"Yelp"/ angi list for contractors.

sounds like maybe letting the credit bureaus handle that might be the way to go, if you develop your own list it seems like it would open you up to a lot of liability

i'm sure newspaper ads are really cheap now…

@The Steam Whisperer I have a feeling that your idea may be against the law or at least an infringement on someone's right to privacy. I am not sure that it is a viable service that a business can just post Customer John Doe  does not pay their bill.  Unless you get the customer’s permission beforehand.  

I would become a member of a private online service, not open to the general public, that may post this information similar to the way a credit bureau offers the credit score for individuals who provide their SS number and DOB.  Anytime you apply for a credit card or a bank loan, the fine print says that they can report your payment history to any credit bureau that the financial institution has an agreement with.   You gave permission when you signed the application.

The trick is to assemble a “Bureau of Trade Customers” by having all tradesmen have that fine print in their invoices where it states that any customers dealings with tradesmen of any type that subscribe to the “Bureau of Trade Customers” that will give permission to the contractor to post their experience with said customer for all other trades to look up and make a decision if they want to deal with that customer.   Each customer would be rated with a “Trade Score” just like a “Credit Score” 

So every address that has any type of trade work on the property, from original construction including foundations and structures, to masons, to framers and roofers, to electricians, plumbers and mechanicals.  For the most part those first owners (the developers) would get a score based on how the original construction was handled. If the developer ends up not paying and files bankruptcy the personal information of the individual(s) would be part of the public record and you can avoid future develop[ers with that(those) individual(s) as named owners.   

Each proceeding owner would also be rated along with an equipment rating (as to weather or not the systems were designed or operate properly) so as a prospective contractor you can know what you are getting into. Customer rates poorly or equipment rates poorly.

Just a few ramblings from an old man in a wheelchair

It costs peanuts to put mechanics liens on houses. Might not get your money today, but you may a few years down the road.

Remember one thing, Steam Whisperer, criminals, shysters & grifters have the upper hand and more rights than we do. Mad Dog

When a person, business, Corporation or municipality have a problem sending you a deposit to secure the job & lock in a date, THAT'S THE RED FLAG.....They're already playing you. Mad Dog

We have trouble sending you a check not because we are trying to scam you but because we are an enormous bureaucracy with several redundant processes that the have to happen sequentially and different divisions fighting for control. In fact people still get paid when I say they did a terrible job, don't pay them until they fix it.

I’m semi curious, these dead beat people- what % of the time are you dealing with them face to face? I have a tendency to ramp up more up front when all my feelings aren’t lining up. And our payment terms are “upon completion, same day please. A paid invoice will be emailed to you the following business day”

I feel like this- if you expect to be paid immediately and you have conveyed that sentiment, good things happen. If they dodge your communication efforts with payment, you bolt.

We recently did a dinky $900 job. Vernal quote ( I hate writing paper for tiny jobs). The communication wasn’t stellar. The guy stops by our office a week later and we confirm the price I told him when I was at his house. I ask him “can we get a check when we are done?”. He gives me a blank look. It was semi awkward (not for me, I almost enjoy asking for money). The son jumps in a few days later. The son is a fellow small business owner, bigger than my little operation. Even the son isn’t following my lead for how the payment situation works. I’m like “wow “ I need to drop a hammer or something. I email the son stating: “please drop off a check for $900 and we will be there within 5 days to do the job. About 4 hours later the father walks in with a check.

We all have things we excel at and things we blow at. I sure wish I was excellent at everything. My son helped me in the office a few summers ago. My son tried the tools in previous summers, not super good. His management skills were 100 times better than mine. It was humbling. I suspect some of us trades dudes aren’t super good with tracking down money and avoiding pitfalls. My son now has a big boy job with his own office at a well known software company in the Boston burbs.

For years- I never bothered asking for money as a deposit. Then one day I had an epiphany- a Duh moment. The deposit is simply a buy in. At times I ignore my rule but the payments are 💯 %. (Now that I type that…… ). If I had to order high dollar or special order stuff then of course my attitude would shift a little.

But getting the final payment is where we survive.

I’m a small time landlord as well. Batting 1000, haven’t yet lost one months rent (obviously turnover there are gaps in income). I’m just $3000 out on lawyers fees; I had to ask someone to pack their stuff a couple years ago. Oh- and I think I paid $2500 in a cash for keys situation (toddler was driving the tenants below a little nutty). I’d say $5500 is a victory (landlording for 15 years. 10 units).

Edit - I did not mean to indicate we don’t have some old receivables. But it’s so low, it’s a blip.

I’d say $5500 is a victory (landlording for 15 years. 10 units).

It's a victory beyond your wildest imagination of what typically goes on out there. I also had 10 units at one time. The victories were limited to about three! Every single one of them never understood what a vacuum cleaner is and how to use it.

I could tell you stories for days.

We were a sub for a mechanical and sold him a 15,000 gallon oil tank, a remote tank gauge, fill cap vent cap and we had the job of setting the tank and painting it when it was in place. That's the way it was done in the old days. We had been doing jobs for this mechanical for years.

All of a sudden he is low bidder on every job in town. Should have been a red flag. His claim to fame was he went to school with Ted Kennedy.

This tank job was for Bell Telephone. He went bankrupt in the middle of the job. He was low bidding all these jobs to get the money to pay for the last job. In the end we had to put a lien on the building and Bell had to pay us for the tank and install even though they could prove they paid the mechanical for it.

@Mad Dog_2 is right especially at the start if they act funny about a deposit or money up front or signing paperwork just run away. It's not worth it for what you profit might make.

The most uncomfortable part of running a Plumbing & Heating business is discussing $$ & payments. Get it out of the way as fast as possible ...a ball park range is better than nothing. This, especially holds true with relatives, friends & people you know. Get it out of the way and be 100% clear, cogent & concise.

If there's any waffling or trifling, it's better you both know BEFORE a piece of pipe is purchased or installed. Worst case, we shake hands and go our separate ways. Mad Dog

And…if you ARE giving someone a break, you need to let them know, very politely, but clearly. Its very important going foward on a job or project. I learned that watching a very wise Old Timer once. Mad Dog

Can't believe some people. 😕

Last time I had a big job (as a customer) we a new custom duct system for my house. After finding a real full service tinner + mechanical company to do the work, I paid a deposit and then we split up the job into monthly payouts ( the apprentice was there pretty much all summer making ducts on the brake).

Worked out best for everyone as he had cashflow and I didn't get one wallop at the end of the gig.

Most of the gang has moved on to commercial only, but even after 25 years I still hire the dad when I need some quick service.

Are credit cards not the norm?

So many different methods and styles to run a small business.

Does anyone remember Harley-Davidson back in the early days? I'm not a Harley guy (I do ride some MX), but in the early 80s we had a shop here in my little town. It was tiny and unimpressive. Then they went full on 'retail', I suppose some folks at the top got very wealthy during the transition.

Many folks believe that regulation will eventually squeeze out the mom and pop, and the big hitters will take it all over. And they will gladly take your CC for payment, no added fees.

Moral to the story… Don't mess with Ed! 😼

Yours, Larry

There was a prevailing wage job I did for the City of San Francisco years ago. It was some radiant heating for a daycare center and the general contractor was always late in paying progress payments. We finished the job and it was signed off by the inspector, but the GC wouldn't pay. I think he came up short. I lost patience and drove to the job, pulled the relays out of the zone valve control and told the director they lost their heat because the GC hadn't paid me my final payment.

I got a call the next morning that they were sending the cops over to arrest me unless I reinstated the heating system and, of course, I did. They must have lit a fire under the GC because I got a check the next week.

Now that I only do service and repair work, I most always get paid by the owner….when the job is done and they are grateful. For the few times I do work for a GC, it's like pulling teeth and I vow never to do it again.