Boiler losing water

Fred

@ChrisJ and @BobC , interesting, I use to just double click on the arrow and it would play. Now if I right click and select "Open Link", it takes me to youtube and it plays fine. I just did some MS security updates. Maybe that has something to do with it.

Abracadabra

Fred said:

BobC said:

Fred that plays fine for me, do you have flash enabled in your browser?

Bob

I do and everything else seems to play ok. Not sure what it might be but it has to be on my end???

@Fred make sure you have latest flash installed. I have an older version on one computer and it won't play. Newest flash plays ok.

Fred

Abracadabra said:

Fred said:

BobC said:

Fred that plays fine for me, do you have flash enabled in your browser?

Bob

I do and everything else seems to play ok. Not sure what it might be but it has to be on my end???

@Fred make sure you have latest flash installed. I have an older version on one computer and it won't play. Newest flash plays ok.

@Abracadabra , Thanks, I'll try to find an update.

BobC

Might try rebooting the computer and clearing out all the caches, that cures a lot of ills.

Bob

SWEI

Works here, and I have some really tight script blocking in place.

Fred

Thanks Guys. I have rebooted and cleared out my cache and all cookies. We'll see.

Fred

@General , Any updates for us yet?

General

Well....the heat exchanger has been ordered and will probably be in this week. I ordered the steam master tablets and they will be here Monday. I still need to order the 3# gauge. I am trying to find a slant fin galaxy ghxa piping guide online with no luck so far. We are baby sitting the present boiler (which is actually heating quite well) and has used 1 gallon of water in a week.

ChrisJ

@General

Remember,

Don't follow the directions on the Steamaster bottle. For some reason they tell you to use way too much.

Use 1 tablet to start, if it goes well try 2 and keep an eye on it. If it ends up with an unstable water line or something seems wrong drain water and add fresh water to get rid of the extra treatment.

Personally, I run two tablets but many have had issues with that much. It won't hurt anything, but it will waste energy by causing wet steam.

General

I've read a lot of your posts on the tablets @Chris so my thought was to start with 1/2 to 1....it is only a 4 gal boiler....thanks!

Fred

Go to this link. Page 7 has the piping diagram. This link has the entire Installation manual for the GHXA:
http://www.slantfin.com/images/stories/Technical-Literature/installmanual_galaxy_gxh_gxha_stm_41.pdf

General

@Fred.....THANKS! I asked Carl today if he read your post on piping and he said he read all the pages

ChrisJ

General said:

I've read a lot of your posts on the tablets @Chris so my thought was to start with 1/2 to 1....it is only a 4 gal boiler....thanks!

Really? Are you sure it's only 4 gallons?

If that's the case I'd guess 1 is plenty. Mine holds 10 gallons or so.

Fred

General said:

@Fred.....THANKS! I asked Carl today if he read your post on piping and he said he read all the pages

Your Welcome. BTW, I apologized for being so long winded, at the end of that post

General

He totally understood your post....me, not so much

nicholas bonham-carter

Ask Carl to put himself down here on the "find a contractor" page, and also to contribute some answers/observations. It is inexpensive advertising. I always advise people to look at postings by the listed contractors, so they can get a feeling for the man himself, by his words, and maybe his sense of humor!--NBC

General

@nicholas bonham-carter I did tell him and I hope he does. I also hope he still has a sense of humor when this install is complete....

Fred

General said:

I've read a lot of your posts on the tablets @Chris so my thought was to start with 1/2 to 1....it is only a 4 gal boiler....thanks!

I think the boiler has a larger capacity than 4 gallons. I believe the 4 gallons may be the throughput of the tankless coil (4 gallon per minute). You don't have a tankless water heater. The boiler is probably 10 to 12 gallons.

General

@Fred ....when Carl drained it to see what was wrong and filled it up it took 4 gal. Would there still have been 6-8 gal left in boiler?

Fred

General said:

@Fred ....when Carl drained it to see what was wrong and filled it up it took 4 gal. Would there still have been 6-8 gal left in boiler?

No, if it only took 4 gallons, there may have been a half gallon left in it but that seems like very little water for a steam boiler. You'll know when the new block is installed.

General

Right @Fred ...and BTW when I said that Carl read all the pages, I meant all the pages since I started posting about this...not just your comment

General

Well the boiler has arrived and Slant Fin does not even want the old one back.....anyone need a boat anchor?
Now we just need a few days with decent temps.

Fred

That is good News! One hurdle at a time. All that's left is getting it installed and cleaned! Keep us posted.

General

@Fred...what about a ph tester? What do you use?

Fred

@General I used to use a water conditioner but I stopped using anything a couple years ago. The boiler was 8 years old when I bought this house and the previous owner did not use anything and did little to no maintenence. I lived here about 10 years before I started using any water conditioner and a couple years ago I decided to stop using it. I did buy a bottle of Steam Master tablets but I haven't used any. I have never tested the PH of the water, ever. My boiler is now 32 years old.
I am very particular about the maintenence of my system but sometimes we can go overboard.
Given that your boiler died after only 7 or 8 years, i think it is a good idea to at least test the PH of the water. A Steam Master tablet isn't going to hurt anything as long as it doesn't accumulate over time.

General

Update..we were going to try for this week to replace boiler and piping but weather is not cooperating so will try for next week. In the meantime, I have attached the drawing my husband did of our pipe runs. He is a Land Surveyor so he set up the instrument and surveyed the pipe elevations.....

Fred

Keep us posted as it progresses. If there is a way for Carl to put a Vent in that loop at the East end of the Basement where it goes from being a supply pipe to becoming a return pipe, that would be ideal

ChrisJ

I used to use ph strips to test my water.

However, it appears the ph level from Steamaster is not the problem. As in, no matter how much you add it won't go too high. However, at least one of the chemicals in it causes foaming if there's too much. So testing ph won't let you know if you used too much or not.

Also, when using steamaster if the water color is blue it means the ph is too low (about 6 or lower) and if it's violet (8ish or higher) it means it's good. So there's really no need to test the ph, as long as you're using steamaster tablets. I figured out the color by doing some tests with vinegar and ammonia with the help of some guys on another forum. Unfortunately Rectorseal doesn't really say much but it's a really good product.

You can start with two pills if you want, but be ready to drain half of your water out and refill if it causes issues. I run two pills in mine but a lot of guys have found it's too much with their water. It won't harm anything, worst case it'll cause a lot of your water to leave the boiler which will trigger the LWCO until it comes back. Just keep an eye on it for a cycle or two.


So, with Steamaster the color of the water indicates the ph. Blue = danger, Purple = safe.
The amount of Steamaster doesn't change the color, but it does change the darkness, or how vivid the color is. Pale blue or violet is a weak dose and very vivid blue or violet is strong.

j a_2

Up here in my area we have very good water. Normally around 7.5. Wondering what is done in other areas that have poor water and the heating system steam/hotwater have a high make up....like those that have to drain /test the low water cutoff weekly... For some strange reason some people think they need to drain and flush on a constant basis. Thanks

ChrisJ

j a said:

Up here in my area we have very good water. Normally around 7.5. Wondering what is done in other areas that have poor water and the heating system steam/hotwater have a high make up....like those that have to drain /test the low water cutoff weekly... For some strange reason some people think they need to drain and flush on a constant basis. Thanks

If you have a float type LWCO you do need to drain it and test it once a week.

Otherwise, nothing should be drained or flushed that I am aware of except perhaps at the end of start of the season.

My tap water is a 7, but after being in the system it seems to drop over time to around 6. Perhaps an effect of carbonic acid? I don't know much about it, but I think this suggests the total alkalinity of my tap water is low.

Steamaster seems to keep my ph between 9 and 10 which is right where I like it.

Fred

I do Blow my LWCO down every week, about a half gallon and replace it. As I said earlier in this post, I have never checked the PH of my boiler which is a 32 year old Burnham but I did use a water conditioner for several years. i stopped using it about 3 years ago because I think they changed the formula and I started getting a lot of foaming. I bought a bottle of Steamaster tablets at that time but still have not used any of them. I have to assume our water is pretty good quality. I probably should do a PH test just out of curiosity.

ChrisJ

Fred said:

I do Blow my LWCO down every week, about a half gallon and replace it. As I said earlier in this post, I have never checked the PH of my boiler which is a 32 year old Burnham but I did use a water conditioner for several years. i stopped using it about 3 years ago because I think they changed the formula and I started getting a lot of foaming. I bought a bottle of Steamaster tablets at that time but still have not used any of them. I have to assume our water is pretty good quality. I probably should do a PH test just out of curiosity.

You know, Steamaster has a chemical in it to remove scale and mineral buildup. Even if for some reason you don't want to run it normally, adding 3-4 tablets or so and forcing it to heat for a while could clean the boiler out good and increase your efficiency.

Fred

ChrisJ said:

Fred said:

I do Blow my LWCO down every week, about a half gallon and replace it. As I said earlier in this post, I have never checked the PH of my boiler which is a 32 year old Burnham but I did use a water conditioner for several years. i stopped using it about 3 years ago because I think they changed the formula and I started getting a lot of foaming. I bought a bottle of Steamaster tablets at that time but still have not used any of them. I have to assume our water is pretty good quality. I probably should do a PH test just out of curiosity.

You know, Steamaster has a chemical in it to remove scale and mineral buildup. Even if for some reason you don't want to run it normally, adding 3-4 tablets or so and forcing it to heat for a while could clean the boiler out good and increase your efficiency.

I may do that this Fall before I fire it up for the season.

General

@Fred ....that is exactly what they thought about the vent. The pitch is only off in one spot which can be corrected when the near boiler piping is lowered. It came out quite differently when he first tested by using a level.

Fred

General said:

@Fred ....that is exactly what they thought about the vent. The pitch is only off in one spot which can be corrected when the near boiler piping is lowered. It came out quite differently when he first tested by using a level.

That's great. We'll want to see the final install!

Abracadabra

ChrisJ said:

Fred said:

I do Blow my LWCO down every week, about a half gallon and replace it. As I said earlier in this post, I have never checked the PH of my boiler which is a 32 year old Burnham but I did use a water conditioner for several years. i stopped using it about 3 years ago because I think they changed the formula and I started getting a lot of foaming. I bought a bottle of Steamaster tablets at that time but still have not used any of them. I have to assume our water is pretty good quality. I probably should do a PH test just out of curiosity.

You know, Steamaster has a chemical in it to remove scale and mineral buildup. Even if for some reason you don't want to run it normally, adding 3-4 tablets or so and forcing it to heat for a while could clean the boiler out good and increase your efficiency.

If your water is already 7.5-8pH, depending on the water capacity of your boiler, adding 3-4 tablets may be enough to cause your boiler to start foaming when steaming. Experienced this firsthand..

ChrisJ

Abracadabra said:

ChrisJ said:

Fred said:

I do Blow my LWCO down every week, about a half gallon and replace it. As I said earlier in this post, I have never checked the PH of my boiler which is a 32 year old Burnham but I did use a water conditioner for several years. i stopped using it about 3 years ago because I think they changed the formula and I started getting a lot of foaming. I bought a bottle of Steamaster tablets at that time but still have not used any of them. I have to assume our water is pretty good quality. I probably should do a PH test just out of curiosity.

You know, Steamaster has a chemical in it to remove scale and mineral buildup. Even if for some reason you don't want to run it normally, adding 3-4 tablets or so and forcing it to heat for a while could clean the boiler out good and increase your efficiency.

If your water is already 7.5-8pH, depending on the water capacity of your boiler, adding 3-4 tablets may be enough to cause your boiler to start foaming when steaming. Experienced this firsthand..

The foaming isn't from ph, it's from the chemical in the tablets. 3-4 tablets will make any home sized boiler foam.

These have a PH of around 10 so no matter how many you add, it won't ever go over that. It's actually hard to say because I can't tell the difference between 9 and 10 on any of my ph test strips.

So it's either 9 or 10, but not high enough to cause issues. Even if you added the entire bottle, it wouldn't go over that.

I forget which chemical in it causes foaming, but I know one of them does.

Fred

My boiler has a 25 gallon tank. I think this fall I might put about 4 tablets in it and let it run just a few cycles before I drain and refill the boiler, just to de-scale it. The water seems to run so much calmer with no additives in it at all.

Abracadabra

ChrisJ said:

The foaming isn't from ph, it's from the chemical in the tablets. 3-4 tablets will make any home sized boiler foam.

These have a PH of around 10 so no matter how many you add, it won't ever go over that. It's actually hard to say because I can't tell the difference between 9 and 10 on any of my ph test strips.

So it's either 9 or 10, but not high enough to cause issues. Even if you added the entire bottle, it wouldn't go over that.

I forget which chemical in it causes foaming, but I know one of them does.

Interesting... I was always taught that a high pH in and of itself would cause foaming in a boiler, having to do something with the carbonic acid formed reacting with the high pH and foaming.. Kind of like mixing vinegar with baking soda. The chemical reaction between the two. Also, I have to think that if you keep adding tablets you'd be able to get the pH over 10, it just may be diminishing returns though as it would get harder and harder to reach 14.

ChrisJ

Abracadabra said:

ChrisJ said:

The foaming isn't from ph, it's from the chemical in the tablets. 3-4 tablets will make any home sized boiler foam.

These have a PH of around 10 so no matter how many you add, it won't ever go over that. It's actually hard to say because I can't tell the difference between 9 and 10 on any of my ph test strips.

So it's either 9 or 10, but not high enough to cause issues. Even if you added the entire bottle, it wouldn't go over that.

I forget which chemical in it causes foaming, but I know one of them does.

Interesting... I was always taught that a high pH in and of itself would cause foaming in a boiler, having to do something with the carbonic acid formed reacting with the high pH and foaming.. Kind of like mixing vinegar with baking soda. The chemical reaction between the two. Also, I have to think that if you keep adding tablets you'd be able to get the pH over 10, it just may be diminishing returns though as it would get harder and harder to reach 14.

Very high ph may cause foaming, I don't know.
But with Steamaster, the foaming isn't from high ph it's from one of the chemicals.

I don't think you can get the ph over 10 as the ph of the tablet it self isn't much higher I don't think.

Just like adding a ton of baking soda to a little bit of water, it's ph will only go so high because it won't exceed the ph of the chemical it self. I think baking soda is around 8 so no matter how much you add, it'll never go above that.