Awful smell & health concerns from new Weil McLain install

Fred

@ChrisJ , my point was/is that, given the source of that tape and their history of using unethical product substitutions, it, along with everything in and about an installation where chemical odors remain well beyond what is expected for a new installation has to be suspect until it can be tested and ruled out. In the case of the original first post, taking the tape out of the mix (and I believe she was a chemist in in a related field) resolved the problem. As it relates to Jason, we haven't heard back from him so we don't know the outcome of his issue.
We do know that @scottnjr , took some steps to resolve a similar issue. http://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/161164/new-steam-boiler-install-chemical-smell-in-house#latest
Maybe he can give us an update.

scottnjr

When I was dismantling the piping on that smelly one I had, The installers had also wrapped it past the first thread, and there was plenty inside the system. The smell was very obvious to me then. I just "knew" it was the cause. Then upon returning today and seeing the smile on this old lady's face who could now leave the heat on while she slept, it's confirmed to me. I wouldn't use it again on steam, of course, I'd be more sparing how I applied it in the first place, but after this, I wouldn't risk using it at all. If it's made in China like you guys are saying, there's every reason that there are cheapened up ingredients in it.

apraetor

I have a brand new (less than than a week) EG-45 installed on to a steam system dating to 1951. My house stinks near the radiators when the boiler is firing; it smells like a cross between antifreeze and machine oil. The basement near the boiler also has a similar smell, with just a touch of burnt plastic smell.

The installer claims he skimmed it and that the green boiler water is the pH additive, but I am going to keep skimming it daily myself and run some TSP through it as many here seems to recommend. The old HB Smith had crystal-clear water, so I'm hoping I can get back to that point. If we hadn't wanted the cost savings of natural gas I never would've touched it.

Fred

@apraetor That boiler hasn't been skimmed. The green stuff is most likely Squick, a chemical cleaner. Drain the boiler and refill it and then do a good slow skim. I can see the oil and condensate on the top half of the sight glass. A clear indication that it needs skimming

Charlie from wmass

Old boilers often appear to have Crystal Clear Water because the sight glasses are so clogged you're not getting a true reading of what the water looks like inside the system. The water should look like weak tea.

apraetor

Thanks! Will do tomorrow and report back. It started surging after the first day or two, so I assumed that it was oil from the new piping that had gotten washed back into the boiler.. but it's probably all the new boiler oils, if it hasn't ever been skimmed.

Do I need to let the boiler cool down for more than an hour prior to draining and refilling? I don't want to risk damaging the cast iron with thermal stress.

You can get a sense of the installer's workmanship by the proximity of the boiler service switch to the gas line. That's actually been fixed; the building inspector called him out on it. That and the lack of a check valve on the water supply.

nicholas bonham-carter

You can also get a sense of his installing skills, with the reducing coupling on the riser from the boiler, which will shoot more water up into the mains with the steam.
Check the installation manual for required pipe sizes on the supply riser, and the equalizer, as these piping arrangements are necessary for good operation, and continuation of the boiler warranty. —NBC

apraetor

Yeah, it was less than ideal. The install manual does say the riser needs to be 2-1/2" or greater; he reduced it from 3" to 2-1/2" so it might be not-ideal, but it is still within what they specified.

KC_Jones

Reduced in the horizontal of the header which is a big no no as well. Not the end of the world, just very poor practice.

apraetor

Alright so I drained the boiler, refilled and drain again.. rinse, lather, repeat.

Going to let it run tonight, then repeat the process tomorrow after it's run with clean water for a bit to flush any other residue down. Then I'll skim it good.

Any other suggestions? (Besides find a better boiler man for regular service?)

I would've hired a pro to do this, but this site doesn't list anyone in CT!

Charlie from wmass

Draining the boiler is not the same as skimming the boiler.

Jamie Hall

In CT? @dobro23 is active down on the Gold Coast, and @Charlie from wmass works in the state and there are one or two other guys I know, but I can't think of their names right now.

apraetor

I know skimming =/= draining, but my thought process was "water is really foul, drain, drain, drain, then skim once it's otherwise clean". Did I get that wrong?

The squick was foaming as I drained it off! That can't have been good, it must've been working up a lather in the boiler, no?

Charlie from wmass

Every time you drain the boiler without skimming first you're coating the whole inside of the boiler with the top film of the water.

brandonf

> @DanHolohan said:
> I knew oldtimers who would work with a bucket of sudsy water. After they threaded a pipe, they'd use the water to clean off the oil. It made a difference.

I was just thinking to myself how come nobody washes the pipes after they thread them? Simple dish detergent would do the trick for a good majority of the oils. And it can be dried off with towels and compressed air.

brandonf

Makes you wonder if it's worth taking the boiler sections to a machine shop to hot tank them and get all the oils out, then assemble the boiler. Just a thought. That's how they get engine blocks clean.

Charlie from wmass

skimming works that is why we don't.

Fred

@brandonf, it's not worth going to that extreme. All it takes is someone who will take the time to SKIM.

brandonf

Oh ok.

Justin_11

Just wanted to chime in here as the OP. We eventually resolved the problem by having the installer doing a number of cleanings with TSP. I think at one point they put the TSP in, heated up the boiler and then ran a pump out from the skim port and into one of the bottom ports to circulate the TSP. They did a few of these in a row each day, and probably came back to do it 2-3 times.

We never identified where the smell was coming from. At one point I took an endoscope (camera on the end of a bendy wire), drained the boiler and looked around inside. I was honestly expecting to see a screwdriver or something melted in there, but didn't see anything.

I'll add that throughout this whole process I did *many* slow skims of the boiler. Early on I got an attachment for the skim port to run a hose to a nearby drain. That meant that I could skim for hours, really, really slowly.

While I'm sure the skimming made a difference, it was never able to mitigate the chemical smell on its own.

I also installed two of the Barnes & Jones Big Mouth Air Vents on the recommendation of folks here. While I'm sure that helped the system out overall, that also didn't make a noticeable dent in the smell.

Something in the system was just... wrong. I wish I knew what it was. My best guess after all this is that it was oils that were in the boiler when it was installed, which then got spread around the system because the installers didn't skim it after they installed it.

One of the reasons I wanted to post this update was to thank all the folks on this forum. You all are life savers. I cannot imagine getting through that month-and-a-half-from-hell without the support of this crew. And @DanHolohan, thanks for your advice, and thanks for operating such a great site.

DanHolohan

Thanks! And thanks to @Erin Holohan Haskell for keeping this site up and running and healthy. I'm proud of my daughter.

Erin Holohan Haskell

Thanks!

EBEBRATT-Ed

I just complete an install on a Smith 28-12 which is a large commercial boiler which I posted seperatly on.

This had a Carlin 2 stage oil burner (12 gph low fir -22 gph hi fire). When starting this just running low fire the water level was all over the place, bouncing, tripping low water cutoff, black sight glass etc.

I put 5.5 lbs of TSP in it (Smith recommends 1lb/50 gallons of boiler water) brought it up to a boil, shut the burner down and started skimming.

The difference was amazing.

It took about 2 hours before the water looked clean. It probably skimmed for a total of 4 hours. After this I flushed and refilled and started. Now it runs high fire and the water level in the gage glass moves less than 1/4"

Time will tell if it needs more skimming but looks really good right now

scottnjr

ChrisJ said:

Fred said:

In case you guys haven't looked, my roll of Blue Monster tape says "Made in China" While it may not be the tape, anything made in China is suspect, in my mind.

Including the device you're posting from?
All of the electronics in your house and likely most of the electrical components? 80% of the components your car(s) are made from?

Hmmm

are you still such a big fan of China? lol

Tim_D

Looks like they reused the Hartford loop. It may not be at the correct level. Also, you can not properly skim with an elbow and drop on the skim tapping. My guess is that there is cutting oil on top of the water. Now that it has made steam it is going to rough to get out. Follow the post that Dan made with the instructions for cleaning a steam boiler. If that fails you may have to open it up and wash it.

Fred

@Justin_11 , see the update from @scottnjr :
https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/161164/new-steam-boiler-install-chemical-smell-in-house#latest

ethicalpaul

as if any more opinions are needed on this thread, I'll throw a couple in.

The smell was described as "burning plastic". Boiling plastic or plastic-like stuff (even the dreaded blue tape) cannot cause a "burned plastic" smell. It's just not hot enough.

I say it's coming from the fire side or adjacent. Some piece of packing material, a tool, or something is too close to fire. The smell isn't coming from the radiators at all.

Charlie from wmass

@ethicalpaul it could get hot enough above the water line within the boiler to burn plastic. But that smells should be long gone by now. I recently installed a Utica commercial boiler that uses a sealant called grrip. I don't want to go back and reread the whole thread as to the boiler brand. But the smell off of this sealant sounds like the description in this thread. I can't imagine it's still being in the boiler after all this time now.