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Type K copper pipe

scatgo
scatgo Member Posts: 37
in Plumbing

I am going to use type k for the water supple to my house. Is there a safe braze I can use? I have seen what the water dose to solder in my hose and I dont want to have to dig up my yard to fix a leak at a soldered joint?

Comments

  • Larry Weingarten
    Larry Weingarten Member Posts: 3,972

    Hi, Maybe a dumb question, but do you have a water quality report for your water? I ask because if the water is agressive enough to damage solder, I'd be concerned about what it will do to copper. Some sort of plastic piping might last longer, even if it means putting it in conduit to prevent damage and to make it far easier to replace if ever needed.

    Yours, Larry

    HydronicMikeEdTheHeaterManPC7060
  • Jamie Hall
    Jamie Hall Member Posts: 26,515

    This is your outside line — perhaps from a well to the house? If so, you'll be a lot happier using polyethylene or other flexible plastic pipe…

    Br. Jamie, osb
    Building superintendent/caretaker, 7200 sq. ft. historic house museum with dependencies in New England
    EdTheHeaterManPC7060
  • EBEBRATT-Ed
    EBEBRATT-Ed Member Posts: 18,833

    I looked on the Harris web site at their brazing rods. I couldn't find any information on whether it is allowed to use on drinking water. It contains copper, silver and phosphorus.

    I couldn't find that it is NSF approved.

    You could Google Harris and call them

  • mattmia2
    mattmia2 Member Posts: 14,608
    https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1865935#Comment_1865935

    It would come from the plumbing code(or the utility code), the code would say if brazing is an approved method then it would have a spec for the materials and you'd have to find a brazing rod that meets that spec.

    usually they use a flare fitting.

    EdTheHeaterMan
  • pecmsg
    pecmsg Member Posts: 6,582

    Harras Stay Brite #8 is NSF Approved. It is a low temp solder not brazing a rod.

  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 16,965
    edited September 25

    Code does not allow you to bury a soldered line regardless, so it would need to be brazed.

    That said, I'd use either hammer flares or pack joints or similar. That's what's typically done on water service lines.

    https://www.supplyhouse.com/Legend-Valve-313-204NL-3-4-Pack-Joint-CTS-x-MNPT-Coupling-T-4300NL-No-Lead-Bronze

    https://www.supplyhouse.com/Legend-Valve-313-214NL-3-4-Pack-Joint-CTS-Union-T-4301NL-No-Lead-Bronze

    I even used one in my basement rather than soldering it because it seemed like a really good connection and could easily be worked on. It's a compression joint with a very thick heavy rubber gasket and a metal clamp that secures the pipe. I believe they're called pack joints because they used to use lead packing.

    These aren't cheap cheesy compression fittings, they're literally what water companies use for this work.

    IMG_20200716_213743.jpg

    Single pipe 392sqft system with an EG-40 rated for 325sqft and it's silent and balanced at all times.

    Ironman
  • Intplm.
    Intplm. Member Posts: 2,752

    How much copper -K- type tubing will you need for your hose? If you need to make a joint, consider using a compression joint suited for a buried water supply, or better yet, a full length of tubing with no joint at all.

  • pecmsg
    pecmsg Member Posts: 6,582
    https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/202148/type-k-copper-pipe

    You can get them in 100' rolls.

  • scatgo
    scatgo Member Posts: 37

    Thanks for the help.

  • scatgo
    scatgo Member Posts: 37

    Unfortunately i live on a hill. the pipe goes straight out but has to go down somewhere to meet the shutoff at the curb

  • scatgo
    scatgo Member Posts: 37

    Would type k soft be ok for underground?

  • scatgo
    scatgo Member Posts: 37

    and can type k hard be hammer flared?

  • mattmia2
    mattmia2 Member Posts: 14,608

    if it is in a roll it is soft copper. you can anneal it with a torch if you need to.

  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 16,965

    You want type K soft.

    It comes in a roll. Make sure you use a PVC sleeve anywhere it goes through concrete etc.

    Single pipe 392sqft system with an EG-40 rated for 325sqft and it's silent and balanced at all times.

    stagehand1
  • EBEBRATT-Ed
    EBEBRATT-Ed Member Posts: 18,833

    Yes it can me flared

  • hot_rod
    hot_rod Member Posts: 25,918

    what size tube? Above 1” it can be gnarly to handle, roll out kink free

    Sweat fitting don’t work great as coiled soft copper is not perfectly round

    Get the correct flare tool, they drive with a small dingle jack easily. You do not need a flare bar

    Ream the burr after you cut the tube.

    Put the nut on first😮

    Bob "hot rod" Rohr
    trainer for Caleffi NA
    Living the hydronic dream
  • scatgo
    scatgo Member Posts: 37

    Thanks. Is plastic a option for under ground?

  • mattmia2
    mattmia2 Member Posts: 14,608

    plastic is probably the best option for underground. unless you're an electrician.

  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 16,965
    https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1866308#Comment_1866308

    1 size larger polyethylene pipe.

    Meaning if you had 3/4" copper go with 1" polyethylene.

    Single pipe 392sqft system with an EG-40 rated for 325sqft and it's silent and balanced at all times.

    PC7060
  • Jamie Hall
    Jamie Hall Member Posts: 26,515
    https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1866308#Comment_1866308

    Far superior to copper, as I said a few posts earlier. There really is no excuse for installing copper pipe for underground water service, at least in my opinion, and hasn't been for decades (I started specifying it and using it for well lines somewhere around 1960…)(and some of those lines are still in service; haven't had one actually fail yet that I know of)).

    Br. Jamie, osb
    Building superintendent/caretaker, 7200 sq. ft. historic house museum with dependencies in New England
  • GGross
    GGross Member Posts: 1,650

    the vast majority of underground water service pipe I sell is the blue SDR9 water service poly pipe. it's sold in either a copper tube size, or iron pipe size variant, need to know which you get so you know the proper fittings to buy (cts or ips) you can use the brass water service fittings, (commonly called Ford fittings, though Ford is a brand many make them!) and if you are using those compression style ford fittings you need to use a stainless steel stiffener insert. If it were mine I would only want a connection made underground at the water source, and the next connection in the house, I would do what I could to get a roll long enough to make the whole run with no couplings, not that there is a pattern of leaks I just don't like buried couplings if they can be avoided.

    scatgo
  • scatgo
    scatgo Member Posts: 37

    Starting to sound like plastic might be the best bet for my situation. Didn't want to go that way for health concerns. I heard chemicals can leach into the water. Can you give me more information on the fittings? I should have no problem getting a straight run with no connections between my basement and the street.

    Thanks

  • mattmia2
    mattmia2 Member Posts: 14,608

    Probably more copper leaches out of the copper than anything from the plastic though it is sub parts per billion amounts in both cases.

  • Jamie Hall
    Jamie Hall Member Posts: 26,515

    That main thing with plastic is that it be NSF approved. If it is — it's pretty free of anything leaching out of it. Polyethylene — which is what you'd be using — hasn't much of anything to leach anyway.

    Copper. depending on the pH of the water, will leach varying amounts of copper into your water. Is this a problem? Not that I know of from a health standpoiint.

    Br. Jamie, osb
    Building superintendent/caretaker, 7200 sq. ft. historic house museum with dependencies in New England
    scatgo
  • GGross
    GGross Member Posts: 1,650

    https://www.tsconline.com/Product/350122

    This link is the type I sell the most (that is not my company website just first that came up when I searched it)

    scatgo
  • scatgo
    scatgo Member Posts: 37

    Thanks. Great info. I got it about the CTS or IPS. Just a little more info on fittings and I should be good.

  • MikeL_2
    MikeL_2 Member Posts: 537

    Not sure if anyone mentioned a tracer wire? Anytime we bury plastic pipe we zip tie a tracer wire to it.

    mattmia2
  • mattmia2
    mattmia2 Member Posts: 14,608

    I think in most jurisdictions it is only required for gas but it is still a good idea.

  • Intplm.
    Intplm. Member Posts: 2,752

    Polly Ethilean (PE) is a great choice—no need to use type-K- copper. Maybe use 160# or greater rather than the standard 100# PE

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