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Heat will Not Turn Off

Mac18
Mac18 Member Posts: 16

Thermo Pride 2 stage warm air furnace- 10 years old, With Honeywell HZ311 zone control

Worked fine all winter.

The other day heat kicked in, even thou set point was well below room temp.

Would not turn off with thermostats – I removed the stats and still comes on as soon as power is applied.

I inspected wiring as best I could all looks normal, no work was done on furce recently.

Is there a way to verify (good/bad) control board without replacing.

Thank you for any help

Comments

  • pecmsg
    pecmsg Member Posts: 6,096

    Did you pull the LV control wire from the unit?

  • Jamie Hall
    Jamie Hall Member Posts: 26,014

    One step at a time. Heat continues with thermostats "off"? OK. Remove thermostats from wall and disconnect. Heat stops? Bad thermostat. Heat continues? Go to other end of thermostat wires at control, and disconnect BOTH wires (or all three (note where they go). Heat stops? Bad wires. Heat continues? Now you can start investigating the control.

    Br. Jamie, osb
    Building superintendent/caretaker, 7200 sq. ft. historic house museum with dependencies in New England
    ethicalpaul
  • EdTheHeaterMan
    EdTheHeaterMan Member Posts: 10,492

    Start at the beginning. which is actually the end of the sequence of operation.

    The system is more than just one thermostat connected to one oil burner control. We need the full picture to determine where the problem is located.

    1. Do you have a zone control system of some type that uses more than one thermostat?
    2. Is the (exhaust) vent pipe connected to a chimney?
    3. Is the (exhaust) vent pipe connected to a power vent?
    4. Are you comfortable checking line voltage (120 VAC) and low voltagev (24 Volt) electrical circuits?
    5. Do you have access to a multi-meter that can verify Voltage at different locations

    If you can answer Yes to 4 of these questions, then we can help you here.

    If you do not understand the terms used in these questions, then you should shut off the emergency switch (or service switch) to shut the burner off, then call for professional help.

    Edward Young Retired

    After you make that expensive repair and you still have the same problem, What will you check next?

  • Mac18
    Mac18 Member Posts: 16

    @pecmsg - I'm not sure which wire that is.

    Note: I do have the schematic and diagram/layout for the circuit board.

    Thanks

    @Jamie Hall As I mentioned on my OP, I pulled the tstats (both). I did not disconnect wires at other end (I will try that), but I disconnected the power from the zone control unit mentioned above.

    Thanks

    @EdTheHeaterMan

    1. Yes, on my original post - Honeywell HZ311 - it's a 3 zone unit, I'm only using 2 zones
    2. Vent pipe is standalone SELKIRK stainless insulate chimney
    3. No power vent
    4. I'm well versed in electrical and electronic circuits. I have the schematic and layout for he control board.
    5. Yes

    Thanks

  • EdTheHeaterMan
    EdTheHeaterMan Member Posts: 10,492
    edited May 12

    Great. then see if you remove the wire from the W terminal on the Thermopride thermostat connection, the burner should stop.

    If yes then the zone system is the source of the problem. If the burner continues to operate , then the problem is in the Thermopride

    Screenshot 2025-05-12 at 3.45.47 PM.png

    Edward Young Retired

    After you make that expensive repair and you still have the same problem, What will you check next?

  • Mac18
    Mac18 Member Posts: 16

    Here is the manual - unit is OH6FX072DV4

    https://drive.google.com/file/d/1sq9ylXycfcLjBUcICUL8X99t75AYhnrf/view

    Thanks for all your help

  • pecmsg
    pecmsg Member Posts: 6,096

    Page 3

    Pull the "W" wire off the terminal.

  • Mac18
    Mac18 Member Posts: 16

    Ok- I pulled "W" wire off terminal P1 on page 8 - the furnace still fires when I turn the power on.

    Thanks

  • mattmia2
    mattmia2 Member Posts: 12,809

    this is oil, right?

  • Mac18
    Mac18 Member Posts: 16

    Yes - and it looks like removing the white wire eliminates the zone controller as the issue.

  • mattmia2
    mattmia2 Member Posts: 12,809

    Does it connect to the primary control on the oil burner? The relay in the primary control might be welded shut and it won't shut down with the thermostat or any safety that is on the low voltage side

  • pecmsg
    pecmsg Member Posts: 6,096
    mattmia2
  • Mac18
    Mac18 Member Posts: 16

    Yes "W" is white white wire, runs from zone controller to furnace control board.

    See Ed's picture above of the zone controller.

  • Mac18
    Mac18 Member Posts: 16

    Can the relay be identified and tested - there is a schematic link above.

  • mattmia2
    mattmia2 Member Posts: 12,809

    Is there a schematic of the furnace inside the blower door or somewhere else? Can you take a picture of it? Usually there is a low voltage control to the primary control (the control on the oil burner itself) but not sure how it does 2 stage, could be 2 low voltage controls to the primary control for high and low.

  • Mac18
    Mac18 Member Posts: 16

    Schematic is here, page 7 - I posted it above

    Oil Furnace with ECM Blower Option (OH6FA, OH8FA OD6, OL6, OH6FX).pdf

  • HVACNUT
    HVACNUT Member Posts: 6,773

    If disconnecting W on the furnace control board doesn't do it, TT on the burner primary goes through 3 and 6 at the 9 pin molex. If you remove one wire from TT at the primary, the burner should stop. From there, with the power off, you can back track and see what's closed using continuity.

  • mattmia2
    mattmia2 Member Posts: 12,809

    If there is a w2 connection to the control board you need to disconnect both w and w2.

    It looks like there are low energy connections to the oil burner not shows on that schematic for the heat call and low/high selection.

  • Mac18
    Mac18 Member Posts: 16

    Not sure what TT is but there is no wire on W2.

    Based on what we're seeing, in your opinion, could it be anything other than the control board on the furnace.

  • HVACNUT
    HVACNUT Member Posts: 6,773

    TT is on the burner primary control. The schematic shows 2 Yellow wires.

  • EdTheHeaterMan
    EdTheHeaterMan Member Posts: 10,492
    edited May 13

    Here is the diagram of the two yellow wires from the 9 pin plug to the Primary control.

    Screenshot 2025-05-12 at 7.40.21 PM.png

    Turn off power. Remove the yellow wires from the primary control screw terminals. Then power up the furnace…. Burner stops?

    Yes = Bad fan timer control

    NO = Bad primary control

    Edward Young Retired

    After you make that expensive repair and you still have the same problem, What will you check next?

  • mattmia2
    mattmia2 Member Posts: 12,809

    I think it is the 2 stage version which doesn't show the 2 stage wiring to the burner.

  • EdTheHeaterMan
    EdTheHeaterMan Member Posts: 10,492

    That will not matter on this set up. The HZ311 is a zone control panel for one stage heat and one stage cool, so there will be no wire from W2 on the Thermopride to the HZ311. There is no place to put the W2 wire on the zone control panel.

    By removing the wire from W terminal on the HZ311 they have eliminated the Zone control from being the problem. The burner keeps operating because of something inside the Thermopride.

    Next step for @Mac18 is to take a picture of the circuit board inside the Thermopride and post it here for us to see what is going on in there. Can you do that Mac the Knife?

    Edward Young Retired

    After you make that expensive repair and you still have the same problem, What will you check next?

  • Mac18
    Mac18 Member Posts: 16

    Here is an image - please let me know if you need it zoomed more or anything else.

    Thanks

  • EdTheHeaterMan
    EdTheHeaterMan Member Posts: 10,492

    I may see a problem. need to do more research.

    Screenshot 2025-05-12 at 9.53.14 PM.png

    Can you verify the yellow wire with the blue connector on the R terminal is going to 9 pin plug? And if so which number on the 9 pin plug, 3 or 6?

    Edward Young Retired

    After you make that expensive repair and you still have the same problem, What will you check next?

  • EdTheHeaterMan
    EdTheHeaterMan Member Posts: 10,492

    Do you have the Riello Oil Burner?

    Edward Young Retired

    After you make that expensive repair and you still have the same problem, What will you check next?

  • EdTheHeaterMan
    EdTheHeaterMan Member Posts: 10,492
    edited May 13

    I think you have the Riello Oil Burner and this is your diagram

    Screenshot 2025-05-12 at 10.04.01 PM.png

    Remove the Yellow wire yellow wire with the red connector on the C terminal of the Thermopride control. That should stop the oil burner.

    Screenshot 2025-05-12 at 9.53.14 PM.png

    If that stops the oil burner, then the Thermopride control board is bas and needs to be replaced.

    If the burner continues to run then the small black relay is bad and needs to be replaced.

    (unless the wires connected to the Riello burner are not connected properly. That would be another picture needed with the burner cover removed.

    Edward Young Retired

    After you make that expensive repair and you still have the same problem, What will you check next?

  • EdTheHeaterMan
    EdTheHeaterMan Member Posts: 10,492

    Here are the camera angles I need to look at the Riello Oil Burner wiring with the over off and the Gray control box removed.

    Screenshot 2025-05-12 at 10.33.43 PM.png

    One from strait on… almost like this photo. just a little to the left. And one form above to see if the Riello is properly configured.

    Edward Young Retired

    After you make that expensive repair and you still have the same problem, What will you check next?

  • Mac18
    Mac18 Member Posts: 16

    I do have a Riello Burner.

    Ok- I will remove the cover tomorrow and provide photos (getting a bit late, don’t want to screw anything up)

    I will also verify connections of the yellow wire with blue terminal.

    Thank you much

    Note: heat came on unprompted and no wiring changes were made since installation.

    EdTheHeaterMan
  • HVACNUT
    HVACNUT Member Posts: 6,773

    Good catch with the Riello @EdTheHeaterMan. I was never good at playing 20 Questions. Or charades.

    EdTheHeaterMan
  • Mac18
    Mac18 Member Posts: 16

    This morning I started by tapping the relay a couple of times before turning on the power.

    Turn the power on and everything appears to be working normal.

    Only thing is, the blower appears to be running longer after heat goes off, beyond the purge cycle.

    I could be wrong but I thought before, the blower went off as soon as the HZ311 relay clicked and purge light went out.

  • Mac18
    Mac18 Member Posts: 16

    I did another heat run - heat comes on with thermostat call, and shuts off when temp is reached. Heat LED goes goes off for the zone on the HZ311 and purge LED comes, and stays on for 2 minutes, until relay clicks, LED goes off. Blower stays running for 4 additional minutes then goes off. I think this is normal.

    EdTheHeaterMan
  • EdTheHeaterMan
    EdTheHeaterMan Member Posts: 10,492

    Tapping of that black relay tells you that the relay got stuck. That may happen again. I would order a replacement relay and have it on hand for the future.

    As far as the blower operating for 4 minutes after the call for heat from the zone control is satisfied, That can be adjusted. Do you get uncomfortable cold air (during heat season) at the end of each cycle, then you need ot adjust the dip switches on the Thermopride Fan circuit board.

    Screenshot 2025-05-13 at 10.18.09 AM.png

    From the manual. It appears that switch 3 is in the on position and switch is in the off position. if you don't have a problem with comfort, then leave it alone. (If it ain't broke… Don't fix it)

    Edward Young Retired

    After you make that expensive repair and you still have the same problem, What will you check next?

  • Mac18
    Mac18 Member Posts: 16

    I will pickup another relay and maybe replace it anyway. I'm good with the run time of the blower after the heat is off. I did adjust the delay once, but in the begining of the heat cycle, blower was coming on too soon and pushing cold air.

    I want to thank you so much for the extra help and diagrams.

    Thanks to everyone here for all the help, maybe I can help someone in the future with what I've learned here.

    Lots of talent on this forum, I'll keep reading…………

    EdTheHeaterMan
  • mattmia2
    mattmia2 Member Posts: 12,809

    Where is that relay in relation to the safety chain of the furnace? If the any safeties control that relay rather than the line voltage power to the burner, you want to make sure that the relay is properly functioning otherwise it could cause a fire if it prevents a safety from stopping the burner.

  • Mac18
    Mac18 Member Posts: 16

    Well, there is a safety switch above the furnace that looks like a "button". That's been there since the original furnace was installed. I'm not sure if that's what your referencing.

  • EdTheHeaterMan
    EdTheHeaterMan Member Posts: 10,492
    edited May 13

    mattmia, I believe that the L1 from the field supplied power switch goes to the circuit board at S1 on the right had side of the board. From ther it feeds several locations on the board including #1 on the 9 pin connector that goes to all the high limits in series on the furnace before returning to #4 on the 9 pin connector. From there #4 feeds a signal to the onboard software that the limit switches are closed and therefore the #2 pin on the 9 pin connector is powered. #2 on the 9 pin connector eventually connects to one of the orange wires that go to that relay in question, and then return to ultimately connect to the oil burner #5 terminal also labeled L1. Following that path, the 120 VAC must go thru the High Limit(s) before it gets to the orange wires that feed the burner thru the relay that was defective.

    That relay getting stuck closed still have the high limit(s) in the series circuit. I know this because that is how the limits are configured when the Beckett burner is used on that Thermopride and the limits are the same on that system. So the limits are where they should be regardless of the burner brand used.

    Edward Young Retired

    After you make that expensive repair and you still have the same problem, What will you check next?

    mattmia2