Type K copper pipe

scatgo · September 25

I am going to use type k for the water supple to my house. Is there a safe braze I can use? I have seen what the water dose to solder in my hose and I dont want to have to dig up my yard to fix a leak at a soldered joint?

Larry Weingarten · September 25

Hi, Maybe a dumb question, but do you have a water quality report for your water? I ask because if the water is agressive enough to damage solder, I'd be concerned about what it will do to copper. Some sort of plastic piping might last longer, even if it means putting it in conduit to prevent damage and to make it far easier to replace if ever needed.

Yours, Larry

Jamie Hall · September 25

This is your outside line — perhaps from a well to the house? If so, you'll be a lot happier using polyethylene or other flexible plastic pipe…

EBEBRATT-Ed · September 25

I looked on the Harris web site at their brazing rods. I couldn't find any information on whether it is allowed to use on drinking water. It contains copper, silver and phosphorus.

I couldn't find that it is NSF approved.

You could Google Harris and call them

mattmia2 · September 25

https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1865935#Comment_1865935

It would come from the plumbing code(or the utility code), the code would say if brazing is an approved method then it would have a spec for the materials and you'd have to find a brazing rod that meets that spec.

usually they use a flare fitting.

pecmsg · September 25

Harras Stay Brite #8 is NSF Approved. It is a low temp solder not brazing a rod.

ChrisJ · September 25

Code does not allow you to bury a soldered line regardless, so it would need to be brazed.

That said, I'd use either hammer flares or pack joints or similar. That's what's typically done on water service lines.

https://www.supplyhouse.com/Legend-Valve-313-204NL-3-4-Pack-Joint-CTS-x-MNPT-Coupling-T-4300NL-No-Lead-Bronze

https://www.supplyhouse.com/Legend-Valve-313-214NL-3-4-Pack-Joint-CTS-Union-T-4301NL-No-Lead-Bronze

I even used one in my basement rather than soldering it because it seemed like a really good connection and could easily be worked on. It's a compression joint with a very thick heavy rubber gasket and a metal clamp that secures the pipe. I believe they're called pack joints because they used to use lead packing.

These aren't cheap cheesy compression fittings, they're literally what water companies use for this work.

Intplm. · September 26

How much copper -K- type tubing will you need for your hose? If you need to make a joint, consider using a compression joint suited for a buried water supply, or better yet, a full length of tubing with no joint at all.

pecmsg · September 26

https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/202148/type-k-copper-pipe

You can get them in 100' rolls.

scatgo · September 28

Thanks for the help.

scatgo · September 29

Unfortunately i live on a hill. the pipe goes straight out but has to go down somewhere to meet the shutoff at the curb

scatgo · September 29

Would type k soft be ok for underground?

scatgo · September 29

and can type k hard be hammer flared?

mattmia2 · September 29

if it is in a roll it is soft copper. you can anneal it with a torch if you need to.

ChrisJ · September 29

You want type K soft.

It comes in a roll. Make sure you use a PVC sleeve anywhere it goes through concrete etc.

EBEBRATT-Ed · September 29

Yes it can me flared

hot_rod · September 29

what size tube? Above 1” it can be gnarly to handle, roll out kink free

Sweat fitting don’t work great as coiled soft copper is not perfectly round

Get the correct flare tool, they drive with a small dingle jack easily. You do not need a flare bar

Ream the burr after you cut the tube.

Put the nut on first😮

scatgo · September 29

Thanks. Is plastic a option for under ground?

mattmia2 · September 29

plastic is probably the best option for underground. unless you're an electrician.

ChrisJ · September 29

https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1866308#Comment_1866308

1 size larger polyethylene pipe.

Meaning if you had 3/4" copper go with 1" polyethylene.

Jamie Hall · September 29

https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1866308#Comment_1866308

Far superior to copper, as I said a few posts earlier. There really is no excuse for installing copper pipe for underground water service, at least in my opinion, and hasn't been for decades (I started specifying it and using it for well lines somewhere around 1960…)(and some of those lines are still in service; haven't had one actually fail yet that I know of)).

GGross · September 29

the vast majority of underground water service pipe I sell is the blue SDR9 water service poly pipe. it's sold in either a copper tube size, or iron pipe size variant, need to know which you get so you know the proper fittings to buy (cts or ips) you can use the brass water service fittings, (commonly called Ford fittings, though Ford is a brand many make them!) and if you are using those compression style ford fittings you need to use a stainless steel stiffener insert. If it were mine I would only want a connection made underground at the water source, and the next connection in the house, I would do what I could to get a roll long enough to make the whole run with no couplings, not that there is a pattern of leaks I just don't like buried couplings if they can be avoided.

scatgo · September 29

Starting to sound like plastic might be the best bet for my situation. Didn't want to go that way for health concerns. I heard chemicals can leach into the water. Can you give me more information on the fittings? I should have no problem getting a straight run with no connections between my basement and the street.

Thanks

mattmia2 · September 29

Probably more copper leaches out of the copper than anything from the plastic though it is sub parts per billion amounts in both cases.

Jamie Hall · September 29

That main thing with plastic is that it be NSF approved. If it is — it's pretty free of anything leaching out of it. Polyethylene — which is what you'd be using — hasn't much of anything to leach anyway.

Copper. depending on the pH of the water, will leach varying amounts of copper into your water. Is this a problem? Not that I know of from a health standpoiint.

GGross · September 29

https://www.tsconline.com/Product/350122

This link is the type I sell the most (that is not my company website just first that came up when I searched it)

scatgo · September 29

Thanks. Great info. I got it about the CTS or IPS. Just a little more info on fittings and I should be good.

MikeL_2 · September 29

Not sure if anyone mentioned a tracer wire? Anytime we bury plastic pipe we zip tie a tracer wire to it.

mattmia2 · September 29

I think in most jurisdictions it is only required for gas but it is still a good idea.

Intplm. · September 30

Polly Ethilean (PE) is a great choice—no need to use type-K- copper. Maybe use 160# or greater rather than the standard 100# PE

Type K copper pipe

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