Streetside Incoming 1" copper pipe crushed by contractors

branimal · May 7

I'm having my basement slab redone and the contracter crushed my incoming water pipe with his demo hammer. It's not leaking…. yet. At first he tried to deny it was his doing. But the shiny copper is a dead give away. See pics. The repair sleeve was already there. This is in the areaway (the outside entrance to the basement). My main cutoff is inside the house.

I'm in an old brooklyn rowhouse and we could not find a street cutoff on the sidewalk or the street. According to AI, older homes don't have cutoffs at the curb (buried under the sidewalk with access thru a hole in the ground). I only see cutoffs on new houses and some renovated houses.

I started calling around to plumbers and I've got one coming tomorrow. The contractor also has a contractor coming by.

Kitchen sink pressure seems ok. But based on the crush I can only imagine how bad it will be with multiple fixtures running. This is a 3-family building.

Sweating bullets here. Any advice is appreciated.

FWIW - I've paid 40% of the slab quote. And they are pouring the basement tomorrow knowing they are not getting paid until my pipe is repaired. So good on them.

I've read a tool like WHEELER-REX Pipe Shut Off Tool could crimp the pipe and then re-round it. Also should I ask for flare fittings or will propress be adequate. I heard sweating couplings is not recommended for buried city mains.

hot_rod · May 7

a plumber with a freeze cuff can easily handle that. You need to expose the tube to find the undamaged section to splice. Flare couplings are the correct fitting.

It must be fixed, flow velocity through that deformation will wear the tube wall through

mattmia2 · May 7

since it is copper it is about 1930's or newer and probably post wwii. did you contact the utility to locate the curb stop? there likely is one but it may have been buried when someone regraded or did flatwork. as @hot_rod said, freezing is certainly an option.

branimal · May 7

https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1895978#Comment_1895978

AI—→

Not every Brooklyn townhouse currently has a functioning or accessible curb stop (sidewalk valve) for water. While required for new, replaced, or upgraded water lines under NYC DEP rules, many older properties do not have them. In such cases, the only, or main, water shut-off is often the "wet tap" connection to the city water main itself.

Each property has its own dedicated connection point, known as a wet tap or tap connection, located directly on the city water main.

Individual Isolation: This tap acts as your personal "off switch" at the street main. It allows the city or a plumber to shut off only your home's water without impacting the rest of the block.
Location: If you don't have a curb stop, this connection is typically located about four feet underground beneath the roadway.
Professional Required: Because this valve is deep under the street and often requires excavation, you cannot operate it yourself. You must hire a licensed master plumber to handle the digging and shut-off.

mattmia2 · May 7

the utility is the one that will know what their policy is and was. since it is copper it isn't super old, if the building is older than the 30's the original would have been steel or lead.

hot_rod · May 7

Corrosion to copper, really any metal tube is greatly accelerated when you have aggressive soil, and moisture, the electrolyte.

Based on the roots, they must be a source of moisture? Maybe that repair band?

Any way to reroute it above the slab,

mattmia2 · May 7

looks more likely that it was damaged and someone used a repair clamp that is leaking and has corroded it.

btw steel was sometimes used for services in to the 50's or so and lead in to the 80's so that is likely after 1950 but copper tubing like that became available around 1930.

branimal · May 8

I know flare fittings are the correct repair. I'm having trouble finding someone who wants to flare it. What do you guys think of using a 1" Pack Joint (CTS) Union. It's rated underground water service application.

https://www.supplyhouse.com/Legend-Valve-313-215NL-1-Pack-Joint-CTS-Union-T-4301NL-No-Lead-Bronze

pecmsg · May 8

Is that damage before of after the meter?

leonz · May 8

You should cancel the concrete for today!

The local plumbing code will apply for your water line, it is better to have the plumbing inspector come by and provide you with the exact information long before they go any further.

You should have a curb stop installed to cover all your bases as that section of pipe will need to be replaced.

You may be lucky enough to find a plumber that does trenchless excavation that can install a curb stop after the city plumber installs a water valve at the curb

You need a plumber that does trenchless excavation to do the job quickly by using a soil hammer to pull the new pipe through from the street curb stop to the shut off valve in the home.

hot_rod · May 8

are you sure it is 1”? 3/4” copper, the more common size for a home measures 7/8” od

1” copper would be 1-1/8”

That coupling may be hard to get over the tube which tends to be somewhat oval shape from being coiled. If you have the correct size and can clean the tube well, it should seal.

With a flare fitting, the flare tool rounds the tube so the nut and coupling assemble.

Mad Dog_2 · May 8

As Leonz cautioned ⚠️. Don't be in a rush to bury the Contractor's Blunder. Fix it right. Get the Water Authority on it. Mad Dog

pecmsg · May 8

A section of that line needs to be replaced. That homemade clap is not allowed anywhere.

mattmia2 · May 8

i wouldn't bury a dresser coupling under the floor. flaring that shouldn't be hard for a plumber that does service work. try @JohnNY

Mad Dog_2 · May 8

The water utilities use the Mac-Pac brass dresser couplings on water service repairs all the time, but I would still let them make that call. If its in the 5 Boros call DEP. Mad Dog

mattmia2 · May 8

https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1896089#Comment_1896089

if it is outside it would be fine but this looks like it is under the basement floor which seems like a bad idea.

Mad Dog_2 · May 8

Ok. Its inside the building footprint? Where we come from, who ever does the damage pays to restore it properly. Seems like the OP is getting the runaround. Mad Dog

pecmsg · May 8

https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1896095#Comment_1896095

but what about that very questionable patch?

Mad Dog_2 · May 8

Unacceptable. Mad Dog

branimal · May 8

The damaged pipe is outside the basement entrance door. But within the buildings footprint. The basement entrance door landing is 7' below the curb level.

If I have the space, I'd like to install a curb stop by the basement door. (Under the concrete of course).

OD of the pipe is 1 1/8. 1" Type K copper. Damage is before the meter. (Street side of the house shut off).

I've had a sewer and main company come out - they want to replace the whole line and give me a curb stop on the sidewalk. We are talking about 40' of pipe. They are not interested in replacing that section of pipe. I'll keep calling around and see if someone wants the partial repair job.

The contractor has a plumber who has a freeze cuff. I spoke with him. Sounds like a reasonably knowledgable guy. He would cut the damaged sections out - 2' of pipe. I have the dewalt cordless cutter so we will get a clean cut. With regards to the old copper that may be ovalized, we could use a rerounding tool. He would be using the pack joint I listed above. My main shutoff (inside the building) holds so we only have to freeze the street side. It could work.

Here's the economics of the situation - 90% of the concrete has been poured. We might have a 1.5 yards of concrete worth of work left. My balance due at this point is 50% of the job. The contractors are not trying to get out of the repair. If I hire one of these licensed plumbers and try to stick him with the bill, he's probably not going to finish the concrete work. It could get messy. I also don't want to get screwed myself if things go sideways with his plumber.

NYC DEP doesn't get involved unless there's a leak. They are not concerned with dented pipes.

Per AI

Private Repair: Repairing or replacing a section of your own service line between the curb and the house is generally considered private property maintenance.

No "Street Opening": As long as your plumber is not digging in the street to reach the "wet connection" (the tap), they do not need to pull a DEP permit.

Side question —> This pipe was buried under maybe 3" of concrete and and another 4" of dirt. Why hasn't it frozen in the past? (Again this basement entrance area is 7' below the street level so maybe it's warmer down there).

@pecmsg I hear you loud and clear. The questionable patch (who knows how long its been there) will be replaced as part of this repair. That's probably why the tree roots are all over that area.

mattmia2 · May 8

"ai" is not a rule or regulation.

mattmia2 · May 8

you got lucky with it not freezing, it is usually warmer near the building and in a pit but it should be below the frost line and enter the building below the frost line. that is probably why the legitimate contractor wanted to replace it.

leonz · May 9

If you do not replace that entire line, you will have problems.

branimal · May 9

https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1896111#Comment_1896111

MAybe I got lucky. We've had 2 brutal winters since I've been here. In the 2018 winter pipes froze/burst in my boiler room and on my 1st floor. Main line was fine. This past winter 2025/26 - main line had no issues.

Maybe being 7' under the street level makes a difference. In any case I'm going to insulate the pipes before we seal things up.

EdTheHeaterMan · May 9

https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1896110#Comment_1896110

AI ? ? ?

When I first heard of this A I thing I thought it was referring to artificial insemination. I was told that was wrong. Then being from Philadelphia, I thought AI referred to that basketball player on hte '76ers, Alan Iverson. They called him "AI", Right? No that was also wrong. Then I asked "Well what do you mean when you say A I ? Artificial Intelligence was the answer given. I thought about that for a minute and replied "I prefer my intelligence to be "Actual Intellighece"

pecmsg · May 9

https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1896109#Comment_1896109

Have you called the City?

Dyingtofly · May 14

This has been an interesting read and has made me greatful for my well. No water utility to deal with. I am ever so curious how this has all worked out since the last post. Has the situation been rsolved and if so what repair was made? Just curious.

mattmia2 · May 14

even digging up the street all the way to the main costs less than drilling a new well in all but the most extreme of conditions

czer · May 14

sometimes problems can be a blessing in disguise. The clamp repair is leaking. No telling how much longer the clamp repair might have lasted before it failed and what would that problem potentially have been?