Boiler losing water

ChrisJ

That sounds like the typical damage caused by excessive makeup water and poor water quality to me.

neilc

ok, so now my disclaimer,
I am not a contractor, nor engineer, but I read here lots,
the pro's here have written about not pluging that port cause it changes circulations in the boiler,
seems maybe somebody done you wrong,
I'll bet other chime in.

ChrisJ

Not plugging what port @neilc

neilc

pluging = plugging,
dammit , , , where's the edit button

General

Some others here thought that maybe Slant Fin did it in order to be able to make a 5 section boiler if they chose and they could add another burner.

ChrisJ

Ah that.

Not sure, but I've been told to avoid removing burners.
However, I highly, highly doubt it would rott the block just above the water line.

General

Chris...there is an 8th place but only 7 burners. The 8th place has a plug. Guy that is working on boiler was wondering if anyone had an idea why it would be plugged and not have a burner.

neilc

ChrisJ said:

Not plugging what port @neilc

OP has a burner tube plu g g ed on his manifold,
I saw it several threads up.

Fred

General said:

@neilc ....yes just above it.
@Fred ...make that three holes. One hole big enough to put a finger through, one pinhole size, and one in between. They are all above the water line about 2 inches from the top.

There are probably more ready to break through. When there is one bad spot on a boiler block, others aren't far behind.

ProblemSolver

Hello, General. You told me you had no problems, just was hopping for a steam pro to do annual service. Look I'd like to help, and educate you on your system. The drive is not the longest I've gone to help someone. let me know what you think.

General

@ProblemSolver ...I didn't know we had a problem....famous last words. We did find someone who answered all of the questions right and is going to work with us to make this system right. I appreciate your offer and should something change I will def touch base with you.

ProblemSolver

Cool, get that person to join this Site.

vaporvac

@general, you might want to post some pics of their installs here for feedback. It's really the best way to judge. You only have one time to do it right. And please DO encourage them to join the site and place an ad. Picking are slim up your way.

General

I spoke with Slat Fi today and they will replace entire cast iron heat exchanger under warranty. Contractor will get process started today and hopefully we can get a few warm days in a row to get it done. I will post pic of how he intends to pipe.

Fred

That is Fantastic!!!

General

It is great news....I will be happy when the bird is in hand

ChrisJ

It is great news.
However, once the new block is installed and clean I highly urge you to use water treatment to stop this from happening again.

Either Rectorseal Steamaster tablets or Rhomar 903.

General

@Chris Absolutely!

Steamhead

General said:

I spoke with Slat Fi today and they will replace entire cast iron heat exchanger under warranty. Contractor will get process started today and hopefully we can get a few warm days in a row to get it done. I will post pic of how he intends to pipe.

Slant/Fin is a stand-up company, which is why we use their boilers as often as we do.

But you still need to look for leaks on that system. Bad vents, loose valve packings, underground returns can all leak.

Not sure if you've already done so, but make sure your steam mains are well vented. And if you get a new water feeder, it must have a counter.

ChrisJ

@Steamhead

Does Slant/Fin's special skimmer actually make a difference?
I've always wondered about that. I almost went with them over WM and maybe I should have.

Steamhead

Not really sure it makes the job easier. We don't do many Galaxy boilers, with us it's usually the Intrepid with EZ-Gas. But the way they handled this issue- as opposed to a certain other company being discussed on this board- is a BIG reason to go with Slant/Fin.

vaporvac

When i was deciding between "the two" for my install, SF was the winner, by far regarding their customer service and tech support, so I'm not too surprised at this outcome. Happy? Yes... and relieved, also. They were SO helpful with every single design issue even during Sandy. They helped me plan for a condensate tank contingency that would work with my vacuum system making me feel like I was their biggest or only customer. AND, I'm just a HO! I do wish the Intrepids had that skimming thing; I'm so curious how it works. Update: I guess these days I should write out "home owner".

General

@Steamhead It was the new water feeder with the counter in December that started the whole process of trying to find the leak or we would not have known we had a problem...
After that, we added 4 gorton's on 2 antlers on the mains, checked all valves & packings and there are no underground runs. We were in the process of replacing all the vents with MOM's and were about half way through when it was suggested that we overfill the boiler to check for a leak there....the rest is history.....

General

Moving forward on this boiler install...what are your recommendations on vent dampers? We have never had one and reading previous comments seem to suggest that they are more trouble than the money saved. Thoughts????

ChrisJ

Personally, I like them.
I feel they keep an awful lot of heat from being sucked up the chimney when the boiler is off.

General

That is what contractor is saying but leaving it up to us obviously. I also emailed him Dan's video for steam piping and wondering if Slant Fin would require different piping or if steam boilers could all be piped as per his video.

ChrisJ

Pretty sure they can all be piped like Dan's video.

Fred

Vent dampers are a good thing. They save some energy/money and are pretty darn reliable. I'd install one.
The owner's manual will lay out the minimum installation requirements for the boiler to operate properly and be relatively effecient. If your installer can put in a Drop header, that will be better yet and keep the steam nice and dry. Make sure he uses both Riser tappings (if there are 2 on the new boiler block) and that he uses the full pipe size for those risers (no bushings in the boiler tapping. Also, if he can increase the Header pipe by one size, that is a very good thing as well. Make sure when he takes the Equalizer pipe down to the lower boiler tapping that he does not reduce that pipe until after he turns down from the header. You don't want to reduce before thee turn or the header will hold water.
Weather you use a regular header or a drop header Follow the diagram as far as pipe sequence. Riser(s) from boiler, piped to one end of the Header, side by side, Risers to the Mains next on the Header, Side by side (and each Main piped down to the Header individually (not tied together some where with a TEE) and then the equalizer piped at the end of the header, after the Main Risers.
If you use a standard Header, make sure the header is at least 24 inches above the water line, (even higher is better). If using a Drop Header, go up with the boiler risers as high as you can (at least 24 inches) and then you can drop back down as close to the top of the boiler as you'd like.
Make sure the header has a little pitch (1/4 to 1/2 inch) towards the equalizer end of the header.
Make sure the Hartford loop is there and tied into the Equalizer and that it ties in about 2" below the Normal water line of the boiler.
Make sure he installs a Skim Port and be prepared to do several skims to get all the oils off of the surface of the boiler water so that the water level will be stable. Don't panic when the water appears to be going crazy and looks like it is leaving the boiler. That is normal until the oils are all cleaned out.
As we've said, post pictures along the way and we'll provide any advice he may need. Sorry for the long post.

vaporvac

Everything @fred said (that should all be a sticky) and remember to use a short nipple on the Hartford loop and MAINTAIN the same water line or at least be sure the wet returns stay WET. I you can swing it, install a King valve for isolation during a blow-down, and please, install some way to clean out your wet return regularly.

SlantFin's install instructions are very detailed. Dan's video gives the general layout which is the same for all, but the details are in the instruction manual. Don't hesitate to call SF's technical dept to see that you have the most up-to-date instructions. Don't necessarily rely on what comes with the boiler. I realize you have a different model and type to mine, but I found their minimum requirements to be over and above the norm. They REQUIRED a drop header on mine and certain minimum spacing between the last drop and riser to the header and take-off to the equalizer. Do a drop header if at all possible and use both tappings if applicable.

General

Oh my gosh...the only thing that I understood was Fred's comment..... "Don't panic when the water appears to be going crazy and looks like it is leaving the boiler. That is normal until the oils are all cleaned out."
I have to get Carl to look at this site.....

Fred

LOL, Sorry, maybe too much information? Carl will understand. Hopefully he will explain it to you so you'll know for future reference.

vaporvac

That's funny @General. I sometimes forget that I've actually learned something on this site. Fred & I are both HOs who work on their own system and have turned a pipe or two as result of info given here. Between our two comments, it's basically a primer on correctly installing a new boiler. I presume you've already ensured the old one was sized right? Skimming, however, is something you can do and save some $ as it takes time and needs doing more than once. Hopefully, Carl can get you started on that or at least help. I was so scared to open my ball valve, but now it's old hat. Colleen

ChrisJ

Skimming is a very complicated process.

Ok, It's actually really simple,

First, you crank the thermostat way up. Then, you go down to the basement and turn the switch off on the boiler. Next, you open the skim port (remove plug, open valve, whatever). Then, place a bucket under the port and slowly add water until it starts trickling into the bucket. Go nice and slow.

Every now and then flip the switch on the boiler and let the burner heat the water until it's good and hot but shut it back off before it starts producing steam, you do NOT want it boiling. Boiling will cause the water and oils to get mixed and we don't want that. After skimming several buckets of burning hot water drain the boiler to it's normal level and fire it up. What I like to do now, is close the bottom valve on the gauge glass and open the drain. This will steam clean the gauge glass and get all of the sludge and oils out of it. Don't worry, they will come back over time until you finally get the boiler really clean.


Here's a video of when I skimmed.

https://youtu.be/EkoY9xrdpcY



I did this 6 times several full buckets each over a period of several months. Then I gave up and build a wand so I could really wash the boiler out.

See the dark stuff in the top of the gauge glass in that video? That's oil / sludge.


Oh and, have your guy add a 1/4" ball valve and some fittings to the bottom of the gauge glass in place of the junk valve that comes with it. It will make your life A LOT easier, for the life of the boiler.

ChrisJ

This is the valve I added to my gauge glass. I learned this from @Steamhead I keep a 1/4" plug in it just hand tight so if someone bumps the valve it won't do anything. I also keep brass caps on all of my drains for the same reason.

Fred

@ChrisJ the last two videos you posted don't play (at least for me). Others do.

vaporvac

Thanks @ChrisJ . Something else for me to do! I like it.

ChrisJ

Fred said:

@ChrisJ the last two videos you posted don't play (at least for me). Others do.

This doesn't play for you?

https://youtu.be/EkoY9xrdpcY

Fred

@ChrisJ , Nope, won't play.

BobC

Fred that plays fine for me, do you have flash enabled in your browser?

Bob

Fred

BobC said:

Fred that plays fine for me, do you have flash enabled in your browser?

Bob

I do and everything else seems to play ok. Not sure what it might be but it has to be on my end???