Steam Near Boiler Piping

109A_5 · October 29

I always have a hot dust smell at the first or second run at the beginning of the heating season. Is the hot oil haze coming out of the vents ? Maybe take a step back and do a bunch of skimming.

SMRTK · October 29

make up is there. Image below. Yes, more skimming for sure. It’s bouncing all over the place. I want to get it up and check for leaks (none yet) then I’ll let it cool a bit and skim some more tonight and tomorrow. And then maybe again here and there through the week. My assumption is the oils in the pipes from cutting will be coming back to the boiler eventually.

109A_5 · October 29

" Not seeing a makeup water valve, usually it is kind of close to the boiler. "

Still not seeing the Valve.

ethicalpaul · October 30

I looked up the Utica skimming instructions, and they don't mention adding some washing soda or TSP substitute like some manufacturers do. I found it cuts the oil and makes skimming far easier and shorter process.

Run some of that detergent in the boiler for a short while and then skim. Nice install! I am also a little curious where the makeup water valve is 😅

SMRTK · October 30

the valve to make up water is located above and behind the boiler on the wall. Where it was when I bought the house. I intend to relocate it to the copper pipe on the return leg when I drain it down next. Is that what you were looking for or am I misunderstanding. Picture is grainy but it is there.

mattmia2 · October 30

if you skim a little bit more often you can keep from throwing as much of the oil out in to the system and there will be less to work its way back.

109A_5 · October 30

If the original valve is in good condition I probably would have just added a second valve near the boiler when installing the new pipe.

mattmia2 · October 30

https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1870098#Comment_1870098

i would keep both valves either way, give you more options when the one near the boiler fails.

EBEBRATT-Ed · October 30

The smell and haze is normal burning the coating off the pipe. No pressure is a good thing as long as everything is heating.

Haze and smell from piping and boiler are completely normal. May need 4-6 hours of running to clear up

SMRTK · October 30

With respect to the valve I am going to keep the original and add a second near the boiler. Keeping it will allow me to add the second without draining down the system. The second valve will make service at the boiler that much easier. Having to monitor while operating the valve where it is located is a pain.

I am going to keep on skimming. I did not add TSP or another detergent as I wanted to stick with the manufacturers instructions. If this does not get noticeably better over the next week or so I will deviate.

The haze went away finally after a few hours.

ChrisJ · October 30

https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1869167#Comment_1869167

I'm going with sloppy work using a hatchet / axe etc.

I highly doubt steam or anything else did that, unless there's actual rott / soft wood in the area. Even then I still think someone hacked it out to clear the steam piping before it was finished. Fire woud've left black / charcoaled wood.

109A_5 · October 30

https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1870118#Comment_1870118

Not sure how a hatchet / axe etc. would char the wood, I thought the OP said it was charred, looks charred to me in some of the pictures directly above the boiler.

ChrisJ · October 30

https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1870122#Comment_1870122

I missed that.

But honestly, the pictures don't show it good enough IMO. It's hard to tell.

But yeah, you're right, steam didn't do that nor did the piping unless something went horribly wrong.

EBEBRATT-Ed · October 30

There was a really bad fire in my town yeas ago which was a total loss. The local FD blamed the steam system saying the steam pipes rested on wood and charred the wood. They claim that when the wood gets charred its ignition point is reduced.

I was skeptical back then and still am. I think if that was true there would be few steam heated houses standing

ChrisJ · October 30

https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1870151#Comment_1870151

I generally find it's harder to light charcoal than wood.

From my own experience I'd argue it's harder. But the only experience I have from steam piping touching wood is it often tends to produce expansion noises. I've certainly never seen any darkening or anything, and all of my steam radiators are sitting on wood floors. Those cast iron feet aren't exactly cool.

ethicalpaul · October 30

https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1870151#Comment_1870151

The ignition point is reduced to 212 degrees LOLOL

mattmia2 · October 30

https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1870151#Comment_1870151

that can happen at temps close to the ignition point. it doesn't happen at low pressure steam temps.

unless they were running like 500 psi steam it wasn't the steam piping. It could dry wood out and make some other ignition source more likely to ignite it.

SMRTK · October 31

Following up on the charred wood part of the conversation I took better photos last night and they are inline below. There is one board that looks like it may have been cut (third image) for pipe clearance. All of them are in fact charred. Two are near the previous pipe joints (1st and 3rd photo) which might be explained by irresponsible use of a torch when trying to remove pipes in the past. The other two were not near joints, unless there were joints there originally and they were removed for some reason.

The house is old, 1890, and the joists in the basement are pretty dry. I do not think that would have made it any easier, or even possible, for the pipes themselves to create the char, just a statement on the condition of the wood.

I tend to move into homes that need some (a lot) of work and this house is no exception. Sometime the reasons behind how the house ended up where it is is lost to history. This is likely the case here. My intention is to repair and maintain this house for as long as I stay here. I will do my best to not burn any structural members in the process…

SMRTK · October 31

I wanted to take a moment to thank all of you for your feedback and insight. I can honestly say that I would not have been able to do the work that I did without it. I was turned on to the heating help site and this forum by a local service tech and I am grateful for that chance encounter as well. I know there are probably companies here (Southeast Michigan) that can work on steam boilers but they are few and far between. I had several of the local companies out and all of them proved almost immediately their lack of experience. Their screwdrivers only turned clockwise. Many of them were also quick to offer up a replacement of the steam system with something more in their comfort zone. Maybe that would have been the way to go but there is something about steam that I find romantic and nostalgic.

I still have some work to do (skimming, skimming, skimming, adding the valve near the return and insulation) and I will likely have many additional questions. I will do some research first and then start those off in another fresh thread. For now though, my sincerest thank you.

David

109A_5 · October 31

As far as charred wood goes, I'm sticking with my dry fired boiler theory. Enjoy your new boiler.

Pumpguy · October 31

Here's a thought about the charred wood. I wonder if someone used a cutting torch on it to get needed clearance for piping, same as if it was a steel beam?

EBEBRATT-Ed · October 31

@SMRTK

Congratulations you did a nice job

mattmia2 · October 31

there may have been plaster or transite sheet on the ceiling above an old boiler and gaps in that around the steam pipes and there was a fire from the boiler or something near the boiler or something unrelated and the covering protected most of the wood. the white finish of some sort on some of the floor is likely shellac that was used to seal in the smell from the fire. depending on when it happened there may be permits with the city for the repair.

Jamie Hall · October 31

Whatever did that charring… somebody was either there, or fortuitously saw it very quickly. 15 minutes and that would have been a full fledged fire.

JUGHNE · October 31

I have seen charred ceiling joists in attics.

First I thought wire joints arching but then realized it was from wire joint soldering with a blow torch. Knob and tube wiring was (supposed to be) installed with soldered joints.

Steam Near Boiler Piping

Comments

Categories