Awful smell & health concerns from new Weil McLain install

Charlie from wmass

Is the smell anything like burning plastic?

Charlie from wmass

The one I had to fish it out had just fallen and as I tried to remove it and the boiler was dry so it was not that big of a deal to hook it with a wire and pull it out

Justin_11

@Charlie from wmass the smell is exactly like burning plastic.

Leon82

Can you fit one of those little mirrors inside? Maybe you can spot it floating.

I wonder if you can rent one of those bore cameras from a place like autozone.

Charlie from wmass

I wonder if they left the labels on the flue collector and drafthood?

ChrisJ

Charlie from wmass said:

I wonder if they left the labels on the flue collector and drafthood?

I did on mine and they never really smell and they were completely faded within a week. I think they were a glossy paper. Doubt it would've ended up in the system regardless.

BobC

Something is is the boiler water, about how many hours has the boiler operated? If the crud is coming from the piping it has to be brought up to steam a lot so the piping can get cleaned.

Oils or otherwise the cure is to EMPTY THE BOILER COMPLETELY and wash it out with the wand using hot water, this might have to be done several times.

If that doesn't solve it I'd add some TSP or washing soda to to help clean it out.

Bob

Sailah

You can get a cheap borescope that runs on USB

http://www.amazon.com/DBPOWER-Waterproof-Borescope-Endoscope-Inspection/dp/B01M63KHKN/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1478791740&sr=8-1&keywords=usb+borescope

Fred

At that price it is well worth getting one and running it into the skim port to see if there is something in the boiler.

Justin_11

JohnNY said:

Why is no one commenting on the bull-fed tee on the main?

@Fred @ChrisJ @Ironman What does that mean, "bull-fed tee on the main?"

Are there other things you notice about the piping that may need to be addressed?

@Ironman To your question - yes, the piping with the visible pipe dope is new, and the other stuff is much older.

Charlie from wmass

@Justin the term is bullhead tee. It is feeding from the side to two different directions. No one mentioned that because it does not effect smell and despite it not being ideal is not always the end of the world.

Gordo

Just to show how bad some contamination can get, here is a video of a sight glass of a boiler when lye (NaOH) was inadvertently added when one radiator was paint-stripped and repainted.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VHVSAUCSv3U

MikeB001

I also had a new boiler installed and there is a smell when it runs.....I didn't think much of it since the boiler has only been operating for under ~8 hours or so. I also noticed the site glass has some foam.
Does this indicate it needs skimmed?
Is it a best practice to install a valve on the skimming port?

And I'm not sure if my contractor perform the skimming, I'm concerned he has not.

Thank you.
-Mike

Fred

Yes, it sounds like the boiler needs skimming. Putting a full port valve on the skim port (with a brass plug in it when not in use) will save you a lot of time over the long term. That boiler will need multiple skims over the next 30 to 60 days.

EBEBRATT-Ed

a smell on a new start-up is normal but shouldn't last more than a day. Skimming is seldom optional. Pretty rare to get a new boiler that doesn't need some skimming

Gordo

This is the same boiler as shown above after several long skimmings and flushings. It is now heating the house with a pressure of 4 inches of water. It took a long time to get it to this point.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YC539iC6dCs

scottnjr

if thats blue monster ptfe tape, that is the cause. (i think)

Koan

I would skim first for a couple hours. It looks like whatever is in the sight glass is floating. Maybe see what comes out of the boiler drain as well, or if it even is operational. After skimming drain it down, then add some some TSP in with fresh water and fire it. Skim again for a couple hours. Then wand it sectioni by section as Gerry Gill shows. I had to skim my boiler 4 times after wanding it to get the sight glass to not show condensation. I had to wand mine for half a day before the water ran clear. Made an immense difference. I removed pounds of crud.

There is some contaminant in your boiler and its smell is being pushed out of the vent when the steam starts pushing the air out. Other than disassembly, skimming (to get the floating part) then wanding it your best bet.

Charlie from wmass

Every boiler that I have installed in the last 6 years I have used Blue Monster PTFE. I do not have any odor complaints on any of them.

ChrisJ

Blue monster tape is PTFE tape and it's not the cause. PTFE doesn't breakdown at 212-215F, not even close. Perhaps closer to 400F I would be concerned.

I've never smelled anything from any of it on my system. Megaloc dope does have a smell for a bit, but I found it rather pleasant, sizzling and bubbling on the pipes.

LionA29

It's probably from the oil inside the pipes and nipples they cut along with the manufacturer 's oil inside the sections if any. So it's all making a nice boil. Therefore with all the members recommendation of a good flush and skim, you should be good to go. The OP is a few months old, are you still having the same problem @Justin ?

Fred

In case you guys haven't looked, my roll of Blue Monster tape says "Made in China" While it may not be the tape, anything made in China is suspect, in my mind.

ChrisJ

Fred said:

In case you guys haven't looked, my roll of Blue Monster tape says "Made in China" While it may not be the tape, anything made in China is suspect, in my mind.

Including the device you're posting from?
All of the electronics in your house and likely most of the electrical components? 80% of the components your car(s) are made from?

Hmmm

Fred

ChrisJ said:

Fred said:

In case you guys haven't looked, my roll of Blue Monster tape says "Made in China" While it may not be the tape, anything made in China is suspect, in my mind.

Including the device you're posting from?
All of the electronics in your house and likely most of the electrical components? 80% of the components your car(s) are made from?

Hmmm

Cheap is one thing @ChrisJ , unsafe is another. I mean wasn't it China that used substitute materials to make flooring and Drywall that had to be torn out of many new homes because of Off-gassing of fomaldehydes ? Weren't they growing fish for export in their open sewer systems? Weren't they the ones using ground chalk and other chemicals in baby formula? It would be nothing for them to use formaldehyde based products to make Blue Monster tape and we certainly don't know how much testing Mills Rose does on that tape or other dopes.
EDIT: Aren't they the ones that substituted lead based paints on children's toys? Aren't they the ones that did not use the flame retardants on infant clothing that were labeled as Flame retardant? The list goes on and on.

MilanD

FWIW, there was a thread here a few months ago about the smell after new boiler install. If memory serves me, they tried everything to no avail (skimming, cleaning, wanding, flushing and cleaning the radiators...). In the end OP had all the new fittings taken apart, and there were blue ptfe shreds sitting across the pipes like so Ø on the inside. OP had this removed and the smell went away. There was a lively discussion back then too, of impossibility of the blue ptfe tape causing the stench.

Fred

Yes @MilanD , I think it was this link:
http://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/157986/asthma-attacks-from-new-steam-boiler-please-help/p1

MilanD

@Fred that's it.

Charlie from wmass

They executed the people who messed with the baby formula btw. I would say that would deter people from trying similar things.

MilanD

> @Charlie from wmass said:
> They executed the people who messed with the baby formula btw. I would say that would deter people from trying similar things.

There were children dead from this horrible act. Just amazing how unscrupulous a person can be. Yes, a head shorter should be a good deterrent. The story then proceeded to how Chinese consumers trust only American-made products, esp. baby food...

nicholas bonham-carter

Maybe you could buy some blue monster tape, and boil it in water to see if the smell appears. This would provide proof to the installers that repiping/retapping is needed.--NBC

Charlie from wmass

I will boil some tonight in a closed pot. In fact I will use a pressure cooker set to 5 psi.

ChrisJ

@Fred
While Formaldehyde may be used to make your toiletpaper, I don't see any reason it would be in PTFE tape regardless of origin or quality.

Do you?

ratio

While I don't believe that the Blue Monster tape is the culprit (even that "charred blackened bits from inside the pipe" were obviously just the compressed tape from inside the threads themselves), it appears to be the only lead we have at this time. I'd be interested in seeing just what happens to some under steam conditions; with the understanding that the sample is of the actual tape used on the problem job. Maybe there's a counterfeit product being moved somewhere?

Charlie from wmass

Blue monster was never American made. It was an Australian product on startup. Not that it matters to the discussion.

ChrisJ

Charlie from wmass said:

Blue monster was never American made. It was an Australian product on startup. Not that it matters to the discussion.

OMG!
It may have had vegemite in it!

ratio

I thought that was for sandwiches?!?

ChrisJ

ratio said:

I thought that was for sandwiches?!?

Fred

ChrisJ said:

@Fred
While Formaldehyde may be used to make your toiletpaper, I don't see any reason it would be in PTFE tape regardless of origin or quality.

Do you?

@Chris, I didn't see any reason for baby formula to contain chalk either. Besides, reread my comment. I didn't say the PTFE contained Formaldehyde. I sited examples of where Chinese manufacturers produced products that contained materials and substitutes that were not expected or anticipated. And yes, I do see a reason for these kinds of substitute ingredients. They are cheaper, they increase short term profitability and, in some cases the manufacturers are unscrupulous, just to name a few.
I certainly am not saying the tape is the source of the smell but, nothing can be ruled out until it is proven not to be suspect or it is taken completely out of the equation.

Koan

It seems the definitive test would be to have the tape at the scene of the OP analyzed to make sure. We agree Teflon tape should not be the problem. But it is possible it was not what it should be.

ChrisJ

Fred said:

ChrisJ said:

@Fred
While Formaldehyde may be used to make your toiletpaper, I don't see any reason it would be in PTFE tape regardless of origin or quality.

Do you?

@Chris, I didn't see any reason for baby formula to contain chalk either. Besides, reread my comment. I didn't say the PTFE contained Formaldehyde. I sited examples of where Chinese manufacturers produced products that contained materials and substitutes that were not expected or anticipated. And yes, I do see a reason for these kinds of substitute ingredients. They are cheaper, they increase short term profitability and, in some cases the manufacturers are unscrupulous, just to name a few.
I certainly am not saying the tape is the source of the smell but, nothing can be ruled out until it is proven not to be suspect or it is taken completely out of the equation.

Formaldehyde can make certain produces cheaper to produce, but it it self is not cheap. It can also make superior products, though is toxic. My comment about your toilet paper wasn't sarcasm, it's often used to make such products.


Also, you did say that.

"It would be nothing for them to use formaldehyde based products to make Blue Monster tape and we certainly don't know how much testing Mills Rose does on that tape or other dopes."


Formaldehyde would have absolutely no benefit in making PTFE tape. It would be costly, not a cheap filler.

For the record, I do not eat, nor do I allow my children to eat anything made in China. I agree with you there.


Cheers.