Is there any way to add a float valve to a Big Mouth vent?

Jells · July 22

A few years ago a contractor replaced my Gorton 2 main with a Big Mouth. Naturally, some time after that was an incident where the system flooded and water came pouring out of that valve! (More contractors)

Since the valve has a threaded 3/4-in exhaust port, I was wondering if there was some sort of float valve that could be mounted onto it? If not I might go back to the Gorton.

pecmsg · July 22

find out how water got that high?

Jells · July 22

https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1900662#Comment_1900662

The last time It was Moe, Larry and Curly changing the flue liner and accidentally flipped open the fill valve. I have since removed that handle. Another time it was a confused tenant trying to be helpful.

I consider the float valves like seat belts, a safety measure that you hope you never need but wouldn't like to do without.

pecmsg · July 22

how is that a safety measure?

Filling the system with water is the problem.
if a breaker trips you don’t install a larger breaker you find out why.
apparently you know the cause so correct that.

mattmia2 · July 22

unless it is a 2 pipe system(in which case you could vent it in to a dry return), if you put floats on the vents in the basement and someone floods the system, it will just come out a radiator vent or valve packing somewhere up higher which will be worse.

Jells · July 22

https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1900664#Comment_1900664

The float valve IS the breaker in this analogy! You're advocating doing without breakers and just don't overload or short circuit.

Jamie Hall · July 22

One reason I prefer the big Gortons over the Big Mouth…

ChrisJ · July 22

@ethicalpaul said the floats don't actually float.

If that's the case...

pecmsg · July 22

https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1900674#Comment_1900674

no I’m not

Fix the problem!

ethicalpaul · July 22

Yeah the “float” in the #1 definitely sinks like a stone. I haven’t opened a #2 to test it but if someone sends me a broke one I will.

Gorton almost never calls it a float (but I think I caught them saying at one place deep in their web site).

Jells · July 22

https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1900684#Comment_1900684

Isn't that the discussion where I posted a video showing the float in a Jacobus working just fine? I have the pulled Gorton 2 sitting right in front of me, maybe I'll do a video of that too.

Jells · July 22

https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1900683#Comment_1900683

Last I heard, you can't fix 'stupid'! Every time it has flooded has been a human error. I don't live at this property to stand guard over the boiler every moment.

ethicalpaul · July 22

maybe, my memory is garbage. I might have to amend to say “they can work but they don’t float” 😅

pecmsg · July 22

https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1900691#Comment_1900691

so if someone **** off the emergency switch you’ll bypass it?

EBEBRATT-Ed · July 22

@Jells

Don't know if this will work for you but you could run some PVC like 1 1/4" to a drain from the trap location. Then pipe 3/4" into the pvc but leave an air gap.

Jells · July 23

https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1900696#Comment_1900696

Thanks, I was thinking of something like that. But would be real SOB getting that pipe to a drain.

Danny Scully · July 23

https://youtube.com/shorts/SrZ8AE_LinU?is=HwqWEkX-X5ev0IrJ

Do this 👆

Jells · July 23

https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1900703#Comment_1900703

Huh. Seems pretty interesting! I'm trying to wrap my head around using the low water cutoff to de-energize the zone valve. It does make sense. But then, so does two Gorton 2's, and a lot less complicated.

Danny Scully · July 23

Sounds like you answered your own question 🤣🤪

109A_5 · July 23

My bet is the 'Float' in a Gorton 2 will NOT close the valve, not enough trapped air for the weight involved.

ethicalpaul · 2:47PM

https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1900710#Comment_1900710

I won't bet on this after seeing the video mentioned above (that I had forgotten about). But my question is, would you rather have the water falling on your basement floor, or would you rather the main vent closed and the water continued filling up the whole system and shooting out of (probably multiple) radiator vents?

I guess the radiator vents spewing water would be easier to notice, provided someone was home at the time but for me, I'd rather my basement floor got wet.

Jells · 2:56PM

https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1900784#Comment_1900784

Well, the main is behind the wall of a basement apartment, so it's not without consequence.

Jamie Hall · 3:36PM

I'm not at all sure there is a good answer to this one. I do know that a Gorton #2 will shut off on high water — or at least the one on the system Cedric powers will — as it has done so, once when the autofeeder went loopy and overfilled the system.

That, however, does not really answer the fundamental problem, which is how does one protect a system from overfilling. Keeping the autofeeder, if you have one, in good shape and operating properly is more or less obvious — but so long as there is the possibility of a manual feed, someone, sometime, is going to overfill the system — as in the OP's case. You can keep it from running in an overfill condition — the pressure controls should do that. But preventing the condition? Hmm…

Steamhead · 3:41PM

Maybe a redundant water feeder?

I'd still go with the Gorton.

ethicalpaul · 4:27PM

https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1900785#Comment_1900785

Well there’s your problem! 😉

Jells · 7:20PM

https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1900794#Comment_1900794

Well, there's the setup @Danny Scully linked. About $400 in gear, and I can't see where they placed the sensor. In a tee off the return somewhere presumably.

Jamie Hall · 8:32PM

Unless the widget can positively shut off the errant automatic feeder, or close a valve that got left open somehow… is it going to do what's needed?

Better have it arranged to activate a LOUD alarm.

mattmia2 · 9:21PM

you could pipe the vent outlet to someplace more convenient. vinyl tubing would probably be ok, just make sur it is sloped so it doesn't trap any water that does burp out of it

Jells · 9:38PM

https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1900815#Comment_1900815

Unfortunately from the vent location it would have to go UP into the joist bay to traverse to where a drain is available, potentially creating a trap. It's not an easy path, I can barely get NM cables through, but maybe 1" vinyl would actually do. Or even just a chunk of 5/8 garden hose! That would make the fittings convenient.

mattmia2 · 9:47PM

you could go up if you dripped it to a wet return but that is starting to get complicated. you could move the vent itself but the pipe to the vent would have to be able to drain back to the main.

Is there any way to add a float valve to a Big Mouth vent?

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