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Commercial Boiler replacement

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  • EBEBRATT-Ed
    EBEBRATT-Ed Posts: 20,938

    @mattmia2

    IDK. I know MA writes its own plumbing code (or used to) then they would adopt NFPA 54 for nat gas and 58 for propane and print all that stuff together and sell it.

    I guess they got caught printing it so now when you buy the code you just get the mass rules and regs and plumbing code and you have to go by NFPA 54 7 58 yourself.

  • EBEBRATT-Ed
    EBEBRATT-Ed Posts: 20,938

    @gpjazz

    I would say no as long as each boiler does not exceed 250,000 btu. But that is just my opinion. Since it is a commercial job the inspectors may want it.

    The states adopt the CSD-1 but some states modify it so you will have to check.

  • gpjazz
    gpjazz Posts: 89

    Another thing I was thinking about for this job is breaking the old 2-1/2" piping and fittings.

    Has anyone ever used an induction heater to remove fittings on an old boiler system ?

  • gerardlem
    gerardlem Posts: 5

    If you install high efficiency boilers seriously consider installing a dirt mag. There is probably rust and mud in the system piping. NOT good for new style boilers. May even want to flush out system and add inhibiter.

  • gpjazz
    gpjazz Posts: 89

    They will not be high efficient boilers. They will be cast iron.

    Any recommendations on breaking loose the existing 2-1/2" pipe fittings?

  • jesmed1
    jesmed1 Posts: 1,563
    edited August 21

    Lots of good advice on fitting removal from HH pros in the thread below. Watch @Gordo 's video cutting a slot into the fitting and wedging the slot open to relieve pressure on the threads, then unscrewing.

    https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/194269/unscrewing-pipes
  • gpjazz
    gpjazz Posts: 89

    I will finally be getting started with this job next week.. So I called the inspector to ask a couple questions about the boiler room and he mentioned something I wasn't prepared for…

    He told me that the emergency stop switches (at each boiler room entry door) should also shut off the gas supply to the domestic hot water tank. Now I'm not sure, but I don't think this is in my scope of work since I'm there to do the boiler replacement… The current / existing domestic hot water is a stand alone 80 gallon gas water tank with natural draft.

    So how am I supposed to kill the gas supply to water heater with the emergency stop switches? Is there a 120volt solenoid available to install "in-line" on the gas supply? It would have to be "hot" all the time and then break the circuit with the e-stop switches. This just seems like another future problem to me..

    Any advice on this ?? And technically , is this really my responsibility ?

  • SteamNow
    SteamNow Posts: 78

    @gpjazz Yes, normally those would still apply. At least in Illinois my inspector would mark the entire system as "one boiler".

    Owner

    Steamnowrockford.com

  • gpjazz
    gpjazz Posts: 89

    Any advice on the gas supply to domestic water heater ??

  • EBEBRATT-Ed
    EBEBRATT-Ed Posts: 20,938

    @gpjazz I suppose if the inspector insists you would have to put a solenoid valve in the water heater supply pipe. I guess it would have to be a NC valve and the power is shut off with the emergency switch. The other option (which he may not like) is a NO valve that would be closed in an emergency that would prevent having a valve energized 24/7.

  • JohnNY
    JohnNY Posts: 3,412
    edited September 6

    We (Gateway Plumbing and Heating in NYC) have in the past 9 months installed two single-family-home boilers with mid-level boiler room renovations for well into 6-figures each.

    This week I'm compiling a proposal for two 800,000 BTU commercial water heaters in a high volume kitchen operating 24-hours that will come in around a quarter million dollars.

    If you're not used to commercial installations, and the equipment and codes involved, then the numbers may scare you into thinking you're not pricing the job correctly. Be careful (it sounds like you are). You should make some money on a job like this if you do it smartly. Or you could lose your shirt on endless return trips.

    Contact John "JohnNY" Cataneo, NYC Master Plumber, Lic 1784
    Consulting & Troubleshooting
    Heating in NYC or NJ.
    Classes
    ScottSecor
  • gpjazz
    gpjazz Posts: 89

    Please forgive my ignorance, but this is my very 1st commercial boiler job and I'm getting confused on some things per the inspector..

    To clarify again, I am installing (3) Weil McLain cast iron boilers that will be piped into a single main loop to the building. Each boiler has it's own factory installed LWCO and high limits. The inspector told me that I need to add an additional manual reset LWCO and also an additional manual reset high temperature limit control.

    Now my confusion on this is where do I need to install these manual reset controls ???

    Can I install one additional manual reset control on the main piping loop in boiler room at ceiling level? Or do I need to install the manual controls on EACH individual boiler?

    Yes, I will be installing ball valves on each boiler supply/return to isolate for servicing if needed. (But I will be removing the handles of each ball valve) So does this make any difference in this situation?

    Also, I'm confused on the combustion air requirements? Is it based off of the total btu's in the room, or the free air opening of the flue piping? The boiler room has a total of 2,152 cubic feet of space. What is the requirement of combustion air per btu's ?

  • gpjazz
    gpjazz Posts: 89

    Let me add that my plan is to use 120 volt manual reset controls wired in thru the main 120v feed line.

    So therefore any fault of low water or high limit will kill all 3 boilers 120 volt circuits at once

  • EBEBRATT-Ed
    EBEBRATT-Ed Posts: 20,938

    Depends on the size of the boiler and the state code. In MA. if the boilers are over 250K input each we have to have and LWCO and a manual reset LWCO on each boiler for steam and an operating pressure control and a man reset pressure control on steam. for each boiler.

    Hot water would require a 1 man reset LWCO on each boiler and a man reset aqua stat on each boiler along with an operating aqua stat (non manual reset) on each boiler

    Thease are not arbitary. You need to find the state code in your area and read what they want. it exists somewhere.

    Contact: Call 717-214-4319

    PA Dept of Labor and Industry

    Boiler Division

    651 Boas Street, Room 1606

    Harrisburg, PA 17121

  • gpjazz
    gpjazz Posts: 89

    Another dumb question in regards to the inspection process once I install these boilers…

    Will I need to have the entire system 100% complete and FILLED with water and ready to run before the inspector comes to inspect ?

    My concern is that if the inspector says that something different needs done in the main water piping to building, I don't want to have to drain the entire building again and re-fill.. It's a LOT of water…

    So would the inspector possibly come to inspect the install and check that all controls / safety devices are in place before I fill the system with water? Obviously with an empty system, the manual reset LWCO and high limit could not be "tested".

  • yellowdog
    yellowdog Posts: 295

    These are all questions you should be asking the inspector directly.

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