1920s Steam System - How to Add Main Vents
Hi,
I'm by no stretch a master at steam heat, but it's been pointed out to me on several occasions that the "main vents" in my steam system(s) have been plugged (I say systems because I have a duplex with separate boilers).
Long story short, I am wondering if A) it's a good idea to replace the plugs with new main vents (something like this) and B) what are the proper fittings and vents that I need in order to properly install main vents again. In one of my units it appears that there is only one plug, in the other it appears that there are two spots that have been plugged. Should any and all plugs receive a new vent?
Please see the images below:
Unit A:
Unit B:
Comments
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If there are no other main vents in your system, you would most likely benefit from installing main vents. Have you inspected the actual far end of the mains for vents. At the pipe transition from steam main to steam main extension, often called a dry return (typically the farthest point away from the boiler).
If those (pictured) pipe plugs are removed and those tappings are used the main vent should be offset vertically then horizontally so to minimize any damage from water hammer. Main vents usually have 1/2 or 3/4 inch pipe threads.
If there is more than one main from a single boiler, each main should be vented to best balance the venting of the steam mains.
Gorton #1 and Gorton #2 and Barnes & Jones Big Mouth BJ-2BM / BJ-3BM are popular main vents.
National - U.S. Gas Boiler 45+ Years Old
Steam 300 SQ. FT. - EDR 347
One Pipe System0 -
Does this installation look correct (just found this on youtube)? It has a small horizontal fitting, a 90 degree fitting, and then the vent itself is installed.
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If I'm understanding correctly, from the dry line I should go:
- Short pipe meeting size of plug diameter
- 90 degree fitting
- 8" - 10" riser
- Bushing
- Vent
Or combine 1. & 2. with a male to female 90 degree fitting
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Do you know of any thermal grade wrap that I could put on there? I believe that's what my inspector recommended way back when I bought the house.
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How would I decide what size Gorton I use? or main line vent in general
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Something like this. The amount of venting depends on the size and length of the main and if any balancing is required with multiple mains of different length from the same boiler. Fiberglass pipe insulation.
National - U.S. Gas Boiler 45+ Years Old
Steam 300 SQ. FT. - EDR 347
One Pipe System0 -
» The amount of venting depends on the size and length of the main
I would rephrase that:
The amount of venting depends on the ability of the boiler to provide steam. When pressure builds up before the main is hot all the way around, then you know you need more venting.
The steam can only go as fast as it heats the main above the boiling point of water.. you need enough venting to accomodate that, and more doesn't help.
What @109A_5 is saying is true in the sense that the main is typically sized for the system, and the boiler is sized for the system, so ideally it comes to the same thing.
A Tee with two vents on it is a good idea in any case because when one fails you'll still have heat everywhere. Below is my setup, with one Gorton and one Maid-o-Mist main vent, and it's plenty for my 2.5" 80-foot-long main. The MoM is a screaming bargain and lets plenty of air out. I went with a Gorton first because that's what all the cool kids get.
cheers -m0 -
Measure the length and diameter of each main and post the figures here. We can tell you what you need.
All Steamed Up, Inc.
Towson, MD, USA
Steam, Vapor & Hot-Water Heating Specialists
Oil & Gas Burner Service
Consulting1 -
This statement is also system dependent.
" The amount of venting depends on the ability of the boiler to provide steam. When pressure builds up before the main is hot all the way around, then you know you need more venting. "
My system never goes over 2 inches of water column regardless if the main vent is used or valved off. The predominant benefit (main vent versus no (or poor) main venting) is with a hot main the steam will propagate faster, purging the air out as fast as possible, filling the main with steam as fast as possible.
You want enough venting so when the mains are hot the steam will fill the main as fast as possible. There is a point of diminishing returns. Since even with a hot main the steam will only move so fast.
National - U.S. Gas Boiler 45+ Years Old
Steam 300 SQ. FT. - EDR 347
One Pipe System1 -
Ignore the beautiful electrical work going on connecting my thermostat and boiler. Could you help me understand which is my "main"? Thanks.
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The "main". Start with the pipe coming straight up from the T on the side of the boiler in the first picture. That's the beginning of your main, and it remains a main all around the basement until you get to the very last radiator takeoff. It may split, in which case you now have two mains…
And it needs to be vented, which can be done anywhere after the last radiator takeoff and before it drops to the boiler.
Now it looks as though you have at least two drops — they're also in that first picture — and it looks as though one of them may have a pipe from a near floor level pipe, which probably picks up a drop somewhere else in the basement. Problem. Those to drops join above the water line, and that may give some problems. Have to see more to know.
Problem number two: the insulation on those pipes has asbestos…
Br. Jamie, osb
Building superintendent/caretaker, 7200 sq. ft. historic house museum with dependencies in New England1 -
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This would have been ok on the original boiler with a water line that was above this point, it is not ok with this boiler where it is now above the water line as @Jamie Hall said.
I thought i was looking at a mirror for a moment until I relaized there were 2 boilers.
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If it means anything, as @mattmia2 noted, there are two boilers (house is a duplex), and the boiler in subject supplies heat to the 2nd floor of the house and nothing on the first floor, just for what it is worth.
Also, it sounds like you are saying that neither of these plugs are part of the line that would be considered the main.
The issue that you are both signaling, I presume has been there for a long, long time. I had to have a thermopile replaced on this boiler last winter, and the HVAC co. laughed when they realized how old my boiler(s) are (1970 - 1975 or so). I guess the point is… not knowing how much time I have left on these boilers, is it even worth doing anything at this stage on either the drop issue you are talking about, or adding vents to my main?
I plan to just wrap the insulation where there is asbestos, I don't see a reason to do anything else.0 -
Those are probably dry returns/main extensions and those plugs are probably where the main vents were. Without main vents you will have the problem that having the returns connect above the water line causes all the time, namely that the air can't get out of one (or in this case both) of the mains.
That asbestos looks like it would come loose if you tried to wrap it in something.
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Unless there are presently vents at the far end of the mains, the vents could be added here.
National - U.S. Gas Boiler 45+ Years Old
Steam 300 SQ. FT. - EDR 347
One Pipe System0 -
Thanks everyone for the help, learning a lot here.
To answer this question:
- The line that goes off to the right the right (from perspective of @109A_5's photo) measures about 183" or 15' 3" before it returns
- The line that goes to the left measures 321" or 26' 9" before it returns
- It's hard to tell because of the insulation, but I believe the mains are 2" in diameter. The return pipes are smaller, probably 1.5".
Let me know if this makes sense. One challenge that I am foreseeing is that there is limited space to work above these pipes if I am installing vents here, particularly with the pipe on the left (in picture below) as the main for the other boiler runs right above it.
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There are no vents at the end of the mains presently from what I could tell.
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