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HELP please on my Lochinvar WHN085

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135

Comments

  • Paul48
    Paul48 Member Posts: 4,469
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    I'd like you and your family to be safe too. Best Wishes
  • maybemark
    maybemark Member Posts: 1,131
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    you certainly are changing your tune
    thanks
  • maybemark
    maybemark Member Posts: 1,131
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    is 1" gas pipe to 7' of 1/2" starving a boiler?
  • Gordy
    Gordy Member Posts: 9,546
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    Wow Mark settle down. I did not say rip anything out, or 1" is not okay. No one is not trying to help you.

    Stop comparing different peoples opinions. 10 people could have done this 10 different ways does not mean any of the 10 would not work done properly.

    Why things need to be verified like gas pressure is because if you don't test it you really don't know 100% for sure it's right unless you test it ,and rule it out as a possible issue same goes for combustion.

    We are all shooting from the hip unless we know the boilers programming is setup properly, and the ODR.

    Once all that is verified it becomes possibly a flow issue. You may have enough flow to keep the boiler from locking out on high temp, but not enough to get the system side the flow it needs to mimic the gravity flow it once had. Being the radiation is acting differently with the new circ .

    Boiler not reaching higher temp is as been said thermal equilibrium. Or possibly your ODR is working, and you don't realize it.
  • BobC
    BobC Member Posts: 5,478
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    Something in your system is not right so we have to eliminate possible causes to find the culprit. I would start by making sure the boiler is consuming the correct amount of gas. Clocking the gas meter takes 5 minutes, if it is consuming the right amount of gas you can cross that off your list of possibilities.

    http://fergusonhvacchicago.com/2013/08/21/determining-gas-furnace-btuh-output-clocking-the-gas-meter/

    This link gives you the procedure to clock the meter, make sure all other gas appliances are off when you do this.

    Bob
    Smith G8-3 with EZ Gas @ 90,000 BTU, Single pipe steam
    Vaporstat with a 12oz cut-out and 4oz cut-in
    3PSI gauge
  • maybemark
    maybemark Member Posts: 1,131
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    Gordy
    The ODR is working now, I figured that out the same day I didn't know how to figure it out.
    I can watch the set point rise, when the temp of the system is not rising.
    127 degrees was the highest it got for several hours of being on 100% flame
  • maybemark
    maybemark Member Posts: 1,131
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    I want to apologize to those I came too strong on yesterday. I am having a difficult time with my boiler, and I see today, I was way over the line yesterday.
    Most of you guys have been a big help to me. To the point of me taking on this project myself. I thank you for this
    Mark
  • Gordan
    Gordan Member Posts: 891
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    Mark, your boiler comes with a whole bunch of diagnostic features. It can tell you what percentage of burner output it's firing at. It can tell you what its target temperature is, while it's firing. It has the ability to artificially limit the modulation range during a heat call. All these things are in the manual. It seems like it would be a good idea to find out why you're only getting 127 degree water out of the boiler. This is likely an issue with settings. It would also be good to measure the inlet and outlet temperature at each radiator. A large temperature drop through a small radiator could indicate flow issues through that branch.

    It seems like there are a number of basic troubleshooting steps that you are missing, especially for someone who installed his own boiler. No offense intended, just my impression. Time to bring in qualified help?
  • maybemark
    maybemark Member Posts: 1,131
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    Gordan
    Yesterday when I noticed the problem, and someone suggested air problem, purge the system ,bring up the pressure and temp, try and get the air out by bleeding again
    I did all this
    My high set point is 180 degrees for my heat
    my high set point for my DHW is 135.
    I have no problem with getting to 135 on my DHW,
    My outside sensor started out in the very low hundreds, my firing was 100%, the boiler went from 105 to 120 semi quickly
    then from 120 to 127 took several hours, all this time, the set point all the way to the right in () rose up to the max. but the boiler could not go over 127. and this was for several hours.
    I have read the manual over and over, each time learning a little more, and from the help of this site, helped me thru alot of things.
    I appreciate your comments, but, I have gone this far, with the help of this site, I would like to be able to say in the end, I did this.
    And I think i could get there, with outbringing in qualified help, and listen to the comments of this site, to help me thru this
    I thank you for your comments
    mark
  • SWEI
    SWEI Member Posts: 7,356
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    SWEI said:

    Take a look a your Maximum SH Set Point parameter.

    Not sure we heard back on this one yet?
  • maybemark
    maybemark Member Posts: 1,131
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    180
  • SWEI
    SWEI Member Posts: 7,356
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    Thanks. Did you verify gas pressure at high fire?
  • maybemark
    maybemark Member Posts: 1,131
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    not yet
  • maybemark
    maybemark Member Posts: 1,131
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    Bob
    I measured 3 times 1/2 foot with flame at 100% and got 3 different numbers 18, 19, and 23. which should i calculate?
    can you help?
    thanks
    mark
  • maybemark
    maybemark Member Posts: 1,131
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    I am getting 84,000 btu's at 100% aprox.
  • Gordan
    Gordan Member Posts: 891
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    What's the system volume here, this being a gravity conversion? Can you disable setbacks?
  • Harvey Ramer
    Harvey Ramer Member Posts: 2,239
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    maybemark said:

    I am getting 84,000 btu's at 100% aprox.

    That's pretty much spot on. Once again, as long as it heats the house adequately you should be good.
  • maybemark
    maybemark Member Posts: 1,131
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    Harvey
    My problem isn't only it going up to 127, , it's not heating all the radiators. Plus, the coldest room before i made the change, now is the hottest room.
    Some think it's air bound, and i have been bleeding like crazy to try and get air out. just a small amount i got out so far
  • maybemark
    maybemark Member Posts: 1,131
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    Gordan
    this was a conversion done a very long time ago, the last radiator that was here that I had put in, was 35 years ago, then it had a Taco 007
    the system volumn I have no idea
  • Tom_133
    Tom_133 Member Posts: 884
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    Could you hand draw what your piping is doing from the boiler to the system? It seems like there is a valve shut off in the new cold room or something, you didn't by chance change the flow of your piping?
    Tom
    Montpelier Vt
  • maybemark
    maybemark Member Posts: 1,131
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    no valves shut off, and no change of flow, thanks Tom
  • maybemark
    maybemark Member Posts: 1,131
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    Tom
    In this post, I have a photo of the change from the boiler to the old pipping
  • maybemark
    maybemark Member Posts: 1,131
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    I just bled all the radiators again, under city pressure bypassing the boiler. Only 1 radiator had a small amout of air come ou, unless air was coming out with each time i bled it being under high pressure
  • Harvey Ramer
    Harvey Ramer Member Posts: 2,239
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    maybemark said:

    Harvey
    My problem isn't only it going up to 127, , it's not heating all the radiators. Plus, the coldest room before i made the change, now is the hottest room.
    Some think it's air bound, and i have been bleeding like crazy to try and get air out. just a small amount i got out so far

    If I remember correctly, the cold room is where you put the fan behind the radiator. Now this will exponentially increase the output of this radiator, making a separate thermostat to turn off the fan necessary. If I remember correctly, you were also advised to, since you put the fan in, move the main house thermostat to a different location.

    If I remember correctly the amount of radiation you have in the system, you were advised to install a circulator that would produce approximately 18gpm to the system. The best choice would be the B&G NRF-33 since you are pumping through the boiler and have additional losses in your piping configuration. This is not about achieving a higher Delta T across the boiler, but rather providing a better balance to the system and minimize the amount of manual balancing you have to do.

    That is all for now.
    GordyZman
  • maybemark
    maybemark Member Posts: 1,131
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    Harvey
    your memory is very good about the living room being the coldest, and putting a fan behind it.
    One thing you don't know, i stopped the fan durring th winter months.
    I don't remember saying I was going to chage the location of the stat. I didn't do that
    there is slight change of some piping , the near the boiler pip[ping is now 1", it was 1 1/4" before, with a boiler over 200000 btus. There was a taco 007 on the old boiler, now i have 15/58's
    Is that a big difference?
    I thank you very much for trying to figure out whats wrong.
    I appreciate it
    mark
  • Harvey Ramer
    Harvey Ramer Member Posts: 2,239
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    There is considerable difference between the pumps.
  • SWEI
    SWEI Member Posts: 7,356
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    This is a high flow, low head application. There may have been a Series 100 in there before the 007 was installed.

    If you still have the 007, you might try swapping that in.
  • maybemark
    maybemark Member Posts: 1,131
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    I don't have the 007 anymore
    I do appreciate all the possibilities your giving me.
    I see everyone has there own opinion, sometimes it's overwhelming for me, but now, it's helpful, more things to try and figure out what's going on
  • Harvey Ramer
    Harvey Ramer Member Posts: 2,239
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    I recommend the B&G NRF-33
    Gordy
  • maybemark
    maybemark Member Posts: 1,131
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    someone mentioned to me, they really do feel it's an air in the line problem. This is why I am not getting heat to some radiators. I do not have any reachable control valves in my living room which is where most of the heat is going
    I plan on putting control valves in the basementfor those 2 radiators

    funny thing, i have better heat on the 2nd floor, than i do, in the back half of my house except one radiator in the front of the house, in my entry way, is very poor heat
  • Harvey Ramer
    Harvey Ramer Member Posts: 2,239
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    Have you bled all the radiators with all the valves open?
  • maybemark
    maybemark Member Posts: 1,131
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    harvey
    can you help me understand why you suggest this pump to solve my problem?
  • maybemark
    maybemark Member Posts: 1,131
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    I bled them with all the valves closed, open the one that I am about to bleed then close it again
    today, I even went as far as putting city presure on the system, by passing the boiler, and bled each one, until I felt cold water
  • Harvey Ramer
    Harvey Ramer Member Posts: 2,239
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    It's complicated. Unless you have a good understanding of hydraulic dynamics, I doubt I can adequately explain it in a way you'll understand. Is the fact that I have had good success with pumping gravity systems sufficient?
  • maybemark
    maybemark Member Posts: 1,131
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    Kurt
    I don't have the 007 anymore, what do you think of the pump that Harvey is suggesting?
  • Harvey Ramer
    Harvey Ramer Member Posts: 2,239
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    With all that bleeding, as long as you don't have any sagging pipes, I doubt you have air. You just need to move more water.
  • Harvey Ramer
    Harvey Ramer Member Posts: 2,239
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    Mark, not trying to be mean here. I consider Kurt my friend and if you are trying to pit us or vet us against each other, I'll just be on my way.
  • maybemark
    maybemark Member Posts: 1,131
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    Harvey
    I'm not saying your wrong
    but why was the 007 working fine with the same amount of water for 35 years? this is a querstion for me to understand
  • maybemark
    maybemark Member Posts: 1,131
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    Harvey, I'm not trying to do that at all. I am just asking opinions.
    I am sorry that you took it that way
  • maybemark
    maybemark Member Posts: 1,131
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    I'm just asking opinions, not trying to break up friendships

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