What the heck is wrong with Honeywell?

Hap_Hazzard

No opinions on the Emerson thermostat?
https://www.amazon.com/Emerson-1E78-140-Non-Programmable-Thermostat-Single-Stage/dp/B00204WWGE/

KC_Jones

> @Hap_Hazzard said:
> (Quote)
> No, you're right. It's much cheaper to make them in China, ship them to the other side of the world, have the customers return them, and ship them all the way back to China to get recycled. Sounds lke a really sound business model.

I work in manufacturing, they could return 7 or 8 more and still make money, the labor and materials are that much cheaper. We have 3 plants in China, can’t touch the labor cost domestically. Not even on the same playing field, this is what consumers are asking for, this by the price point you quoted ($28.00) is what you are asking for. Want it domestically? In my estimation you need to start tripling or quadrupling your price point, based on actual labor and material costs I am familiar with. I’m most likely low.

I’m pretty sure someone posted a while back that they buy those old stats on eBay, might have been pressurtrols, hard to remember.

ChrisJ

KC_Jones said:

> @Hap_Hazzard said:

> (Quote)

> No, you're right. It's much cheaper to make them in China, ship them to the other side of the world, have the customers return them, and ship them all the way back to China to get recycled. Sounds lke a really sound business model.



I work in manufacturing, they could return 7 or 8 more and still make money, the labor and materials are that much cheaper. We have 3 plants in China, can’t touch the labor cost domestically. Not even on the same playing field, this is what consumers are asking for, this by the price point you quoted ($28.00) is what you are asking for. Want it domestically? In my estimation you need to start tripling or quadrupling your price point, based on actual labor and material costs I am familiar with. I’m most likely low.



I’m pretty sure someone posted a while back that they buy those old stats on eBay, might have been pressurtrols, hard to remember.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Round-Heat-Cool-Thermostat-Honeywell-T87F-3038-Thermo-Pride-GOLD-Prop-USA-NOS/153857709778?hash=item23d2a256d2:g:oisAAOSwFIFeZSzf

ChrisJ

https://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-HONEYWELL-ROUND-GOLD-HEAT-COOL-THERMOSTAT-T87F-2915-2-50-100-Heil/124052610965?hash=item1ce21c9f95:g:LfoAAOSwk09eI6UH

Sal Santamaura

Even less expensive:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/VTG-Honeywell-Round-Model-CT87B-Thermostat-Gold-Opened-Pack-Inner-City-Products/293499710682?hash=item4455f22cda:g:LngAAOSwQFNeXtfW

ChrisJ

Sal Santamaura said:

Even less expensive:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/VTG-Honeywell-Round-Model-CT87B-Thermostat-Gold-Opened-Pack-Inner-City-Products/293499710682?hash=item4455f22cda:g:LngAAOSwQFNeXtfW

Is that a mercury type?

Hap_Hazzard

I'm trying to figure out what's mercury and what isn't. So far it looks like anything that starts with CT is manufactured by Resideo and is mercury free.

T87F is mercury, 24 volt. Some are heat only, some are for heating and cooling.

T86A:
The T86 thermostat is a two wire, low-voltage controller, adaptable to most 24-volt heating control systems. It uses a dust-proof SPST mercury switch and makes contact on temperature fall. An adjustable heater provides close temperature control.

TS86A: mercury, for millivolt systems

The trick is to search for models with bimetal sensors. A bimetal sensor means it uses a mercury switch.

Here's a search result for round thermostats with bimetal sensors. Some don't have manuals, but the product info gives a summary.

ChrisJ

Hap_Hazzard said:

I'm trying to figure out what's mercury and what isn't. So far it looks like anything that starts with CT is manufactured by Resideo and is mercury free.

T87F is mercury
T86A seems to be mercury, but I haven't found a manual yet.


(Some manuals for the mercury-free models have pictures of mercury switch mechanisms, but they only pertain to how to dispose of your old mercury thermostat.)

That digital one I recommended will solve all your issues.

Hap_Hazzard

I think I'm going to go with the Emerson for now and get a mercury Honeywell when I'm feeling rich.

BTW, I think the answer to my original question is that, what's wrong with Honeywell thermostats is that Honeywell doesn't make them anymore. They're all made by some company called Resideo, and they're made in Mexico. If you want a Honeywell, get an old one, otherwise it's just an overpriced piece of cheap electronic junk, and the brand name means nothing.

ChrisJ

Hap_Hazzard said:

I think I'm going to go with the Emerson for now and get a mercury Honeywell when I'm feeling rich.

BTW, I think the answer to my original question is that, what's wrong with Honeywell thermostats is that Honeywell doesn't make them anymore. They're all made by some company called Resideo, and they're made in Mexico. If you want a Honeywell, get an old one, otherwise it's just an overpriced piece of cheap electronic junk, and the brand name means nothing.

Part of what's wrong with Honeywell is what customers are willing to pay. A very big part, actually.

You're not getting an American made, high quality round thermostat for $28.

Hap_Hazzard

ChrisJ said:

Part of what's wrong with Honeywell is what customers are willing to pay. A very big part, actually.

Or maybe it's what they're willing to sell for compared to their competitors.

ChrisJ said:

You're not getting an American made, high quality round thermostat for $28.

I didn't say it had to be round. Just simple and accurate. I'm totally willing to sacrifice all those features I don't need for accuracy. Why shouldn't that be an option?

I just want a better bicycle, not a self-driving electric car.

Sal Santamaura

ChrisJ said:

Sal Santamaura said:

Even less expensive:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/VTG-Honeywell-Round-Model-CT87B-Thermostat-Gold-Opened-Pack-Inner-City-Products/293499710682?hash=item4455f22cda:g:LngAAOSwQFNeXtfW

Is that a mercury type?

Apparently so:

https://customer.resideo.com/resources/techlit/TechLitDocuments/69-0000s/69-0274.pdf?_ga=2.164501183.1450688235.1583861918-178063329.1583861918

ChrisJ

Hap_Hazzard said:

ChrisJ said:

Part of what's wrong with Honeywell is what customers are willing to pay. A very big part, actually.

Or maybe it's what they're willing to sell for compared to their competitors.

ChrisJ said:

You're not getting an American made, high quality round thermostat for $28.

I didn't say it had to be round. Just simple and accurate. I'm totally willing to sacrifice all those features I don't need for accuracy. Why shouldn't that be an option?

I just want a better bicycle, not a self-driving electric car.

The round part wasn't really relevant.

Hap_Hazzard

Sal Santamaura said:

ChrisJ said:

Is that a mercury type?

Apparently so:

https://customer.resideo.com/resources/techlit/TechLitDocuments/69-0000s/69-0274.pdf?_ga=2.164501183.1450688235.1583861918-178063329.1583861918

No, that's a mercury-free unit. The picture that shows the mercury switch refers to the old thermostat you're replacing.

Sal Santamaura

Hap_Hazzard said:

Sal Santamaura said:

ChrisJ said:

Is that a mercury type?

Apparently so:

https://customer.resideo.com/resources/techlit/TechLitDocuments/69-0000s/69-0274.pdf?_ga=2.164501183.1450688235.1583861918-178063329.1583861918

No, that's a mercury-free unit. The picture that shows the mercury switch refers to the old thermostat you're replacing.

Nope. Keep scrolling down and read step 1 under section 7 on page 9.

Hap_Hazzard

Sal Santamaura said:

Nope. Keep scrolling down and read step 1 under section 7 on page 9.

I missed that! I wonder if this is a Canadian model or something.

Hap_Hazzard

I found a CT87A on Ebay and ordered it. (It's the heat-only version of the CT87B.) Thanks for the tip, @Sal Santamaura!

ratio

Hap_Hazzard said:

…The trick is to search for models with bimetal sensors. A bimetal sensor means it uses a mercury switch.

Nah, bi-metal can be the sensing element of a mercury thermostat, but it can just as easily be switching contacts too. At least one of the current models (I forget the mfgr) actually uses a magnet for hysteresis, along with an anticipator.

MikeL_2

I don't get too reliant on tstat accuracy. I'll adjust it up or down until I'm comfortable and use the corresponding reading as my comfort guide. My wife keeps her 1st floor tstat ( we live on opposite sides of our state Monday- Thursday ) set at 58° during the entire heating season; the second floor bedrooms are considerably cooler, but that's the way she likes it.......

ChrisJ

Oh boy

STEVEusaPA

58°??? I'm divorced...
Radiant heat, 69°, AC 75°. Haven't changed a setting in years.

MikeL_2

The actual first floor room temp is mid 60's, and about 60° upstairs. My point is the temperature displayed may not be accurate, but it satisfies one's comfort level.......

Hap_Hazzard

Why bother having numbers if they're wrong?

ChrisJ

> @MikeL_2 said:
> The actual first floor room temp is mid 60's, and about 60° upstairs. My point is the temperature displayed may not be accurate, but it satisfies one's comfort level.......

My Prestige says 69 but it's actually a lie.
It's averaging 4 locations and 3 are bedrooms I keep cooler. The livingroom where the actual thermostat is is 72.

Hap_Hazzard

My watch says 5:47, but it's really 6:09.

ChrisJ

> @Hap_Hazzard said:
> Why bother having numbers if they're wrong?

My Ecosteam displays 2 places after the decimal for temperature and it's very accurate and fast.

HVACNUT

I think @Jamie Hall is hoarding all the old T87F thermostats.

Jamie Hall

Look. I only have three in use!

Hap_Hazzard

HVACNUT said:

I think @Jamie Hall is hoarding all the old T87F thermostats.

It's an investment. They're going for $65 on Ebay. They'll probably outperform the stock market this year.

MikeL_2

Numbers aren't necessary, and neither are thermostats in some cases. Some of my most grateful customers enjoy radiant heating with constant circulation, outdoor reset, and no thermostats. I'm 65, but feel like 50.....

vibert_c

@Hap_Hazzard said
My Wayback Machine needs a new flux capacitor, so that's not an option.

Can you explain to me what this means, please?

vibert_c

Hap_Hazzard

https://www.oreillyauto.com/flux-capacitor
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WABAC_machine

mikedo

i lost all respect for honeywell years ago

Sal Santamaura

Hap_Hazzard said:

I found a CT87A on Ebay and ordered it. (It's the heat-only version of the CT87B.) Thanks for the tip, @Sal Santamaura!

You're most welcome. Glad to have been of assistance.

mikeg2015

We install these as out standard on new installs and replacement. Large display. You can configure the differential value for the application.

https://www.supplyhouse.com/Pro1-IAQ-T701-T701-Digital-Non-Programmable-Thermostat-1H-1C?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIl_uJloaR6AIVmXZgCh0dqQAhEAQYASABEgI2rPD_BwE


715 model for 2 stage application when we install 2 stage furnaces.

I still prefer to spend a tad more for a Honeywell T4. I prefer the tighter control of cycles per hour over differential. But 99% of the population doesn’t;t care or can’t tell the difference. And oversized equipment (80% of systems out there) will still swing wide anyway.

Solid_Fuel_Man

I have at least 10 T87 mercury t-stats. The state of Maine pays $5 for every mercury containing t-stat. I collect them and turn them in. Wow, I should start listing them on Ebay!

We did a school with a day and a night t87 in each of the 50 rooms a few years ago. I though the $500 check was good money.

Hap_Hazzard

Solid_Fuel_Man said:

I have at least 10 T87 mercury t-stats. The state of Maine pays $5 for every mercury containing t-stat. I collect them and turn them in. Wow, I should start listing them on Ebay!

Absolutely!

Got any mercury P'trols or Vapostats?

Steamhead

Hap_Hazzard said:

https://www.oreillyauto.com/flux-capacitor
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WABAC_machine

rick in Alaska

Unfortunately, a large amount of the new round digital stats I have run in to are junk right out of the box. They just plain don't come on. It is hard to wrong with the old school mercury stats as far as reliability goes. Just dust them off once in a while, and make sure whoever tries to test them knows what they are doing.
Disclaimer: Oh yeah, and if you break one, don't eat the mercury.
Rick

Hap_Hazzard

rick in Alaska said:

Disclaimer: Oh yeah, and if you break one, don't eat the mercury.

When I took chemistry, I learned that you can actually swallow pure elemental mercury and suffer no ill effects, because it's just the various compounds of mercury that are poisonous. I have yet to test this knowledge, however. Let's let Mikey try it.