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Life Span of Pro Press fittings?

Le John
Le John Member Posts: 197
What is the life span of a pro press fitting? By that I mean the life span of the O rings.

Comments

  • hot_rod
    hot_rod Member Posts: 15,066
    It depends greatly on the conditions that the ring is exposed to. I think the Viega system has about a 25 year or more track record in Europe?

    I think keeping the ring sealed from UV makes a difference.
    Bob "hot rod" Rohr
    trainer for Caleffi NA
    Living the hydronic dream
  • kcopp
    kcopp Member Posts: 3,830
    Think about cast iron boilers w/ O-rings in them. Some do better than others. All depends on the water. Water treatment is a good plan regardless.
    Derheatmeister
  • BerntKruse
    BerntKruse Member Posts: 5
    It should be more than 25 years.

    MadecksMechanical1
  • newagedawn
    newagedawn Member Posts: 586
    i have some going 10 yrs now, no leaks!!!!
    "The bitter taste of a poor install lasts far longer than the JOY of the lowest price"
  • ratio
    ratio Member Posts: 2,936
    I keep going back to how often I have to replace my windshield wipers. (I know, I know, not really a true comparison, but rhetoric)

    I still think we're in the early-adopters phase. That said, the company just picked up a Ridgid (IIRC) ProPress tool, that thing is FAST FAST FAST! I can see why people use it, you can pipe circles around a threader.

  • EBEBRATT-Ed
    EBEBRATT-Ed Member Posts: 10,374
    Could be wrong I usually am but I think Viega promotes the "O" ring to last 50 years. I think I started pressing about 15 years ago. The first propress we had was the 120 volt corded one with the non swivel head
  • Jamie Hall
    Jamie Hall Member Posts: 17,165
    If the O ring is chemically compatible with the medium being sealed, and it is protected from strong oxidizers (particularly ozone) and UV light, it should last practically forever.

    Chemical compatibility is a big issue with hydrocarbons and solvents, but really shouldn't be a problem with any reasonable water chemistry (although I can think of some boiler additives which could be problematic).

    It's the oxidizers and UV which do in windshield wipers, by the way. Even very high quality ones don't last more than a few months.
    Br. Jamie, osb
    Building superintendent/caretaker, 7200 sq. ft. historic house museum with dependencies in New England
    Derheatmeister
  • NY_Rob
    NY_Rob Member Posts: 1,370
    Even a 50 year O-ring lifespan is troubling when you consider that many fittings will be buried behind Sheetrock walls or between floors.

    My house was built in 1964... if they had Pro-Press back then... I'd be seriously concerned about concealed leaks at this point 53 years later. At least with old-school solder joints you generally expect them to stay intact till you rip them out.
    j a_2Solid_Fuel_ManMaxMercyMikeAmann
  • I've read that they don't add chlorine to the water in Europe, I wonder if our chlorine infused water will eat them up quicker?

    Thanks, Bob Gagnon
    To learn more about this professional, click here to visit their ad in Find A Contractor.
  • Canucker
    Canucker Member Posts: 703
    > @NY_Rob said:
    > Even a 50 year O-ring lifespan is troubling when you consider that many fittings will be buried behind Sheetrock walls or between floors.
    >
    > My house was built in 1964... if they had Pro-Press back then... I'd be seriously concerned about concealed leaks at this point 53 years later. At least with old-school solder joints you generally expect them to stay intact till you rip them out.

    I've fixed soldered joints that have sprung leaks. When I inspected the joints, the leakers seemed to be the ones that weren't reamed properly after they were cut. I'm guessing that the speed of the flow and the turbulence eroded the metal, causing it to leak. Fortunately they've been pinholes that were caught before there was too much damage. The o-rings wouldn't bother me as long as you pay attention to the chemicals it may interact with, like @Jamie Hall said
    You can have it good, fast or cheap. Pick two
    Rich_49
  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 11,985
    I only allow type K copper pipe brazed in my house.

    One can never be too careful you know. :)


    /Sarcasm.
    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
    Canuckerdelcrossv
  • hot_rod
    hot_rod Member Posts: 15,066
    I'm wondering if the rings may outlast the tube itself. With changing water quality and more aggressive chemicals being used by water providers, that may become more the issue

    Flint MI was an example of how the water quality changes the game.

    Every plumbing and hydronic system has an assortment of seal failure potential.

    The difference being the number of rings in a system.
    Bob "hot rod" Rohr
    trainer for Caleffi NA
    Living the hydronic dream
  • jumper
    jumper Member Posts: 1,719
    If one wants to worry,how about PVC water mains?
  • clammy
    clammy Member Posts: 2,668
    i recently did some work for the first time w pro press for a contractor and as much as i am old school i will admitt it was nice fast no torch .They did have a swivel attachment which made getting into tight spots ok .thats about the upside i see aside from repair larger stuff quickly .The downside i see is have all the proper hanging and support stuff stuff that most are use to using on sweat stuff don t work when u have to get the press tool in there,but to get to the o ring dealo .It seems to me if the pipe is not prepped properly (cut w tubing cutter ect)then u are doom ed.I was recently at a supply house i frequent and saw a pile of propress fitting that had failed after looking inside i saw pipes that where cut with a saw all w nasty burrs ,pipes that on the inside of the fittings where crushed and very deformed and some that where not inserted enough but the contractor is trying to return because they leaked i highly doubt they will see a penny .As for the o ring and leaks i m confused because when i see a drip or a ring of calicum on a solder joint it means it needs to be repaired or replaced but w propress it not a leak untill its pouring peace and good luck clammy
    R.A. Calmbacher L.L.C. HVAC
    NJ Master HVAC Lic.
    Mahwah, NJ
    Specializing in steam and hydronic heating
  • hot_rod
    hot_rod Member Posts: 15,066
    Time will tell, it is almost impossible to duplicate jobsite conditions in accelerated testing labs.

    Is 20, 30, or 50 years in service adequate to determine if you want to use a product?

    And even if they have lasted that long reliably, new water conditions or chemicals or o-ring materials could change their life expectancy in the future.

    I've not heard of major failures, maybe a handful have crossed this list over the years.
    How many million, probably hundreds of millions do you suppose are currently in service?

    We have seen plenty of failed black iron fittings here also, the lack of quality control on imported brands cause issue regardless of the type of fitting or name on the box.
    Bob "hot rod" Rohr
    trainer for Caleffi NA
    Living the hydronic dream
  • j a_2
    j a_2 Member Posts: 1,796
    Had my share of ward fittings with pin holes.....But I tried to avoid imports...As far as propress, I used them on occasion but was never proud as to how they looked...jmo
  • The claim you can take the Oring out and press the fitting and it won't leak. That's was on copper. The Oring is supposed to be added protection but I'm not about to try it to find out if it's true. 
    Derheatmeister
  • Derheatmeister
    Derheatmeister Member Posts: 1,140
    edited November 24

    The claim you can take the Oring out and press the fitting and it won't leak. That's was on copper. The Oring is supposed to be added protection but I'm not about to try it to find out if it's true. 

    Who is claiming this ? Will not work !
    One of my employees did it on a job and it does not work...We had to repipe it
  • Derheatmeister
    Derheatmeister Member Posts: 1,140
    My first Mannesman Black Joint was in respectfully pressed in 1981.
    This joint was pressed under guidance of a Mentor/Meister.
    This was very exciding day as we welded everthing up to then ...These Press systems are still Leak free.

    I think the first joints pressed in Europe was in 1963.(Finland)
    I frequently post on a German heating forum and will seed out the question regarding failures and life exspectancy of the O-Rings..

    Just keep in Mind that in Europe:
    1.The usage of Glycol/"Frostschutz" is rare and the VDI 2035 standard helps to keep system fluid in check so that the o-rings are not subject to unfaborable conditions...
    2. Trade Schools/"Industrie und Handelskammer/Innung" train the trades on how to install the product properly so that failures due to inproper installation technqics are reduced..
    3. Not all, but some of the piping systems are exposed so repairs on these systems are easy.

    Rich_49MaxMercyZman
  • hot_rod
    hot_rod Member Posts: 15,066

    My first Mannesman Black Joint was in respectfully pressed in 1981.
    This joint was pressed under guidance of a Mentor/Meister.
    This was very exciding day as we welded everthing up to then ...These Press systems are still Leak free.

    I think the first joints pressed in Europe was in 1963.(Finland)
    I frequently post on a German heating forum and will seed out the question regarding failures and life exspectancy of the O-Rings..

    Just keep in Mind that in Europe:
    1.The usage of Glycol/"Frostschutz" is rare and the VDI 2035 standard helps to keep system fluid in check so that the o-rings are not subject to unfaborable conditions...
    2. Trade Schools/"Industrie und Handelskammer/Innung" train the trades on how to install the product properly so that failures due to inproper installation technqics are reduced..
    3. Not all, but some of the piping systems are exposed so repairs on these systems are easy.

    I think glycol may be the biggest challenge. With any sealing material really.

    As you mentioned glycoled systems are rare in Europe, mostly outdoor applications, and much lower percentages are used. Most products manufactured in Europe are rated 30- 35% glycol. 50% or higher is used in the US.
    Possibly it is checked and maintained better?
    I know glycol in solar can pinhole collectors and piping in a relatively short time if the glycol is stagnated often and allowed to go acidic.
    Bob "hot rod" Rohr
    trainer for Caleffi NA
    Living the hydronic dream
    ZmanDerheatmeister
  • delcrossv
    delcrossv Member Posts: 177
    ChrisJ said:

    I only allow type K copper pipe brazed in my house.

    One can never be too careful you know. :)


    /Sarcasm.

    Umm. ;)
    Trying to squeeze the best out of a Weil-McLain JB-5 running a 1912 1 pipe system.
  • Derheatmeister
    Derheatmeister Member Posts: 1,140
    edited November 26
    My question to the German Heizungsforum

    What is the service life for press systems like Mannesmann / Viega?
    I know that the quality of the system filling and maintenance plays a role.
    Has anyone had a catastrophic failure? And why?


    The answer from Technican 2 including some links to some o ring research links as the following:


    Then have a look here in this technical file ... Because every press or O ring connection has its intended service life ...

    Quote: Has someone had a catastrophic failure? And why?

    That had to (unfortunately) be experienced by those in the USA in the space shuttle that the multiple reuse of a rubber seal element on the boster ultimately led to a complete failure and crash.

    Our old guild, Obermeister Chef, always said when this Viega Press technology was introduced. We are trained plumbers and have learned welding and soldering from the bottom up, and we allways ran with that. In the company,These new-fashioned press connections were only carried out in the clearly visible area, with a reasonable pipe fastening.

    There was another exception, on the farm on top of the straw or hayloft, where the open heating systems, the heating expansion vessel and the hot water storage tank were located. If there was an accident there, this press connection was allowed to be used in this fire-endangering zone.

    Everything else (in the wall or floor) there press connections were not allowed by the guild master plumber master. That has to Today so Enforced there, which then also by very few claims soConfirmed ... Remember, every installation has a predetermined lifespan.

    And here, you can learn a little more ..... about the topic of O ring damage ....


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