Septic/well system

Canucker

I thought this might just be the best place to get some knowledge that I'm currently lacking. A series of fortuitous events have led to the possibility of purchasing a large property that is located out of town. It has a well and septic system. In trying to do my due diligence, I have to admit that I have no experience living with either for any length of time, let alone on a property that I may purchase. So, getting to the point, what should I be looking for/asking about the well and septic? What are the deal breakers I should be trying to avoid? At this point I'm trying to get a knowledge base just so I can ask the right questions, so I figure this would be the best place to ask. Thanks in advance.

This is the listing, if you're curious
http://www.remax.ca/on/thorndale-real-estate/na-22076-nissouri-rd-ldnst_582351-lst/

Jamie Hall

There are a lot of properties which depend on wells and septic systems! They are hardly unique -- is some places they are the only thing available.

To look for. On the well, it would not be a bad idea to have the water tested for drinking water. This is a fairly straightforward test and, in fact, the local public health folks may do it for free.

You may or, more likely, may not be able to get information about the depth to water, depth to pump, type of pump, and yield of the well -- and on yield, most residential wells don't have a usable yield test anyway. If the plumbing is done right, even a remarkably anaemic well will be more than adequate for most uses.

Obviously, you should know where the well is...

Septic systems are pretty simple: you have a septic tank and a leaching field. Some jurisdictions require that the septic tank be pumped out as part of a property transfer. It should be done, whether it's required or not. You should also find out exactly where the leaching field is, and if at all possible when it was installed. Again, your public health people may have this information. You would do well to inspect the leaching field area, although a truly failed field, while pretty obvious, is also pretty rare. A failed field is not a deal breaker -- but the cost of repair/replacement should be factored in, in the odd chance that you should encounter that.

As to longevity and using the house? As far as use, not much different from living on city water and city sewer -- except for one thing: I have always recommended against garbage grinders. They are bad enough on city sewage, but they are really tough on septic systems. Otherwise chances are you'll never notice any difference.

If you have more detailed questions, feel free to PM me -- I've been working with wells and septic systems for most of my professional career -- say five decades or so!

SWEI

Jamie covered most of it. If I had the luxury, I'd also ask for a draw-down test on the well and a perc test on the septic leachfield.

rick in Alaska

Definitely have a water test done along with a flow test. Some loans you get have that as a requirement. I think with FHA the well has to flow at least 5gpm. but can't remember. Get a full water test to make sure you don't have such things as arsenic or iron. That would let you know if the water would need to be treated.
Rick

Canucker

Thank you gentlemen, the info is appreciated.
@Jamie Hall I may take you up on the offer, depending how far this process goes, thanks.

Condoman

I live in Connecticut and the rule here is the well head must be at least 75 feet from the septic.

Other than that a rule of thumb: "If it does not go through you (a human), it does not go in the septic", TP excepted.

jumper

Pays to check history of water table. Sometimes cycle means trucked in water.

Jamie Hall

jumper said:

Pays to check history of water table. Sometimes cycle means trucked in water.

Shouldn't be a problem where the house in question is. It can be a problem with very old shallow wells -- in which case the remedy is a better, deeper well, which should be done for safety anyway! -- or in the midwestern US and prairie Canada, or especially in California, both of which are areas where the good folks who live there are mining water -- that is, taking more out of the ground than can be recharged by natural precipitation.

JUGHNE

Condoman; so you are saying that grey water should not go thru the septic tank? (In CT anyway)

Jamie Hall

I hope not. In Connecticut, it should and, in any event, it must go into the leach field. I'm not saying that this is the best way to do it, mind, but it is the way it is required to be done. The whole thing can get a little complicated... but a properly sized septic tank and leach field combination is pretty close to bulletproof (except, as I noted, garbage grinders -- that's a matter of excess very poorly digestible (in the sewage treatment sense!) solids, which septic tanks don't like).

There is the matter of nitrate contamination of ground water. This can be a very serious problem in some restricted watersheds (and rivers/lakes/sounds/ whatever) and is surprisingly intractable -- although again, a properly designed leach field can reduce or very nearly eliminate it as a problem.

And on the subject of what gets into the system... we used to have a saying that if it could be flushed, it would turn up in the sewers eventually, and you'd better design to handle it! You wouldn't believe what a pair of panty hose can do to a centrifugal pump...

JUGHNE

So years ago rural homeowners wanted the grey water to be connected to the outlet of the septic tank, (leach field). In their mind the less that went into the tank the better. I plumbed accordingly to their wishes. Only the WC's and maybe the wet vent lav sink would go to the tank.

This was fine until one home which was VA financed, they inspected the plumbing DWV and said all must go thru the tank. They were the ones with the checkbook so money talks.
(Actually it was surprising that they went into the crawlspace to see that drainage set up).

Just a few years ago I read an article about not putting grey water into the leach/drainage fields. It seem that the kit sink discharge of grease and detergent would build up in the field and plug the slots of the piping...........it is easier to pump out a septic tank than clean out a drainfield is the way I see it now.
(Also they noted the concern of any fecal matter from showering or laundry going to the drain field untreated )......how has the human race made it this far???.......I never have seen a hand washing sink at any outhouse that I have ever used.

I was only the "inside" plumber then and now avoid most plumbing jobs if possible. Last week a customer of 20 years ago called about his drain tile/field being blocked and backing up in the floor drain when the washer pumped out. He has only one lateral that can be augured without much grief. We discussed the grey water system and he may decide to run all thru the tank.

Condoman

No, gray water is fine. I was just repeating what the septic inspector said at the pre-closing and required inspection.

And absolutely no garbage spinners.

SWEI

Kitchen sinks are considered black water and are piped to the septic along with the toilets. The rest of the drains get piped to a 3-way valve (or a pair of ball valves) so it can be sent either to the garden or to the septic. At least that's how it's done here.

Jamie Hall

SWEI said:

Kitchen sinks are considered black water and are piped to the septic along with the toilets. The rest of the drains get piped to a 3-way valve (or a pair of ball valves) so it can be sent either to the garden or to the septic. At least that's how it's done here.

That's much the best way to do it -- assuming that your local plumbing and public health folks will let you. Gets the grease and so on from the kitchen sink into the septic tank, which can handle it. Dishwasher too, if you have one.

SWEI

Jamie Hall said:

Gets the grease and so on from the kitchen sink into the septic tank, which can handle it. Dishwasher too, if you have one.

Unless there's a grease trap in the line, as I recently learned. They want them teed in downstream in order to prevent the effluent (a slug of very hot water and soap) from emulsifying the grease in the trap.

MikeL_2

When testing the well water for potability & physical characteristics, include a test for radon; radon aeration systems can be costly.
A wells recovery rate, depth, and static water level help determine pump size - chances are a smaller pump ( 1/3, 1/2 hp) may indicate plenty of water / recovery and a high static level.
High static levels are not always ideal; low ph water will corrode iron well casings and could elevate the waters iron count, often, you can get an idea of well water quality by inspecting toilet tanks, or drawing water from the bottom of tank type water heaters .........

Larry Weingarten

Hi, One other thing to look at is what the septic tank is made of, and what it's age is. I've dealt with wooden tanks. They love to collapse. Concrete tanks are good for a while, but can erode away at and above the water line. Plastic is probably the longest lived, but make sure it stays full, if groundwater is high as the tank can float up if empty.

About the well casing, what's it made of? Steel casing has a limited life. PVC holds up better to corrosive soils. Where I am in California, a well drillers report will give info about the well, it's depth and performance.

Yours, Larry

Jon_blaney

Try to get the septic system maintenance history. Some places require regular inspections. Some locals require special systems because of their location (near river or ocean for example}. Special means $$$$$ cost.

Garbage disposers are ok if you manage what goes in them. Have had one for 30 years with no problems, just no meat, bones or fat. Fat management is always an issue.

Bank will probably require well and septic inspection as part of the loan application.

EBEBRATT-Ed

well and septic inspections are required in some locations. I know in MA pretty sure the septic is maybe the well I am not sure

JakeCK

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Necromancy

ethicalpaul

In summer 2020 I was looking for a house for my mother in lower upstate NY. The first house, I found a septic inspector guy who was great. If you use one I recommend finding one who is not affiliated with a septic service-providing organization, but rather an independent inspector. He won't have any dogs in the fight.

This house was a decades-vacant flip that had a very sketchy septic situation which could not even be inspected completely because of how weird it was. I wanted a credit to partially cover the replacement of the old steel tank (no longer code compliant) and they wouldn't budge so I walked. The well was also delivering mud to the fixtures (which I only discovered because the septic inspector ran all the faucets for 30 minutes to test the septic), that wasn't great either.

The house that I ended up buying was newer, and had been lived in continuously and I was more desperate so I didn't even have the septic inspected. But I did do a water quality test on the well. All was well haha.

Jamie Hall

@Larry Weingarten made a comment up there about well casings. It's not just the material that is important, it's how it was installed. Of course, there is wide variation -- a well installed by driving into fine to medium sand is one thing; one drilled 250 feet into hard rock is quite a different critter.

But a few comment -- mostly on rock wells. The driller's report -- which should be on file in the local town or health district -- may, or may usually not, be particularly helpful. Things to look for are the material of the casing and screen, if any (most likely none in rock), depth, and estimated yield. Take the estimated yield with a large grain of salt; it's usually wildly optimistic. Once in along time, though, they will actually tell you how the casing was installed in rock: what should happen is that the well is drilled oveersize (for example: 8 inch for a 4 inch well) about ten feet into rock. The casing is lowered in, and then is grouted from the bottom up. Then you go back in with your rig and drill the rest of the depth. Right. What usually happens is that the well is drilled slightly oversize about ten feet into the rock and the casing is then pounded in and grouted -- if at all -- from the top. If the well pumps silt or sand, particularly after a rain, it's probably the latter -- and the casing (particularly plastic, but also steel) has split from being pounded on. Not much you can do about it other than a filter, but you should be a little wary of what you do right around the well head.

Gsmith

Ask any of the nearby neighbors that have wells how their well water quality is, taste and odor wise. Try to find out what type of rock formation the well is drilled in, if in shale, get the well water tested for sulfates/sulfides. My brother lives in a place with high sulfur compounds in the well water and it is nearly impossible to shower there because of the small (sulfur gives rotten egg odor).