Life Span of Pro Press fittings?

Le John

What is the life span of a pro press fitting? By that I mean the life span of the O rings.

hot_rod

It depends greatly on the conditions that the ring is exposed to. I think the Viega system has about a 25 year or more track record in Europe?

I think keeping the ring sealed from UV makes a difference.

kcopp

Think about cast iron boilers w/ O-rings in them. Some do better than others. All depends on the water. Water treatment is a good plan regardless.

BerntKruse

It should be more than 25 years.

newagedawn

i have some going 10 yrs now, no leaks!!!!

ratio

I keep going back to how often I have to replace my windshield wipers. (I know, I know, not really a true comparison, but rhetoric)

I still think we're in the early-adopters phase. That said, the company just picked up a Ridgid (IIRC) ProPress tool, that thing is FAST FAST FAST! I can see why people use it, you can pipe circles around a threader.

EBEBRATT-Ed

Could be wrong I usually am but I think Viega promotes the "O" ring to last 50 years. I think I started pressing about 15 years ago. The first propress we had was the 120 volt corded one with the non swivel head

Jamie Hall

If the O ring is chemically compatible with the medium being sealed, and it is protected from strong oxidizers (particularly ozone) and UV light, it should last practically forever.

Chemical compatibility is a big issue with hydrocarbons and solvents, but really shouldn't be a problem with any reasonable water chemistry (although I can think of some boiler additives which could be problematic).

It's the oxidizers and UV which do in windshield wipers, by the way. Even very high quality ones don't last more than a few months.

NY_Rob

Even a 50 year O-ring lifespan is troubling when you consider that many fittings will be buried behind Sheetrock walls or between floors.

My house was built in 1964... if they had Pro-Press back then... I'd be seriously concerned about concealed leaks at this point 53 years later. At least with old-school solder joints you generally expect them to stay intact till you rip them out.

Bob Gagnon plumbing and heating

I've read that they don't add chlorine to the water in Europe, I wonder if our chlorine infused water will eat them up quicker?

Thanks, Bob Gagnon

Canucker

> @NY_Rob said:
> Even a 50 year O-ring lifespan is troubling when you consider that many fittings will be buried behind Sheetrock walls or between floors.
>
> My house was built in 1964... if they had Pro-Press back then... I'd be seriously concerned about concealed leaks at this point 53 years later. At least with old-school solder joints you generally expect them to stay intact till you rip them out.

I've fixed soldered joints that have sprung leaks. When I inspected the joints, the leakers seemed to be the ones that weren't reamed properly after they were cut. I'm guessing that the speed of the flow and the turbulence eroded the metal, causing it to leak. Fortunately they've been pinholes that were caught before there was too much damage. The o-rings wouldn't bother me as long as you pay attention to the chemicals it may interact with, like @Jamie Hall said

ChrisJ

I only allow type K copper pipe brazed in my house.

One can never be too careful you know.


/Sarcasm.

hot_rod

I'm wondering if the rings may outlast the tube itself. With changing water quality and more aggressive chemicals being used by water providers, that may become more the issue

Flint MI was an example of how the water quality changes the game.

Every plumbing and hydronic system has an assortment of seal failure potential.

The difference being the number of rings in a system.

jumper

If one wants to worry,how about PVC water mains?

clammy

i recently did some work for the first time w pro press for a contractor and as much as i am old school i will admitt it was nice fast no torch .They did have a swivel attachment which made getting into tight spots ok .thats about the upside i see aside from repair larger stuff quickly .The downside i see is have all the proper hanging and support stuff stuff that most are use to using on sweat stuff don t work when u have to get the press tool in there,but to get to the o ring dealo .It seems to me if the pipe is not prepped properly (cut w tubing cutter ect)then u are doom ed.I was recently at a supply house i frequent and saw a pile of propress fitting that had failed after looking inside i saw pipes that where cut with a saw all w nasty burrs ,pipes that on the inside of the fittings where crushed and very deformed and some that where not inserted enough but the contractor is trying to return because they leaked i highly doubt they will see a penny .As for the o ring and leaks i m confused because when i see a drip or a ring of calicum on a solder joint it means it needs to be repaired or replaced but w propress it not a leak untill its pouring peace and good luck clammy

hot_rod

Time will tell, it is almost impossible to duplicate jobsite conditions in accelerated testing labs.

Is 20, 30, or 50 years in service adequate to determine if you want to use a product?

And even if they have lasted that long reliably, new water conditions or chemicals or o-ring materials could change their life expectancy in the future.

I've not heard of major failures, maybe a handful have crossed this list over the years.
How many million, probably hundreds of millions do you suppose are currently in service?

We have seen plenty of failed black iron fittings here also, the lack of quality control on imported brands cause issue regardless of the type of fitting or name on the box.

j a_2

Had my share of ward fittings with pin holes.....But I tried to avoid imports...As far as propress, I used them on occasion but was never proud as to how they looked...jmo

MadecksMechanical1

The claim you can take the Oring out and press the fitting and it won't leak. That's was on copper. The Oring is supposed to be added protection but I'm not about to try it to find out if it's true. 

Derheatmeister

MadecksMechanical1 said:

The claim you can take the Oring out and press the fitting and it won't leak. That's was on copper. The Oring is supposed to be added protection but I'm not about to try it to find out if it's true. 

Who is claiming this ? Will not work !
One of my employees did it on a job and it does not work...We had to repipe it

Derheatmeister

My first Mannesman Black Joint was in respectfully pressed in 1981.
This joint was pressed under guidance of a Mentor/Meister.
This was very exciding day as we welded everthing up to then ...These Press systems are still Leak free.

I think the first joints pressed in Europe was in 1963.(Finland)
I frequently post on a German heating forum and will seed out the question regarding failures and life exspectancy of the O-Rings..

Just keep in Mind that in Europe:
1.The usage of Glycol/"Frostschutz" is rare and the VDI 2035 standard helps to keep system fluid in check so that the o-rings are not subject to unfaborable conditions...
2. Trade Schools/"Industrie und Handelskammer/Innung" train the trades on how to install the product properly so that failures due to inproper installation technqics are reduced..
3. Not all, but some of the piping systems are exposed so repairs on these systems are easy.

hot_rod

Derheatmeister said:

My first Mannesman Black Joint was in respectfully pressed in 1981.
This joint was pressed under guidance of a Mentor/Meister.
This was very exciding day as we welded everthing up to then ...These Press systems are still Leak free.

I think the first joints pressed in Europe was in 1963.(Finland)
I frequently post on a German heating forum and will seed out the question regarding failures and life exspectancy of the O-Rings..

Just keep in Mind that in Europe:
1.The usage of Glycol/"Frostschutz" is rare and the VDI 2035 standard helps to keep system fluid in check so that the o-rings are not subject to unfaborable conditions...
2. Trade Schools/"Industrie und Handelskammer/Innung" train the trades on how to install the product properly so that failures due to inproper installation technqics are reduced..
3. Not all, but some of the piping systems are exposed so repairs on these systems are easy.

I think glycol may be the biggest challenge. With any sealing material really.

As you mentioned glycoled systems are rare in Europe, mostly outdoor applications, and much lower percentages are used. Most products manufactured in Europe are rated 30- 35% glycol. 50% or higher is used in the US.
Possibly it is checked and maintained better?
I know glycol in solar can pinhole collectors and piping in a relatively short time if the glycol is stagnated often and allowed to go acidic.

delcrossv

ChrisJ said:

I only allow type K copper pipe brazed in my house.

One can never be too careful you know.


/Sarcasm.

Umm.

Derheatmeister

My question to the German Heizungsforum

What is the service life for press systems like Mannesmann / Viega?
I know that the quality of the system filling and maintenance plays a role.
Has anyone had a catastrophic failure? And why?


The answer from Technican 2 including some links to some o ring research links as the following:


Then have a look here in this technical file ... Because every press or O ring connection has its intended service life ...

Quote: Has someone had a catastrophic failure? And why?

That had to (unfortunately) be experienced by those in the USA in the space shuttle that the multiple reuse of a rubber seal element on the boster ultimately led to a complete failure and crash.

Our old guild, Obermeister Chef, always said when this Viega Press technology was introduced. We are trained plumbers and have learned welding and soldering from the bottom up, and we allways ran with that. In the company,These new-fashioned press connections were only carried out in the clearly visible area, with a reasonable pipe fastening.

There was another exception, on the farm on top of the straw or hayloft, where the open heating systems, the heating expansion vessel and the hot water storage tank were located. If there was an accident there, this press connection was allowed to be used in this fire-endangering zone.

Everything else (in the wall or floor) there press connections were not allowed by the guild master plumber master. That has to Today so Enforced there, which then also by very few claims soConfirmed ... Remember, every installation has a predetermined lifespan.

And here, you can learn a little more ..... about the topic of O ring damage ....


1637769260445.png

STEAM DOCTOR

Don't click on that "press fittings". This is obvious spam. 

ChrisJ

STEAM DOCTOR said:

Don't click on that "press fittings". This is obvious spam. 

Doesn't look malicious to me, but it is spam and advertising.

hot_rod

Derheatmeister said:

My question to the German Heizungsforum

What is the service life for press systems like Mannesmann / Viega?
I know that the quality of the system filling and maintenance plays a role.
Has anyone had a catastrophic failure? And why?


The answer from Technican 2 including some links to some o ring research links as the following:


Then have a look here in this technical file ... Because every press or O ring connection has its intended service life ...

Quote: Has someone had a catastrophic failure? And why?

That had to (unfortunately) be experienced by those in the USA in the space shuttle that the multiple reuse of a rubber seal element on the boster ultimately led to a complete failure and crash.

Our old guild, Obermeister Chef, always said when this Viega Press technology was introduced. We are trained plumbers and have learned welding and soldering from the bottom up, and we allways ran with that. In the company,These new-fashioned press connections were only carried out in the clearly visible area, with a reasonable pipe fastening.

There was another exception, on the farm on top of the straw or hayloft, where the open heating systems, the heating expansion vessel and the hot water storage tank were located. If there was an accident there, this press connection was allowed to be used in this fire-endangering zone.

Everything else (in the wall or floor) there press connections were not allowed by the guild master plumber master. That has to Today so Enforced there, which then also by very few claims soConfirmed ... Remember, every installation has a predetermined lifespan.

And here, you can learn a little more ..... about the topic of O ring damage ....


1637769260445.png

But Viega tells us it is not an o-ring? It's a sealing element, something like that.

mattmia2

I thought the space shuttle problem was that the o-ring was uses in a temperature for which the system wasn't designed.

ChrisJ

So,
O rings in car and truck transmissions and engines, refrigeration equipment and tools, oxy-acetylene torches, food production equipment , medical equipment etc all O-OK.

But low pressure plumbing in a house for water and it's crazy talk.

TAG

mattmia2 said:

I thought the space shuttle problem was that the o-ring was uses in a temperature for which the system wasn't designed.

bit more pressure as well

ratio

ChrisJ said:

So,
O rings in car and truck transmissions and engines, refrigeration equipment and tools, oxy-acetylene torches, food production equipment , medical equipment etc all O-OK.

But low pressure plumbing in a house for water and it's crazy talk.

I always think it's more a matter of old-way-that-I-know-works vs new-way-that-might-work-or-might-not.

FWIW, we got into reflock & back out in the space of a year or so.

TAG

ratio said:

ChrisJ said:

So,
O rings in car and truck transmissions and engines, refrigeration equipment and tools, oxy-acetylene torches, food production equipment , medical equipment etc all O-OK.

But low pressure plumbing in a house for water and it's crazy talk.

I always think it's more a matter of old-way-that-I-know-works vs new-way-that-might-work-or-might-not.

FWIW, we got into reflock & back out in the space of a year or so.

This is always a battle -- do you stick with old ways or move on.

The rubber tubing scared me back around 1990 when I was doing my first radiant job --- PEX had a history in Europe. I went with the PEX. I was doing an old 1810 federal and there was no way to pipe copper to the panel radiators. I see Shark B used in commercial now ... those things still give me the creeps ..... but -- they work.

pedmec

my company has been using nothing but press technology for the last 13 years and very rarely have had problems. In the Boston and surrounding areas we are required to pull a burn permit if we use our torch for anything. Some towns will even require the local fire department for a fire detail. It all depends on the town. So press eliminates the need for the extra overhead required to solder.

EBEBRATT-Ed

@pedmec

Your not kidding about the fire detail fire watch. I am from the other end of the state and retired now. But I did some jobs down that way when I was working and the fire dept rate was 1 1/2x their normal rate and we were welding in a concrete boiler room in a school. The "fire watch sat in his care reading p..n magazines while we worked, and we had to pay the rate.

pedmec

@EBEBRATT-Ed

And the really messed up part of it is that their only responsibility is to call the firehouse if a fire starts. I had to ask them. Paying 4 hour minimums and i wanted to know what i was paying for. 1 minute past the 4 hours your paying another 4 hours. what a gig.