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I'm getting solar panels. I'll let you know how it goes in this discussion thread.

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Comments

  • SlamDunk
    SlamDunk Member Posts: 1,761
    edited July 17

    Solar is the way to go if you can. I looked at the sunpower website many years go and I had an ideal, shallow roof facing south. But my neighbothood of single story bungalows is being turned into a neighborhood of mega mansions with no yards. The mandatory 15' setbacks have been reduced to 5', so I decided against it. No neighboring houses have changed but my neighbor's wax myrtle privacy screen grew and has shaded atleast 20% of my roof so I'm glad I didnt waste the money. But, maybe the shade helps reduce my cooling bill. Good luck with your project!

    ethicalpaul
  • jumper
    jumper Member Posts: 2,468

    Net meter is economically crazy. Obviously. Distribution and delivery is often way more costly than energy. Eventually PUC must renege (change rules) or continue to cheat paying customers.

    If I was likely to keep home in family for decades I'd buy solar and keep it independent from grid. Use output for thermal storage. Economics of batteries depend on longevity. Longevity is more important than efficiency. Unless prices go down.

  • Jamie Hall
    Jamie Hall Member Posts: 26,222

    True — distribution costs are a goodly chunk of the bill. However, there is an interesting problem relating to how to charge for (or recover the cost of) the power production part of the equation. Just how much is a kilowatt-hour of energy cost? What do you include in the cost? Just using the system which we have installed, depending on how you figure such things as depreciation, cost of land, maintenance, etc., a very good argument can be made that a kilowatt-hour from our array is worth between $0.27 and $0.35 in today's money. Should the power company pay the owner of the array that? As it happens, that is what the power company in our area effectively pays under 1:1 net metering.

    But determining the actual value of a kilowatt-hour of power from any given PV array would be a rather difficult computation…

    Now to make things even more messy, other power sources have other costs, some of which are difficult to quantify (the environmental impact of hydroelectric is notoriously hard to quantify).

    But… on the other hand, one can also argue (reasonably) that distribution, then, is not being adequately funded (in my view, it isn't) and that electric rates should, in fact, be considerably higher to pay for maintaining and upgrading the distribution grid system. Not, I might point out, a politically popular point of view…

    Br. Jamie, osb
    Building superintendent/caretaker, 7200 sq. ft. historic house museum with dependencies in New England
  • OffGridICF
    OffGridICF Member Posts: 12

    Battery prices have definitely come down. I bought LiFePO4 battery cells along with battery management systems direct from a reputable seller in China in 2021. At that time, it was a lot less expensive to buy the components and build my own battery bank. Since then, the prices for the same LF280K cells have dropped to less than half of what I paid including free 5 day delivery from the US. These cells are rated to only drop to 80% of their new capacity after 6000 cycles or 10 years, whichever comes first. Now you can get 8000 cycle cells for not much more money but I think they are still 10 year cells. I expect mine to fade due to calendar aging rather than cycle aging but still be useful past 10 years. Heat is probably the biggest factor in battery life for these cells so I try to keep them from getting too hot. In general, they also need to be kept above freezing during charging and heavy discharging to avoid permanent damage.

  • mattmia2
    mattmia2 Member Posts: 13,682
    edited July 18

    the energy you generate is likely being used locally, it doesn't use much of the distribution system and it requires less of the higher up parts of the distribution system be used.

    i'd argue that the condition of the grid is the mismanagement of the utility they gave money that they did not have to their shareholders, it was money that they needed to use to maintain the infrastructure that makes them money. i see it as no different than taking out a loan, giving it to their shareholders then expecting the customers to repay the loan. in my area they have owned the infrastructure for over 100 years. the sate it is in is their responsibility.

    edit: and you complained about my comment about the ai fiction that said tempered glass could crack rather than shatter.

    either your post is going to drift in all sorts of directions or it is going to rocket to page 2 and beyond to never be seen again

    ethicalpaul
  • ethicalpaul
    ethicalpaul Member Posts: 7,786

    1:1 net metering isn’t sustainable. In solar-mature states it has been ended—even California!

    But on the East coast we still have it for now and we get locked in for a number of years.

    My personal opinion is that 1:1 was a very good idea to get systems installed to kick start a business that will be and is a major part of our energy supply.

    I didn’t mind your post, Matt, except I don’t get hail

    NJ Steam Homeowner.
    Free NJ and remote steam advice: https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/new-jersey-steam-help/
    See my sight glass boiler videos: https://bit.ly/3sZW1el

    mattmia2
  • Intplm.
    Intplm. Member Posts: 2,694

    @ethicalpaul What, if anything, does the solar company say about your roof that will hold the panels? Do they take any responsibility for roof repairs? Was the roof assessed before installation? Is there any language in the contract that concerns the roof?

  • ethicalpaul
    ethicalpaul Member Posts: 7,786

    installation hasn’t happened yet. They have been out once so far to look at the support structure of the house frame.

    During the quote process I sent them photos of the attic and the floor plans.

    Since this roof supported 2 layers of shingles for about 30 years and now has one layer, and since it’s built with old growth pine with old, larger dimensions that is very strong I personally am not worried about it.

    Panels weigh like 3 pounds per sq ft. My understanding is that roofs are expected to be able to carry 20 pounds per sq ft of snow without stress.

    NJ Steam Homeowner.
    Free NJ and remote steam advice: https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/new-jersey-steam-help/
    See my sight glass boiler videos: https://bit.ly/3sZW1el

    Intplm.
  • Jamie Hall
    Jamie Hall Member Posts: 26,222

    Without 1;1 net metering, the PV array we installed would not have been cost effective — and we wouldn't have done it.

    For what it's worth, the net return on capital invested in a power company — as it might be your local utility — is around 4% at last count. It's quite possibly one of the worst investments one could make with one's money. Not that I am a financial advisor — far from it — but at that rate of return, the power companies simply cannot attract the investment required to maintain the distribution system, even locally, never mind upgrade.

    Br. Jamie, osb
    Building superintendent/caretaker, 7200 sq. ft. historic house museum with dependencies in New England
  • ethicalpaul
    ethicalpaul Member Posts: 7,786

    My power company seems to maintain its distribution system quite well.

    NJ Steam Homeowner.
    Free NJ and remote steam advice: https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/new-jersey-steam-help/
    See my sight glass boiler videos: https://bit.ly/3sZW1el

  • Jamie Hall
    Jamie Hall Member Posts: 26,222

    So does mine — but they cant replace aging components, nor upgrade it. It's purely reactive, not proactive.

    Br. Jamie, osb
    Building superintendent/caretaker, 7200 sq. ft. historic house museum with dependencies in New England
    Intplm.
  • ethicalpaul
    ethicalpaul Member Posts: 7,786
    edited July 18

    Strange how we are using much more electricity than ever before, yet the lights stay on! I guess they are reacting pretty well! Is it possible they might in fact be doing a little proactive planning and engineering?

    NJ Steam Homeowner.
    Free NJ and remote steam advice: https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/new-jersey-steam-help/
    See my sight glass boiler videos: https://bit.ly/3sZW1el

    Hot_water_fan
  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 16,871

    With how much NJ has grown, all I've seen is more and more transmission lines run etc.

    My power goes out for a short time maybe once every 5 years. I still haven't been able to actually use the NG generator I built 5 years ago.

    All I ever see is JCP&L and PSE&G upgrading and replacing equipment.

    There's always the chance it's not the same everywhere. Also, they just increased everyone's electric bill by 20%, so maybe that's part of it too.

    Single pipe 392sqft system with an EG-40 rated for 325sqft and it's silent and balanced at all times.

    ethicalpaul
  • ethicalpaul
    ethicalpaul Member Posts: 7,786

    ok gang— the permits all cleared (state, utility, and town) and the solar install crew is coming early tomorrow morning so expect some more posts with photos

    NJ Steam Homeowner.
    Free NJ and remote steam advice: https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/new-jersey-steam-help/
    See my sight glass boiler videos: https://bit.ly/3sZW1el

    mattmia2EBEBRATT-Edhot_rodHot_water_fan
  • hot_rod
    hot_rod Member Posts: 25,416

    Here is what 6200W did for my place.

    Screenshot 2025-08-04 at 8.39.34 PM.png Screenshot 2025-08-04 at 8.38.48 PM.png
    Bob "hot rod" Rohr
    trainer for Caleffi NA
    Living the hydronic dream
    ethicalpaul
  • ethicalpaul
    ethicalpaul Member Posts: 7,786

    they got here at 7am. They first had to verify some roof measurements and layout.

    then I helped them locate the first rafter (from the attic) because the “hit the roof with a mallet” method wasn’t working very well because my decking is solid 1915 pine tongue and groove.

    They expect to be done with the installation today

    IMG_4780.jpeg

    NJ Steam Homeowner.
    Free NJ and remote steam advice: https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/new-jersey-steam-help/
    See my sight glass boiler videos: https://bit.ly/3sZW1el

    GGross
  • ethicalpaul
    ethicalpaul Member Posts: 7,786

    10:30am progress

    image.png

    NJ Steam Homeowner.
    Free NJ and remote steam advice: https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/new-jersey-steam-help/
    See my sight glass boiler videos: https://bit.ly/3sZW1el

    ChrisJ
  • PC7060
    PC7060 Member Posts: 1,700
    edited August 5

    Pretty house, like your flower boxes. Keeping the upper level window boxes water have proven to be a challenge for us. 😉

    ethicalpaulChrisJAlan (California Radiant) Forbes
  • ethicalpaul
    ethicalpaul Member Posts: 7,786

    I ran an irrigation line up there which worked pretty well, but even with it, the plants up there get absolutely blasted by the sun all afternoon, so what's up there now is fake plants!

    NJ Steam Homeowner.
    Free NJ and remote steam advice: https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/new-jersey-steam-help/
    See my sight glass boiler videos: https://bit.ly/3sZW1el

    PC7060Alan (California Radiant) Forbes
  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 16,871

    If it's anything like my house, finding the first rafter is almost irrelevant.

    You'd need to measure every one of them inside, make a drawing and use that because there's nothing consistent. For example, my floor joists, some are 23" OC, some are 24, some are 25, 26 etc. They're all over. Kinda, "hurry up good enough" style.

    I guess the actual distance was far less important before plywood and drywall.

    Single pipe 392sqft system with an EG-40 rated for 325sqft and it's silent and balanced at all times.

    PC7060ethicalpaulDCContrarian
  • ethicalpaul
    ethicalpaul Member Posts: 7,786

    yes mine vary between 20” and 22” on center. But the racks can span several rafters so we don’t have to locate each one

    NJ Steam Homeowner.
    Free NJ and remote steam advice: https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/new-jersey-steam-help/
    See my sight glass boiler videos: https://bit.ly/3sZW1el

  • hot_rod
    hot_rod Member Posts: 25,416

    sounds like you may need some seismic restraints back there?

    If there is access to the underside of the roof, we found it easier to miss the rafter and block across two of them and anchor to the block. Finding dead center of a rafter from above is not so easy as you may have discovered.

    This was for thermal collectors, fewer mounts required.

    Bob "hot rod" Rohr
    trainer for Caleffi NA
    Living the hydronic dream
    ethicalpaulAlan (California Radiant) Forbes
  • mattmia2
    mattmia2 Member Posts: 13,682

    Is that thing that looks like roof jacks and planks actually the bottom rail?

  • ethicalpaul
    ethicalpaul Member Posts: 7,786

    I think it is.

    My wife and I felt the 3.0 quake on Saturday night, but there was a 2.5 one today that I didn't notice

    NJ Steam Homeowner.
    Free NJ and remote steam advice: https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/new-jersey-steam-help/
    See my sight glass boiler videos: https://bit.ly/3sZW1el

  • ethicalpaul
    ethicalpaul Member Posts: 7,786

    that’s it! All installed in one day, pretty good! It won’t start operating until it clears inspections. And since my boiler, water heater, and panel upgrade, all performed by me passed, I have a feeling this professional job is gonna be fine.

    without talking prices, this is about the same as a high quality steam boiler install in NJ

    IMG_4790.jpeg IMG_4793.jpeg IMG_4794.jpeg IMG_4795.jpeg

    NJ Steam Homeowner.
    Free NJ and remote steam advice: https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/new-jersey-steam-help/
    See my sight glass boiler videos: https://bit.ly/3sZW1el

    mattmia2OffGridICFAlan (California Radiant) ForbesIntplm.
  • neilc
    neilc Member Posts: 3,032

    you have a venison problem

    known to beat dead horses
    mattmia2ethicalpaul
  • neilc
    neilc Member Posts: 3,032
    known to beat dead horses
  • mattmia2
    mattmia2 Member Posts: 13,682

    those are some funny looking dogs

  • mattmia2
    mattmia2 Member Posts: 13,682
    edited August 6

    is that some sort of uhf or microwave antenna on the tripod near the gable?

  • ethicalpaul
    ethicalpaul Member Posts: 7,786

    NJ Steam Homeowner.
    Free NJ and remote steam advice: https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/new-jersey-steam-help/
    See my sight glass boiler videos: https://bit.ly/3sZW1el

    mattmia2OffGridICF
  • mattmia2
    mattmia2 Member Posts: 13,682
    ethicalpaulPC7060OffGridICF
  • ethicalpaul
    ethicalpaul Member Posts: 7,786

    guess we don’t live in HOAs 😂

    NJ Steam Homeowner.
    Free NJ and remote steam advice: https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/new-jersey-steam-help/
    See my sight glass boiler videos: https://bit.ly/3sZW1el

    mattmia2OffGridICFCLamb
  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 16,871

    If I was in charge of an HOA and someone wanted an armature radio antenna I'd require a decent tower and a reasonably sized yagi. None of this cheesy roof tripod stuff. 😉

    Single pipe 392sqft system with an EG-40 rated for 325sqft and it's silent and balanced at all times.

    DCContrarianethicalpaulPC7060
  • ethicalpaul
    ethicalpaul Member Posts: 7,786

    luckily you’re not I guess because that tripod is holding up a wire antenna not a yagi

    NJ Steam Homeowner.
    Free NJ and remote steam advice: https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/new-jersey-steam-help/
    See my sight glass boiler videos: https://bit.ly/3sZW1el

  • fentonc
    fentonc Member Posts: 307

    @ethicalpaul - re: "About the same price as a boiler install" - I'm over in NY, but probably not too far, and my 5KW array (after incentives) was a little cheaper than the boiler I had installed the year before. The array has continued to average around 500 kwh/month for the last 7 years (+/- 10% based on weather), which, as electricity prices have come close to doubling in the last 7 years, has had a substantially better financial return than my boiler.