Is this a house trap?
Comments
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The trap in the yard will be as deep and deeper than the basement floor, since the clean out pic you posted shows the sewer pipe under the floor.
I would think a camera would go through that yard trap, if in fact it is a yard trap?
It could be another clean out like you have in the basement.
Local plumbers or drain cleaners should know what is typical in your neighborhood
If the line is getting roots, I would think they would dig from the building to the sewer main and replace the entire line?
Bob "hot rod" Rohr
trainer for Caleffi NA
Living the hydronic dream
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though it is pretty common to stop at the street if there are no roots in that part because opening up the street to get to the main is far more expensive.
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I always sharpen crab claw cutters with a dremel before I send them through . No sweat dealing with roots with a razor sharp cutter.
Trying to squeeze the best out of a Weil-McLain JB-5 running a 1912 1 pipe system.
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Roots typically enter the piping at the connections regardless if it is clay, cast, transite, Orangeberg, PVC, etc. Although cast iron tends to corrode away along the bottom portion in some conditions. So if the same pipe is used to the main, I think I would replace the entire line, not just the part on your property.
I would check with Public Works, they often have maps and would know who is responsibility for the street cut, if needed, would be.
In some towns the city handles the street work, in some areas only bonded excavators approved by the city can do the cut, in others you post a bond to cut the street. So it varies from town to town.
Generally speaking a local plumber or sewer expert would know the requirements in your area. It may not be a job for a DIY or handyman :)
Clean it out, run a camera and you will see the problem areas, then make a decision.
Bob "hot rod" Rohr
trainer for Caleffi NA
Living the hydronic dream
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Roots that enter poured lead bell & spigot joints, were usually never caulked in with an inside & outside caulking iron. I've seen this many times over the years. My mom's house had trees & bushes out front from when it was built after WII. It was built by our State Senator and he got a first class plumbing system.
We were only the third owners, the house never had root infiltration or a main drain stoppage. All the joints in the basement were easy to see they were caulked after the pour with both inside & outside irons and trimmed neatly.
Before we sold the family home, I pulled out the 550 oil tank in the front lawn & had a chance to examine several poured lead joints. All caulked inside & outside irons.
Mad Dog
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So are camera and jets able to go through traps or do they need to be removed and replaced with straight lines?
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Yes, they are designed to do exactly that, you need a plumber that does trenchless residential sewer rehabilitation work as well as plumbing to look at this and go from there.
It may require pipe bursting to install a new lateral sewer line if the trees and stumps cannot be removed.
I am sure that many members of the forum can recommend a contractor/plumber in your area to do this for you or you can contact the folks at Trenchless Magazine and ask for a few copies of Trenchless Magazine to find a contractor in your area.
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They want to run the camera/hydro jet before they take on the big job.
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If there's no seepage, there's nothing to attract the roots. They just go to where the "fertilizer " is. A worked caulked joint doesn't seep, so there you go.
That's why the old mortared joins with clay pipe sucked: the "fertilizer " would make the joint damp and the roots would get to work.
I wonder if the polymer seals on the new vitreous clay are really water tight.
Trying to squeeze the best out of a Weil-McLain JB-5 running a 1912 1 pipe system.1 -
Yeah, I have leakage. You can tell from the roots in the picture.
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Please find a plumber that can either reline your existing piping with a Ultra Violet/or steam cured liner or a pipe burster that will clear out the entire pipe to the street with a pipe cleaner using a chain head or cutter and then wash it clear and then burst the old pipe while pulling/pushing the pipe burster through and pulling in the new pipe top replace the old one.
Relining an existing pipe is possible if it is in good condition but installing new piping while bursting the old pipe is better when dealing with tree roots as it will be one solid pipe with no joints to allow root infiltration and exfiltration of grey wastewater into the surround soils.
Pipe bursting to install new pipe can be easily done it just takes time to do it properly.
Relining the existing pipe can be done as long as the existing pipe has not collapsed.
If cutting the trees down and replacing the pipe with new pipe is not an option, then relining or pipe bursting are the only viable options as the roots have weakened the clay pipe.
Relining the existing pipe may not be possible if the pipe joints are broken and the pipe is not smooth.
The pipe contractor will determine which method is the correct method for your needs after they push a camera through the pipe clean the pipe if possible and then reinspect it for damage and then pressure wash it to clean it to reline it or by doing so determine that a complete replacement with new pipe using a pipe burster is the only real option for your existing conditions if the pipe is severely compromised/damaged which is quite often the case with root infiltration.
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New pictures, still doesn't look like a trap.
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Cutting out a trap in another house too.
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no, no one thought that was a trap. if there is a house trap it is somewhere else.
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The 2 plumbers that came out said it was a single trap.
This is the only other opening in the basement.
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Not impressed with your plumbers!
The second shot is more likely the trap. Open it and what do you see?
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I'll take a photo of it today. Did you see the single trap?
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Have you contacted a plumber that does sewer pipe bursting/sewer pipe relining?????
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Two local companies were called, 2nd gen. Plumbing and Slades Plumbing. I guess they both specialize in snaking sewer lines.
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If that is the vent or Cleanout were are seeing in your photo, I'd like to see the belly of the trap that would be attached to it. From what we can see, you just may be a clean out fitting, not a "Running Trap with single Vent"(Charlotte Pipe).
Its common to see them used where a yard or storm drain tie in to a soil or Sanitary pipe to keep odors out. Any chance you can excavate a little lower to expose the connection? Mad Dog
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Often times, sewer & drain contractors have very limited plumbing expertise. People often refer to them interchangeably as "plumbers," but most are just expert at clearing stoppages. Mad Dog
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Yes, I'll be digging the pipe out more in the next day or two. Wanted to wait untilnthe dirt dried up a bit. It also seems to be some copper color container in the bottom right of the cutout. Any idea what that is?
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I've never seen a Single Clean Out Running Trap with a Wye fitting, but that doesn't mean it's not possible. I'd be very surprised if that's The Building House Trap under there. Mad Dog
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where is the water service in relation to that? could be just some debris they used to hold the pipe in place while they were building it.
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Do yourself the favor of calling one of these two pipe bursting/relining companies and stop doing what your doing as you are just going in circles.
Trenchless today LLC 866-926-2329
—————————————————————-Maxwell Plumb Mechanical 718-509-6398
——————————————————————Long Island Sewer and Main
Nassau 516-604-2651
Suffolk 631-407-2873
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Oh, this guy is on Long Island??? Citywide Sewer & Drain in Carle Place....Very professional, very competent & knowledgeable. In business close to 75 years. That's who I rec'd all the time. Mad Dog
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NEw pictures
Water runs to the back cleanout. Looks like the is just an extra cleanout and the pipes join.
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That's what we were saying. Once again, the sewer & drain company SHOULD know this. What's the next step? Mad Dog
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Shades of the Coors brewery in Golden, Colorado! You have broken clay tile under to the cast iron pipe.
Please call someone that can inspect, clean and then reline or pipe burst and push new pipe into the home in one job.
You should also have the home tested for radon as well.
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That's the next step, but they are telling me they won't do it if I don't remove the trap. That's why I'm trying to remove the trap. I guess I have some more digging to do. Or do you think there isn't a trap?
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Thats just sounds wrong!
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Please contact one of the three folks that Matt and I mentioned and do not ask the other people to come back as removing that Y or trap is not required. If the three folks mentioned are not in your area please list your county and we/I will find a company that can do this for you.
Please purchase a radon test kit ASAP.
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With all they currently have going on, why do you want them to do a radon test?
Even if it is a concern, with the dirt that saturated with water radon levels would likely be low especially if that's clay.
I wouldn't open up another can of worms until the problem at hand is sorted my self.
Single pipe 392sqft system with an EG-40 rated for 325sqft and it's silent and balanced at all times.
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He opened up the concrete when he did not have to.
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Very true.
But it's open to soaking wet mud. That doesn't pass gas too well.
Dried up and cracked clay, or sand does.
Hopefully, he's going to listen to you or Mad Dog and call someone else. I thought a vent pipe out in the yard was mentioned, wouldn't that be where a trap would be located under these conditions? I understand it shouldn't need to be removed, but, since he's digging……..
Single pipe 392sqft system with an EG-40 rated for 325sqft and it's silent and balanced at all times.
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It has been a very long time since I lived in a small city with sanitary sewers, force mains and pump stations, but from what I remember of above ground vent pipes with the round caps; they allow the flow of sewage or grey water from a residence or business to travel quickly to a gravity sanitary sewer without causing a vacuum and losing water in a P trap and allowing methane to migrate back into a home or business.
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risers to the surface are usually cleanouts to clean the line without dragging a machine in the basement or abandoned downspout connections.
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