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How does heating oil pricing actually work?

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Historic cold snap!

Prices have risen sharply in the last week, up 50%!

Are people really buying that much more oil, overnight?

Gabriel82reggi

Comments

  • MaxMercy
    MaxMercy Member Posts: 574

    I can't recall such a jump in such a short time other than by natural disasters or war. Just a couple of weeks ago I paid $2.74 per gallon. Today it's $4.10 - about .50c more per gallon than road diesel! I hope my tank lasts until a thaw comes…

    Gabriel82
  • HydronicMike
    HydronicMike Member Posts: 300
    edited January 30

    Heating prices rise from:

    -Lack of supply
    -Global political unrest
    -Threat of war.
    -Rumors of OPEC production cuts
    -Being used as a temporary safe haven for investors (hedge fund, etc).
    -Lower inventory after weekly/monthly/quarterly reporting.
    -A little due to extreme weather.

    -But what really makes the price rise is that gas utility companies lure heavy users to natural gas and give them big discounts as dual fuel users (interruptibles) with the contractual obligation when the utility company tells them, they have to switch back to heating oil. This happens when the weather is extremely cold and gas utility companies simply don't have the product and the infrastructure to provide enough natural gas.
    So now at the refinery, every day these last 2 weeks, there are dozens of tractor trailers pulling heating oil, driving up prices, causing allocation exhaustion. The regular oil customer pays the price. And the large users of gas, who were 'saving money' get that wiped out by having to use the higher priced heating oil-which they caused by being an interruptible.
    Everyone loses.
    Except the refineries and the gas utility.
    Couple that with the fact that Trump is currently threatening to send an armada to Iran, and do something about Cuba, causing fear in the commodities market.

    Oil prices used to drop when the entire northeast got a huge snowstorm as demand from jet fuel, trucking went way down as they weren't using the distillates. Not anymore.

    The bottom line, many reasons for prices to rise. Only basically 2 for them to fall. Oversupply, and failing (or perception of failing) economy (remember covid?).

  • Gabriel82
    Gabriel82 Member Posts: 39

    -well, Iran is cocky with Trump, again...

    -cold outside,

    -even here in Romania we'll get another minus 10-20 Celcius week.

    Heating oil ,similar to diesel(not thick almost residual one) has gone up too...

    In fact ,almost all energy sources (wood briquettes, firewood in bulk, coal briquettes or bituminous coal by 40 ton truck bulk) have got expensive in short time...

    Natural gas stayed the same because of some romanian state scheme for limiting the price(war at border and covid leftover...) .

    But only until April. After that, it will go up too.

    Heating oil is best bought in summer.

    Flows easier , is cheaper.

    And you better have an indoor or underground 5000 liter(1300-1400 gallon) storage tank.

    Considering how unpredictable the world has become is best to buy once when its cheaper...

    Bad to the Bone

    Song by George Thorogood & The Destroyers ‧ 1982

  • Gabriel82
    Gabriel82 Member Posts: 39

    @HydronicMike I don't understand why mess around with natural gas when you have a stable supply of heating oil.

    I used natural gas just for cooking and hot water when I used heating oil.

    And if a big 3000 liter puffer for storing excess energy is used with an oil burning unit ,you never lose much energy.

    If it's a condensing oil unit with barely warm exhaust(50 Celsius) natural gas becomes obsolete 😁

    If it's condensing oil furnace WITH hot water coil too ,then you'll forget about natural gas alltogether 🙄

    Bad to the Bone

    Song by George Thorogood & The Destroyers ‧ 1982

  • jesmed1
    jesmed1 Member Posts: 1,377
    edited January 30

    I think you're in CT? Just north of you here in the Boston suburbs, our season low price was about $3.10 a few weeks ago, and is now up to $3.68. That's an increase in a few weeks of about 60 cents.

    We're members of the Green Energy Consumers Alliance, a Mass/RI non-profit. For a $25/yr fee, we get lower-than-average oil pricing through our regular full-service heating oil company. I think they get a fixed markup over wholesale that is lower than average. So even though our daily rate fluctuates with wholesale prices, the fixed markup means our oil price is routinely in the bottom 20% of oil prices in our area. It's a great deal for MA/RI residents.

    MaxMercy
  • Gabriel82
    Gabriel82 Member Posts: 39

    you had cheap heating oil.

    here in Romania it's always been $3.84 a gallon(3.7 liters).

    Only solution to these price swings is bigger fuel tank.

    Or steel barells 200 liter ones besides what you order.

    A friend of mine is doing this every summer:

    orders a few thousands liters more than what his fuel tank can be filled then pumps it directly from the supply truck in those steel barells.

    Not that "legal" but what a hell, it's Romania and it's doable 😁

    And the truck tank driver keeps quiet.

    And when your main fuel tank gets low ,just use a 12/24v pump to transfer/fill up from the 200 liter steel barells!

    It's harder if the temperature is low (minus 10-20 Celcius) but still you can do it.

    Better than buying at high prices or freeze to death until the truck driver arrives with your expensive heating oil...

    Since I have the dangerous goods authorization even for fuel truck tankers I was thinking of buying an old truck tanker 10000 liters 2500-3000 gallons drive to supllier fill up and use that for the winter 😁

    Parked outside. just pipe it to the house.

    What could go wrong? 😂

    Bad to the Bone

    Song by George Thorogood & The Destroyers ‧ 1982

    MaxMercyEdTheHeaterMan
  • EBEBRATT-Ed
    EBEBRATT-Ed Member Posts: 19,947

    Its all voo doo.

    ethicalpaulGabriel82EdTheHeaterMan
  • SlamDunk
    SlamDunk Member Posts: 1,800

    It has to be the rumor of the US attacking Iran. It may lock up the Hormuz strait which may slow the export of oil from the middle east. Big money is scooping up the oil in preparation causing a strain on supply. As @Gabriel82 said, the only way to ride it out is by having a very large oil tank and filling when prices are low. Some petro consuming businesses call it tankering.

    Gabriel82
  • RTW
    RTW Member Posts: 283

    Here is a reference on who to blame for increases in oil prices. I believe anyone in the sale of oil will blame the futures market as to the cause of a high increase in oil prices that occur over night:

    "Oil futures do play a significant role in controlling the price of oil in the USA.

     They are financial instruments that allow investors to hedge against price fluctuations and reflect expectations about future supply and demand."

    Regards,

    RTW

    SlamDunkLong Beach Ed
  • MaxMercy
    MaxMercy Member Posts: 574

    But would that not also affect the cost of diesel and gasoline, both of which remain stable, and indeed, have been dropping a bit since the first of the year?

  • RTW
    RTW Member Posts: 283

    I dont think the explanation is as simple as one may think. Here is a Link to the US Dept of Energy web site specific to explaining "What drives crude prices: Financial Markets"

    What drives crude oil prices: Financial Markets

    Regards,

    RTW

  • Jamie Hall
    Jamie Hall Member Posts: 27,060

    Another — perhaps simpler — take. In the US and at least most of Canada, the final dealer is free to set whatever price they want on their product — in this case heating oil. They will set it based on what it costs them plus enough extra to cover the other costs involved in picking it up at a wholesale rack and gettting it to your tank, plus that dirty word "profit". The profit can and does vary, depending on the dealer's view of how much you are willing to pay — it's usually pretty small.

    The other costs the dealer has to pay vary widely, and account for a good chunk of why a given product will be more expensive in one place than in another not far away.

    The wholesale price is the interesting one. The "spot" market price fluctuates rather wildly depending on world conditions but more on local demand variations. This is the price the dealer has to pay, though, to serve their "on demand" or "COD" customers. The "futures" price also fluctuates, but not much in response to local demand variation This is the price the dealer purchases fuel at f(in fact, the good ones do purchase futures to cover this) or customers who commit (and usually pay ahead) to purchasing a given amount of fuel in the future — that is, next winter. While it's not always lower than the spot price, it almost always is — sometimes dramatically so.

    The people who sold the futures are committed to deliver that much fuel, whatever happens. Playing the futures market in any commodity is distinctly risky, but you can make a bundle on it if you guess right. You can also lose a bundle…

    Things like extreme weather, the machinations of ultimate suppliers like OPEC or Russia, the devious dealings of shadowy oligarchs, and other bogeymen affect, but do not control, current futures prices, but do NOT affect the cost of oil purchased under previously purchased futures.

    All of which is by pre-buying oil in the spring or early summer can be very advantageous.

    Br. Jamie, osb
    Building superintendent/caretaker, 7200 sq. ft. historic house museum with dependencies in New England
    Gabriel82RTWSlamDunk
  • CoachBoilermaker
    CoachBoilermaker Member Posts: 452

    The price of crude oil has not changed. It's up 5% this month.

    Heating oil is up 50% in a week.

    Again, general oil prices have not changed at all

    MaxMercy
  • RTW
    RTW Member Posts: 283

    I think Mr Coach is on to something:

  • Jamie Hall
    Jamie Hall Member Posts: 27,060

    Demand is up. Way up. If you are dealing with the spot market, what you pay is going o be up. Way up, too.

    Your friendly oil supplier is not a charitable organisation. They are trying to stay in business… If you want stable prices, buy ahead in bulk.

    Br. Jamie, osb
    Building superintendent/caretaker, 7200 sq. ft. historic house museum with dependencies in New England
    MaxMercy
  • SlamDunk
    SlamDunk Member Posts: 1,800
    edited January 31

    That is interesting…..I cant imagine that there are a lot of homes that burn oil. Diesel is diesel. And, Road diesel is taxed higher than heating diesel. Yet, road diesel is cheaper….I would use road diesel if I heated with oil. Five gallons per day.

    Actually, where I live, NC, heating oil is about 25 cents cheaper. Must be a regional thing.

  • pecmsg
    pecmsg Member Posts: 6,933

    you don’t live in the NE.

    SlamDunkMaxMercy
  • jesmed1
    jesmed1 Member Posts: 1,377
    edited January 31

    US Energy Information Administration is an excellent source of detailed info on heating oil and natural gas prices, supply and demand forecasts, etc. Here's their general explanation of the factors involved:

    https://www.eia.gov/energyexplained/heating-oil/factors-affecting-heating-oil-prices.php

    Here in MA, 20% of homes are heated with oil.

    https://www.mass.gov/info-details/how-massachusetts-households-heat-their-homes#:~:text=How%20Massachusetts%20Heats,referring%20to%20the%20ACS%20data.

  • CoachBoilermaker
    CoachBoilermaker Member Posts: 452

    Apparently, in the Northeast, power plants were forced to switch from natural gas to diesel due to supply shortages and a sharp rise in natural gas prices. Because diesel and home heating oil are essentially the same fuel, this shift pushed residential heating oil prices higher.

    jesmed1Long Beach Ed
  • bburd
    bburd Member Posts: 1,282
    edited January 31

    New England does not have sufficient natural gas pipeline capacity; a combination of environmental activism and government preference have prevented expansion, so in very cold weather many large users must switch to fuel oil, with predictable results on the spot market price.


    Bburd
    Gabriel82
  • jesmed1
    jesmed1 Member Posts: 1,377
    edited January 31

    ^^ That is interesting. I hadn't heard about NE power plants shifting to diesel. After some Googling I found a NY Times article from a few days ago that said the surge in demand for natural gas has caused them to switch to diesel, with the result that "At one point last weekend, New England appeared to be one of the world’s leading consumers of oil for electricity generation."

    A related search turned up some old news articles about a Peabody MA "peaker" electric plant being built a few years ago to provide peak-demand electricity from natural gas and diesel. Apparently the plant is online now and could be one of the plants sucking up the diesel. The plant is now called the "Northeast Reliabillity Center" and provides electricity for 14 MA towns that have their own "municipal light plants" (MLP's). MLP's are an odd MA thing where many towns have their own electric company that buys electricity from the power plants and then sells it on to the town residents.

    Connecting the dots, it wouldn't surprise me if this new "Northeast Reliability Center" is one of the plants now driving up the price of heating oil.

  • jesmed1
    jesmed1 Member Posts: 1,377
    edited January 31

    This article from the Energy Information Agency from almost exactly one year ago describes an apparently identical situation in which peak electrical demand was supplied by oil and coal instead of natural gas. Given our current cold snap in the Northeast, history may be repeating itself.

    https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=64484

  • Jamie Hall
    Jamie Hall Member Posts: 27,060

    History is repeating itself. It has a way of doing that…

    Natural gas spot prices are up, too. When you can get it at all.

    Br. Jamie, osb
    Building superintendent/caretaker, 7200 sq. ft. historic house museum with dependencies in New England
  • EBEBRATT-Ed
    EBEBRATT-Ed Member Posts: 19,947

    @jesmed1

    My brother works in a municipal power plant here in Ma. They burn either #2 oil or gas. Most of the time because they are not a huge plant and are a more expensive plant to run, they sit idle waiting for the call from ISO New England to go on line.

    This could be due to increased demand (like weather extremes) or if another plant goes down due to an emergency or planned maintenance.

    With the weather we have had they are on line now burning oil. Every year they go off gas (I think in October) because the gas company can't supply them in the winter. There are several things going on in MA. not to get into politics but they cancelled 2 gas pipeline projects and the windmills some think are great can't produce enough power to cover their maintenance costs. In addition, NE used to have around 8 nukes which I think 1 is left so they have backed themselves into a corner with not an easy way out. Solar is a drop in the bucket and doesn't work in 2' of snow.

    So yeah no doubt energy prices are up. Everyone around here is complaining about Eversource that sells electricity and gas, some say its the Governor.

    All i know is I am lucky to live in Chicopee which has its own electric company owned by the city I guess. There are a few of them in this area. Westfield, Holyoke, South Hadley and Chicopee all located in a 8 mile radius have their own electric companies and keep the prices down

  • Gabriel82
    Gabriel82 Member Posts: 39

    @bburd I was just about to ask what a hell happened to renewable energy ANYWAY?!

    But EBEBRATT-Ed cleared things up for me...

    There is no renewable energy at minus 10-20 Celcius+ snow.

    Imagine no heating oil or diesel either available at ANY price...

    So this is how prices work for heating oil: greed + weather and availability…

    The smart dudes buy a big-BIGGEST heating oil tanker when it's cheap and forget about these "price things"...

    Even if diesel/heating oil has a maximum "theoretical availability" of 12-24 months.

    From my experience even in diesel engine ,it will light up/start harder with old fuel but still run/burn and produce the power you want/need!

    As for soot ,I can't say(or care) 😁

    If it gets to that the mechanic will deal with it.

    Or the heating tehnician when maintenance is to be done!

    Am curios how cheap this heating oil will get in summer in USA.

    Around here in Romania you can live next to Lukoil refinery they will still keep prices up...

    More so with this Russia -Ukraine "thing"...

    Bad to the Bone

    Song by George Thorogood & The Destroyers ‧ 1982

  • jesmed1
    jesmed1 Member Posts: 1,377
    edited February 1

    @EBEBRATT-Ed

    Very interesting. So your brother has direct insight into the bigger picture of where our electricity comes from. I live in Norwood which is also a "municipal light plant" town with its own electric co (Norwood Electric).

    It's unfortunate that we seem to have backed ourselves into a corner re energy here in the Northeast. We could have done like the French and build some more modern nuclear plants as a bridge to wider-scale renewables, but now we're stuck with both insufficient renewables and insufficient natural gas distribution.

    At least we're not having to burn the furniture to stay warm…

  • Don_175
    Don_175 Member Posts: 176

    I joined that same consumer energy alliance. I have found that I could routinely get a cheaper price from one of my local discount dealers. In the fall, the energy alliance price was $.20 more per gallon. The woman told me that it would be better in the winter when prices spike. I just ordered oil, and it was again cheaper than the energy alliance price. I paid $3.29 right before the big storm. I just checked today. My discount dealer is $3.54. Green Energy is $3.65. I’m in W Mass so there are not a ton of companies here. Maybe near Boston there is more competition.

    jesmed1
  • jesmed1
    jesmed1 Member Posts: 1,377
    edited February 1

    @Don_175 Yes, a discount dealer is going to be cheaper, and if I were the sole homeowner, I might go that route. But because we're in a condo association, the other owners want the reassurance of having a full-service oil company for emergency repairs, etc. So we're taking the "middle path" of paying more for a full-service oil company while still getting some discount from the Green Energy pricing.

    One thing I've found about the Green Energy pricing is that they "force" their dealers to lower their retail prices more or less in lock-step with wholesale price reductions, while the other dealers take longer to pass the wholesale price drop on to their customers. So the most benefit of the Green Energy pricing comes when oil prices are falling.

  • Intplm.
    Intplm. Member Posts: 2,932

    The old supply and demand. And then there's price gouging.

    jesmed1Gabriel82
  • RTW
    RTW Member Posts: 283

    Something hardly mentioned:

    "Yes, oil is a finite resource, meaning that it will eventually be depleted as it is consumed faster than it can be naturally replenished."

    My geology professor taught back in the early eights that at some point it becomes no longer economically feasible to extract oil. He thought the tipping point would be sometime in latter first quarter of the 21st century, but advancements since then have postponed the inevitable

    Regards,

    RTW

  • Long Beach Ed
    Long Beach Ed Member Posts: 1,826
    edited February 1

    When we burned oil in our buildings, we negotiated with a smaller dealer to serve us at the price posted daily in the Wall Street Journal. This avoided the gouging nonsense and he was happy to sell us the oil, making a steady profit and got our business for twenty years.

    We upgraded to gas when it became the cheapest choice about twelve years ago. With New York's push to outlaw gas and oil heating, we're moving to electric heat, paid fully by the tenants in many of our apartments.

    Gabriel82
  • Gabriel82
    Gabriel82 Member Posts: 39

    @Long Beach Ed Did I read that right? "electric heating"?

    I have to ask : how much 1Kwh costs there?!

    Just by comparison 1Kwh here in Romania costs 1,5Ron ( 1 liter of heating oil is a bit more than $1 US dollar (4,45 ron vs 4,27 Ron for $1 US dollar).

    And for 1 liter of heating oil you get about 11Kwh of energy.

    How you use it/burn it to get that energy into heat is your "problem"!

    So : to pay about 4 times more per unit/Kwh just to heat your house would be insane or plain stupid, here.

    Only using a heat pump might be worth it ,especially since "somebody" is forcing you to do so...

    Talk about how prices work...

    It is voo doo 😂🙄

    Bad to the Bone

    Song by George Thorogood & The Destroyers ‧ 1982