to the boiler return. Looks good.
    My only regret for the near boiler piping is not installing a shut off valve on that dry return for service/emergency purposes. Kind of defeats the purpose of the king valve without it.

  • mattmia2
    mattmia2 Member Posts: 9,662
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    There is a capped nipple on a tee out of the boiler that makes it look like it connects directly to the return instead of through the hartford loop.