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How much time left on this ticking time bomb

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parity_check21
parity_check21 Member Posts: 36
edited June 4 in Strictly Steam

16 year old Weil-Mclain EGH-95. 400k BTU, likely oversized for my 650 EDR single pipe home.

I've documented various repairs I made to corroded pipes that have gotten me thorough some bonus winters, but the constant makeup water refills are getting worst, 1-2 gallons per day escaping as steam through the vent. When filled above water line the water trickles out, which confirms the leak.

I am highly skilled at home renovation and plumbing/electrical, but one thing I cannot physically do is install a new boiler entirely my self. Was hoping to get a few more years out of this while I save for the inevitable. I've seen pictures of boilers that look much worse than mine, but it seems irresponsible to rely on this unit for another season with what I know.

Previous homeowners installed the unit but did zero maintenance. Also it is direct venting which probably should be going through my historic chimney if physics allow for it.

First contractor had no regard to my sizing concern. Second contractor refused to price out a proposal until I had my chimney checked for ventilation capability.

What I am looking for is:

  1. Realistically how much life is left (I know the answer but am in denial stage)
  2. Direct vent debacle: Is this a must to get rid of? my current system is not designed for a power blower but they used it anyway.
  3. Cant can be done to prevent further corrosion. I have a water softener, if I bypass my municipal water is very hard. Seems bad either way.

Thanks!

IMG_4580.png IMG_4581.png
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Comments

  • Jamie Hall
    Jamie Hall Member Posts: 27,583

    Well… on further life, anything you can get out of it is a bonus. It's done. Sorry about that…

    I'm not quite sure how anyone is getting reliable combustion with a blower, but I suppose it can be done setting various dampers correctly. It would be better with natural draught, but…

    We never quote price on The Wall. There are various reasons for that — all good. Sorry about that, too!

    Now on the corrosion, since you won't want that to happen on the replacement boiler. Two things. First, check all over the entire system for anywhere that you are losing steam or water. A new boiler shouldn't use more than a gallon or two a month — if that. Makeup water is always a problem. HOWEVER. You mention a water softener. I do hope that you aren't using softened water. That really is lethal for a boiler. The municipal water may be hard — but if you keep the makeup water down, blowing the boiler down once a year or so will control the scale. You can further help with keeping the pH in the slightly basic range — that helps. But softened water? No. No Way.

    Br. Jamie, osb
    Building superintendent/caretaker, 7200 sq. ft. historic house museum with dependencies in New England
    HeatingHelp.com
  • mattmia2
    mattmia2 Member Posts: 17,478

    please edit to remove prices, we can't talk about prices of services.

    that boiler is about twice the size that you need.

    there are add on power venters that can be added to atmospheric boilers. that might not be a bad option if the chimney needs more than just a liner.

    if the leak is between sections rather than within a section you could potentially disassemble it and reseal it. people have had some success screwing and epoxying a plate over some leaks depending on where they are.

    the added makeup water will corrode other parts of the system so if you keep running it with a lot of water loss you may be spending more money on repairing rotted out returns and mains too.

    it is possible you could hire movers or millwrights or something like that to move the old boiler out and the new boiler in and pipe it yourself but your vent situation sounds like you need to find someone that really knows what they are doing to deal with the vent and setting up combustion.

    HeatingHelp.com
  • mattmia2
    mattmia2 Member Posts: 17,478

    looking at your old post there is significant repiping to do to properly connect a new boiler. the header on that boiler is wrong and it connects in to the header from the previous boiler. that all needs to be cut out and the mains individually connected to a new header between the risers from the boiler and the equalizer.

    Lyle {pheloa} Carter
  • mattmia2
    mattmia2 Member Posts: 17,478

    there are boiler fill filter cartridges that you can put in the feed to the boiler that do some demineralization. use the unsoftened water and the cartridge.

  • Steamhead
    Steamhead Member Posts: 18,714

    @parity_check21 , you need to remove pricing information from your post.

    Now.

    All Steamed Up, Inc.

    Baltimore, MD, USA
    Steam, Vapor & Hot-Water Heating Specialists
    Oil & Gas Burner Service
    Consulting

    HeatingHelp.com
  • EBEBRATT-Ed
    EBEBRATT-Ed Member Posts: 20,485

    @parity_check21

    If your EDR is really 650 your about 150,000 btu/hr oversized.

    If you have any leaks in the system now is the time to tighten things up before a new boiler gets installed. Also go through the venting and replace any vents and check the vent sizing.

    Then you have to find the right contractor who will correctly install a new boiler.

    Posting your location may help

  • parity_check21
    parity_check21 Member Posts: 36

    Montgomery County, PA.

    I'm going to get an exact EDR tonight, that was an estimate, but I doubt I'm off by more than 10%.

    Have a chimney contractor coming soon but I am not sure I have a full 8' of continuous diameter, might be closer to 7'. The picture was taken from the roof looking down. The round section is 11" wide then it narrows to a square possibly clay lined section that may or may not span the entire length.

    IMG_4578.png


    I removed the pricing question. Sorry about that, I know pricing can be a sensitive topic.

  • parity_check21
    parity_check21 Member Posts: 36
    edited June 4

    I measured each radiator and calculated the EDR more accurately -665.

    I also was able to measure the chimney flue diameter to be 7-1/4", which means a 6" liner is the most I would be able to install.

    It looks like only option would be to continue venting to outside. If my output was a little less 6" vent might have been possible. That said, I still cannot figure out why the last people went with a 400k unit. It barely fits on the pre-existing slab, the previous system might have actually been right-sized.

  • mattmia2
    mattmia2 Member Posts: 17,478

    are you in @RayWohlfarth 's area?(i posted this this morning but it doesn't seem to be there)

  • parity_check21
    parity_check21 Member Posts: 36

    I'm on the Philly side of PA, not anywhere near Pittsburgh, if thats were he operates out of.

  • mattmia2
    mattmia2 Member Posts: 17,478
    edited June 4

    never hurts to ask or maybe he knows someone

    There are also many NY and NJ companies, maybe some of them also have PA licenses.

  • Steamhead
    Steamhead Member Posts: 18,714

    Can you be a bit more specific, say, Berks County or Lancaster County?

    All Steamed Up, Inc.

    Baltimore, MD, USA
    Steam, Vapor & Hot-Water Heating Specialists
    Oil & Gas Burner Service
    Consulting

  • parity_check21
    parity_check21 Member Posts: 36

    Montgomery County

  • Steamhead
    Steamhead Member Posts: 18,714

    All Steamed Up, Inc.

    Baltimore, MD, USA
    Steam, Vapor & Hot-Water Heating Specialists
    Oil & Gas Burner Service
    Consulting

  • RayWohlfarth
    RayWohlfarth Member Posts: 2,035

    Wow that boiler seems to be in rough shape.When you do get a new one, I would try finding the leak or the new one will suffer the same fate. I don't know and companies on that end of the state. Good luck

    Ray Wohlfarth
    Boiler Lessons
  • parity_check21
    parity_check21 Member Posts: 36

    The leak is in the actual Boilier above the water line, I'm hoping once it is replaced the water loss will be minimal.

  • parity_check21
    parity_check21 Member Posts: 36

    Really having a hard time finding people who know Steam. If anyone knows of a semi-retired professional looking for some steam work in the Philly metro area please let me know, I am willing to assist in the labor. I have a flexible timeline.

    Thank you.

    CLamb
  • mattmia2
    mattmia2 Member Posts: 17,478

    I think Pompetti in the "find a contractor" is someone that spends a lot of time here.

  • Steamhead
    Steamhead Member Posts: 18,714

    He means to check the system for leaks. If steam or water is lost from the system, fresh water must be added so the

    All Steamed Up, Inc.

    Baltimore, MD, USA
    Steam, Vapor & Hot-Water Heating Specialists
    Oil & Gas Burner Service
    Consulting

    mattmia2
  • EBEBRATT-Ed
    EBEBRATT-Ed Member Posts: 20,485

    Leaking the rotted boiler could be a symptom rather than the actual leak. When a boiler takes on too much MU water it rots. Could be leaks elsewhere. If they are steam leaks you may not see them.

    mattmia2
  • patrykrebisz
    patrykrebisz Member Posts: 137
    edited June 6

    In cold weather, 1 stuck open vent on one of your radiators will release around 1 gallon of water (via steam) per day! It s shocking how quickly water can escape the system thus causing more intake water, leading to premature rust.

    »»» See my steam heat YouTube videos:
    https://www.youtube.com/@HeatingBlog

  • patrykrebisz
    patrykrebisz Member Posts: 137

    Did you identify where the leak is? If it s on flat parts of the boiler you could possibly dril&tap some holes and install metal plates (with some high temp silicon gasket).

    »»» See my steam heat YouTube videos:
    https://www.youtube.com/@HeatingBlog

  • parity_check21
    parity_check21 Member Posts: 36

    Something going on here in one of the air vents in the basement loop. I've caught it releasing steam when the system runs for a prolonged time. it's usually only when my wife overrides my presets and drives the temperature up 4-5 degrees at once. Not sure if the vent is bad or if it's indicative of a larger problem.

    3D0C4081-7BAD-494A-9359-A73C0E7DA0B9_1_105_c.jpeg
  • neilc
    neilc Member Posts: 3,196

    that vent may be shot, or wrong, somewhere on that body is the model #, what is it?

    then the boiler, what pressure are you running at? how clean is the pigtail? and what's the sight glass look like? post a picture showing each, then 1 or 2 more distant shots of the boiler, floor to ceiling, so we see all the pipes also, get 2 different angles,

    known to beat dead horses
  • neilc
    neilc Member Posts: 3,196

    show us a radiator also, so we see both ends, 1 pipe or 2?

    if nothing else we'll see something to avoid on the replacement boiler,

    known to beat dead horses
  • mattmia2
    mattmia2 Member Posts: 17,478

    with the creative piping of the boiler it could be burping a slug of water out of the boiler and out that vent or it could be bad or it could be bad from the slug of water. if the main vents look like that I would replace them with properly sized vents with the new boiler to protect the new boiler.

  • EBEBRATT-Ed
    EBEBRATT-Ed Member Posts: 20,485

    That looks like a Hoffman vent.

    Looks rusty like it has been leaking a while but maybe it is just the picture.

  • Steamhead
    Steamhead Member Posts: 18,714

    Hoffman #75 most likely, and yes, it's shot. @parity_check21 , that's at least part of your problem. Measure your steam mains' length and diameter, and we can tell you what to replace it with.

    All Steamed Up, Inc.

    Baltimore, MD, USA
    Steam, Vapor & Hot-Water Heating Specialists
    Oil & Gas Burner Service
    Consulting

  • parity_check21
    parity_check21 Member Posts: 36

    Will provide more details about the piping/steam vent setup in a few days, appreciate all the help here.

    It was determined that my chimney is not sufficient to atmospherically vent any moderately sized boiler. It also looks like manufactures do not make boilers designed for a powered vent setup once you get above like 120k btu. Any suggestions for my 660 EDR system?

  • mattmia2
    mattmia2 Member Posts: 17,478

    peerless 63-x-06 and a field controls or Tjernlund power venter of the appropriate size.

  • parity_check21
    parity_check21 Member Posts: 36

    What specifically allows the 63-x to be sidewall vented? Their product literature states that it is natural draft.

  • EBEBRATT-Ed
    EBEBRATT-Ed Member Posts: 20,485

    @parity_check21

    How tall is the existing chimney and what is the max size liner that can be installed in it? Those two factors determine the btus you can fire.

  • parity_check21
    parity_check21 Member Posts: 36

    The height is fine, 30'. Problem is the diameter is 7-1/4". We didn't scope but Chimney guy said it would be difficult to get a 6" liner through due to potential flue turns and mortar protrusion. The manuals seem to want 7" chimney vent anyway.

  • mattmia2
    mattmia2 Member Posts: 17,478

    power venters are designed to side wall vent natural draft appliances. they have to be installed by someone that knows what they are doing. there is more to it than just looking it up in a table.

  • pedmec
    pedmec Member Posts: 1,463

    Any atmospheric category 1 appliance can vent power vent regardless of size. I have 3 million btu's being power vented. If you go thru the tjernlund or fields control catalog you'll see the different style power venters for different applications.

  • parity_check21
    parity_check21 Member Posts: 36

    Can you power vent into a chimney with a reduced diameter?

  • Steamhead
    Steamhead Member Posts: 18,714

    The jobs I've seen where the chimney wasn't big enough used a draft fan on top of the chimney. I'm not a fan (no pun intended) of this, since it's difficult to service if something goes wrong.

    I wonder if it's because pressurizing an existing flue with a fan is problematic for some reason. Maybe a chimney contractor could answer this.

    All Steamed Up, Inc.

    Baltimore, MD, USA
    Steam, Vapor & Hot-Water Heating Specialists
    Oil & Gas Burner Service
    Consulting

  • pedmec
    pedmec Member Posts: 1,463

    No, You can never pressurize a chimney. what if your chimney is cracked? The flue gases would get pushed thru the crack. You can do as steamhead has stated. Put a chimney mounted draft inducer called a rooftop draft inducer. You need to add a control thou. It gets a little pricey. The ones i have worked on have variable frequency drive motors to main a specific draft.

  • mattmia2
    mattmia2 Member Posts: 17,478

    looks like these are designed for booster use with an undersized chimney

    if @Steamhead doesn't know how to design it, it definitely isn't a diy project, you need a chimney specialist to design and install the booster and the liner.

  • Steamhead
    Steamhead Member Posts: 18,714
    edited June 12

    @mattmia2 , we used to see those more than we do now. I wonder if Code changes limited their use?

    All Steamed Up, Inc.

    Baltimore, MD, USA
    Steam, Vapor & Hot-Water Heating Specialists
    Oil & Gas Burner Service
    Consulting