Steam boiler losing water

T_4

Jamie Hall

Have you tried just lifting up slightly on the side panels? Perhaps a half inch or so? Some boilers have them just held at the top by a lip and fitting into a channel at the bottom...

T_4

ok found a manual model 234-4s.
the top panel pops off where flue is connected.
before removing flue, do i need to turn the gas off?
if so then i will have to relight the pilot

Jamie Hall

T_4 said:

ok found a manual model 234-4s.
the top panel pops off where flue is connected.
before removing flue, do i need to turn the gas off?
if so then i will have to relight the pilot

Indeed you do have to turn the gas off. And the electricity.

And you will have to relight the pilot. Which isn't a big deal...

T_4

No electricity milivolt thermocouple

Fred

If you're having this much trouble getting a panel off, it may be wise to call a Pro in and take a look at everything that might need to be done.

T_4

and pay thru the nose to br told boiler is shot.
Most plumbers i've called say they don't remove the panels.

STEAM DOCTOR

You can take some aviation snips and cut away at jacket. Enlarge the hole where the pipe enters the jacket. 99.99% you need a new boiler. Even if don't need a new boiler, replacing that piping is not a small job. Don't really think that it's a good investment. Boiler has served nobly and earned is right to a peaceful retirement.

T_4

The manual says to properly clean the boiler remove the top cover/flue, and use a wire brush.
So apparently boiler is made of vertical sections?
Looking for a way to keep this sucker running a bit longer.
Come on has anyone worked on one of these Bryant model 234-4s.

STEAM DOCTOR

A leak is a leak is a leak. Really think that its time to budget for a new boiler. Winter will be here before you know it.

STEAM DOCTOR

Most residential cast iron boilers have vertical sections. Doesn't make much of a difference at this point. Boiler is almost certainly leaking. No point in trying to circumvent reality.

T_4

I know we are not supposed to talk about price?
But all the piping is there, really just 2 pipes connecting to
boiler and gas line, they are alreafy there.
Should.t be a big job.
I have priced a replacement boiler at 2 units.
So why do plumbers want 6 units to replace?
Hard to believe it owuld take more than half a day?
I could almost do it myself with a little bit of help.

Danny Scully

Do it yourself than @T_4. Best of luck, and let us know how it goes.

KC_Jones

@T_4 I did mine myself, it’s not what you describe. Just because pipes are ther doesn’t mean you can use them. Also unless you get the exact boiler you have now (in your case isn’t made anymore) you probably still couldn’t reuse all the pipes. They simply won’t come apart that easily to be able to use them.

I added a few bells and whistles to mine, but still spent about 2.6 times the boiler cost for the whole job, that’s with zero labor cost. It’s not easy work. In your example if my boiler was 2 units my total cost was 5.2 units, again with zero labor.

I don’t even want to mention how much time it took me to do, it was certainly well beyond a half day.

ch4man

let it go. not only is there very obvious signs of flue gas leakage out the front, very dangerous the WW1 gas vale was recalled by honeywell when i started working in the biz 30 some years ago. i know you want to "just get a bit more" out of it, but its time of SAFE, useful life was over years ago. i see dangerous thing that only a guy whose done this for years ie: experience can see.

for your safety, let it go

KC_Jones

Adding to my previous comments, the boiler is piped wrong so you don't want to reuse any of that piping.

ethicalpaul

T_4 said:

I know we are not supposed to talk about price?
But all the piping is there, really just 2 pipes connecting to
boiler and gas line, they are alreafy there.
Should.t be a big job.
I have priced a replacement boiler at 2 units.
So why do plumbers want 6 units to replace?
Hard to believe it owuld take more than half a day?
I could almost do it myself with a little bit of help.

I'm very sympathetic. I'm going to install my boiler myself, but it's not to save money. Or rather, it's to save some money in order to spend it elsewhere because I like to do things.

Listen to @KC_Jones, he is giving great advice. It's definitely not like swapping out a faucet or alternator.

T_4

Thanks or all the help.
Boiler now working, no longer leaking.
Removed top. Apllied jb weld.
Then added boiler sealnt.
Total cost thirty-five bucks.

KC_Jones

I wish you the best of luck with your repair.

T_4

It's been running for 3 weeks with no water loss,
and we've had some cold weather

clammy

Go get a co detector would be wise under your circumstances peace and good luck clammy

T_4

Co detectors every where in house for years, no problem.

Fred

T_4 said:

It's been running for 3 weeks with no water loss,
and we've had some cold weather

One of these mornings, that pool of water on your basement floor will be known as De-Nile. Get your ducks in a row (pun intended) and know which boiler you want, the size you need and the installer you intend to use.

Jamie Hall

There is no way to predict how long your repair will last. Might be years. Might be weeks. Nor is there any good way to predict what will leak next.

Good luck.

ChrisJ

> @T_4 said:
> It's been running for 3 weeks with no water loss,
> and we've had some cold weather

It ran for years without loss until it didn't.

ChrisJ

T_4 said:

I know we are not supposed to talk about price?
But all the piping is there, really just 2 pipes connecting to
boiler and gas line, they are alreafy there.
Should.t be a big job.
I have priced a replacement boiler at 2 units.
So why do plumbers want 6 units to replace?
Hard to believe it owuld take more than half a day?
I could almost do it myself with a little bit of help.

I'm sorry but I feel this is an insult to many on this forum as well as many in the trades. I'm not a contractor but this isn't fair.

If a bolt fails in a bridge and the bolt costs $5 but it takes a crew a week to replace it, according to you the bill should be based on the price of the $5 bolt rather than the actual cost of labor? That seems a bit strange, doesn't it?

I installed my own boiler and piping in 2011. It takes what it takes and I can tell you I wouldn't come to your house and do all of that work for what most guys charge. They get away with the low prices because they're good at it and can get it done fast. Lots of practice.

If it's so easy go ahead and replace it yourself. I wish you the best of luck. I also want to see you do it in 4-5 hours. This includes removal of the old one of course. Like you said, half a day.

Fred

That's not to mention the cost/depreciation of tools, building costs, utilities, taxes, insurance, staff salaries, training costs, inventory, slow seasons, and probably another multitude of overhead costs.

SlamDunk

I did my own boiler- in months, not hours. I paid "2.7 units" for the boiler but I'll bet I spent an additional three units on pipes,nipples,unions, insulation , tools that i didnt have, traps.

I'll also bet I have one unit in extra fittings and pipes rusting in the basement because I over bought.

And, if I paid myself $20//hr, it would have cost another 4 units because you really dont know what youre going to run into when you start. It takes longer than you think, especially if you work for a living.

Then there is the issue of working with natural gas lines, properly venting flu gases. What happens when you lack a permit, will insurance pay any claims if I screwed up? Would my family forgive me if I did?

I would have saved money and a few gray hairs if I could have found some one to do it for just six units and a couple days. That's my 2 cents.

SlamDunk

I could have saved time by posting this

mikeg2015

I got my boiler for free. But spent 2 hours salvaging it, and probably have a good 40 hours in the installation not including my indirect water heater. I’m not fast or very experienced.

Needed. 36” and 24” pipe wrench and still had to cut out 2 pipe nipples.

This is heavy bull work shock fin big pipes all day. I normally work residential have serivce and installation and have a ton of respect for pipe fitters and steam fitters.

On top of that getting it all to fit just right takes a lot of experience or a lot of trial and error. I pulled Part of my header back apart 4 times and it didn’t come out perfect, but ran out of 3” nipples and patience.

T_4

ChrisJ said:

T_4 said:

I know we are not supposed to talk about price?
But all the piping is there, really just 2 pipes connecting to
boiler and gas line, they are alreafy there.
Should.t be a big job.
I have priced a replacement boiler at 2 units.
So why do plumbers want 6 units to replace?
Hard to believe it owuld take more than half a day?
I could almost do it myself with a little bit of help.

I'm sorry but I feel this is an insult to many on this forum as well as many in the trades. I'm not a contractor but this isn't fair.

If a bolt fails in a bridge and the bolt costs $5 but it takes a crew a week to replace it, according to you the bill should be based on the price of the $5 bolt rather than the actual cost of labor? That seems a bit strange, doesn't it?

I installed my own boiler and piping in 2011. It takes what it takes and I can tell you I wouldn't come to your house and do all of that work for what most guys charge. They get away with the low prices because they're good at it and can get it done fast. Lots of practice.

If it's so easy go ahead and replace it yourself. I wish you the best of luck. I also want to see you do it in 4-5 hours. This includes removal of the old one of course. Like you said, half a day.

Nobody is insulting anybody.
Alot of the advice is "Hire a pro, Hire a pro"
Think about it, why would someone post on this forum.
They are looking for a solution, most likely that they
can do to save money.
If one wanted to just hire a pro, they would just pick up the phone.
I stand by my post a boiler swap is NOT a big job.
Two water connections and gas pipe.
Supply house delivers boiler to house.
Tools needed sawsall and couple of pipe wrenches.
Boiler comes with detailed install instructions.

ethicalpaul

I look forward to the youtube video!

ChrisJ

@T_4

Most who come here are looking for solutions, period.
Most on here insist on doing good, solid, code compliant safe work and more often than not try to help people.

Repairing a rotted steam boiler with plastic epoxy isn't good, solid or safe.

I'm with Paul, I too look forward to the video of your boiler swap

T_4

Here we go again, you're house is going to burn down.
There is nothing unsafe about the repair that I did.
Worst case boiler loses water again. And the repair could last a very long time.
As far as you tube videos of boiler swaps, internet search
shows many out there.
Obviously this site is dominated by contractors ,
whose solution is always "Hire a pro".
Aren't there any DIY homewoners who care to chime in.

ChrisJ

T_4 said:

Here we go again, you're house is going to burn down.
There is nothing unsafe about the repair that I did.
Worst case boiler loses water again. And the repair could last a very long time.
As far as you tube videos of boiler swaps, internet search
shows many out there.
Obviously this site is dominated by contractors ,
whose solution is always "Hire a pro".
Aren't there any DIY homewoners who care to chime in.

I'm not a contractor.
Neither is @ethicalpaul and most others that responded to you.

KC_Jones

Not a contractor here either, DIY my own boiler. If I had to throw an approximate number on my labor hours I’d say 100 minimum, but I’m admittedly picky.

Just glanced back through the thread and I believe a majority are homeowners.

ethicalpaul

T_4 said:

Here we go again, you're house is going to burn down.
There is nothing unsafe about the repair that I did.
Worst case boiler loses water again. And the repair could last a very long time.
As far as you tube videos of boiler swaps, internet search
shows many out there.
Obviously this site is dominated by contractors ,
whose solution is always "Hire a pro".
Aren't there any DIY homewoners who care to chime in.

I did already, and like all the others who have replied on this thread, I gave you good faith advice and information based on my experience.

You have received extremely valuable information and help from contractors and DIYers on this thread. You seem to be looking for a fight, but you won't get one from me, and from what I know of the amazing professionals and homeowners on this site, you won't get one from anyone else either. We all wish you luck but this is my last reply to you.

wz25

I am a homeowner and am reasonably handy. I also know my limits and have watched enough professionals do their work to make an educated assessment about when I can DIY vs. when I should stay away. And when I DIY, I set expectations ahead of time, because unanticipated issues will always come up. I am hands-off when the unexpected could result in flooding, loss of heat, electrocution, incomplete combustion, and the like.

I came to this site to find a pro because it was clear (to me) that I would spend FAR more time and money to attempt a repipe, and still end up with a half-arsed result, versus paying for the expertise of a professional. And all "professionals" are not the same-- it matters immensely who does the work.

T_4

My point is , it;s not that difficult.
Two water pipes connect to the boller and they are threaded
to boot. It's not rocket science, and there are installation instructions with the the boiler. Plumbing is NOT rocket science.