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Manufacturer specs- mandatory or recommended?

Kjmass1
Kjmass1 Member Posts: 284

Recently had a EG-40 installed (https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1840364#Comment_1840364), and someone had mentioned that the manual states the riser should be 2" to a 2.5" header, my install is 2" throughout. The Hartford loop wye from the top of the fitting is 3.25" below the white waterline on my gauge, which some thought was low. Manual states 2". This states (https://heatinghelp.com/systems-help-center/a-hartford-loop-q-and-a/) "about 2" below lowest waterline", so is that because I have an automatic fill, it can go a bit lower?

Regardless, are these concerns worth bringing up to the installer, or will cause warranty issues down the line? I'm certainly happy with the install and now I've got it all insulated, so curious if I need to address any of this…but it wasn't cheap, and I want it done right.

Comments

  • pecmsg
    pecmsg Member Posts: 5,724
    edited February 5

    Why do the manufacturers put it in writing if there not to be followed.

    The installer is wrong!


    Hope you put it on a Credit Card, I’d dispute the charges until it’s corrected.

    mattmia2
  • Kjmass1
    Kjmass1 Member Posts: 284

    "Recommended minimum" is how it's written in the manual. Not exactly saying required.

  • pecmsg
    pecmsg Member Posts: 5,724

    like you said “Recommended Minimum “

    Did they follow that?

    NO

  • mattmia2
    mattmia2 Member Posts: 11,780

    You can let @New England SteamWorks answer that himself but i think the manual has some language that allows other industry accepted methods. Because it has the drop header to help the steam and water separate over the long path and turns the 2" is very likely fine for the header.

    Your returns are above the water line anyhow until they get to the boiler so the only place that the water could leak out of the boiler is at the piping near the boiler. The lower connection to the hartford loop just means there is a small amount more piping that could leak and allow the water to run out of the boiler. The lwco ("safegard") is there to stop the boiler from firing if the water gets low anyhow so on modern automatically fired boilers the hartford loop is redundancy.

    delcrossvMad Dog_2GGross
  • delcrossv
    delcrossv Member Posts: 1,919
    Trying to squeeze the best out of a Weil-McLain JB-5 running a 1912 1 pipe system.
  • Kjmass1
    Kjmass1 Member Posts: 284

    appreciate the info, I’m happy with the performance, no issues there.

    Mad Dog_2
  • delcrossv
    delcrossv Member Posts: 1,919
    Trying to squeeze the best out of a Weil-McLain JB-5 running a 1912 1 pipe system.
    Mad Dog_2
  • EdTheHeaterMan
    EdTheHeaterMan Member Posts: 10,170

    OK here is the scoop on Minimum Recommended Pipe Size. You have a diagram that shows that you only need one riser that is 2-1/2" diameter that transitions with a 90° elbow into a 2-1/2" header. The end of the header then transitions into a 1-1/2" equalizer drop where the wet returns connects via a Wye fitting or a short nipple before it connects to the boiler return opening at the bottom. That Wye fitting has a minimum 2" below the water line specification.

    Since your contractor did a double 2" riser, that is more that the minimum requirement. The Wye fitting is at 3" below the water line, so that is more than the minimum requirement. the fact that you have a drop header will better facilitate dry steam to the system. the only shortcoming I can see is the short section of Header where it is common to both the double boiler risers and the double system risers may have an increased velocity that may cause some water to find its way into the steam mains. Only time will tell if that actually is a problem. After the system is skimmed and the water conditioned for pH, I doubt that you will have any problem.

    If at all possible, I would hold back $500.00 from the final payment (if that is possible) to insure that the system operates properly without major banging noise. (some expansion noise is going to happen on any heating system) If you get major banging that can not otherwise be explained that the header should be increased to 2-1/2" but I don't see that being a problem.

    Otherwise you have an excellent system. Give it a month to see if there are any problems that skimming does not solve. Follow @ethicalpaul and his YouTube videos for proper boiler care of your new system.

    Edward Young Retired

    After you make that expensive repair and you still have the same problem, What will you check next?

    Mad Dog_2ethicalpaulGGross
  • EBEBRATT-Ed
    EBEBRATT-Ed Member Posts: 17,233

    With (2) 2" risers instead of (1) 2 1/2" you have about 28% more riser capacity than required. With the height of the oversized risers (they must be 35-40") I doubt you will get any water in the header

    dabrakeman
  • Mad Dog_2
    Mad Dog_2 Member Posts: 7,741

    The guy did a fantastic job. Who did the insulation? Perfecto! The manufacturers specs are minimum standards for reliable performance. I'm a big believer in individuality, artistry & freedom of expression. As Ed said, he used both tappings. You got a very nice job! Mad Dog

    Long Beach EdIronmandelcrossv
  • Matt_67
    Matt_67 Member Posts: 304

    I would also note the series 4 boiler manual included the 2” header as a recommended minimum. It’s highly unlikely you’ll have issues with that system.

  • Long Beach Ed
    Long Beach Ed Member Posts: 1,638

    Nobody mentioned the Vaporstat and the union on it. A very nicely piped boiler.

    mattmia2delcrossv
  • Kjmass1
    Kjmass1 Member Posts: 284

    Thanks everyone, I’m happy with it, just wanted another honest opinion. They did a great job, DIY insulation by myself. Not difficult at all.

    Sight glass has been clear, I’ve skimmed maybe 6-7 times over the last 45 days or so. Silent system.

    I’ve yet to see the water counter tick yet, I don’t think I’ve been losing any water to be honest. It’s always right at the white water line.

    Previous boiler I was losing an inch almost every day or two.

  • Kjmass1
    Kjmass1 Member Posts: 284

    Thanks for all the explanation, makes sense to me. So banging at all. It was installed around Christmas and gone through some nice cold temps, has yet to make any pressure even with a setback from vacation. I think I could’ve gotten by with a EG35. Most I’ve seen it run is 32m on/29m off at 9F.

  • Kjmass1
    Kjmass1 Member Posts: 284

    Thanks for all the explanation, makes sense to me. So banging at all. It was installed around Christmas and gone through some nice cold temps, has yet to make any pressure even with a setback from vacation. I think I could’ve gotten by with a EG35. Most I’ve seen it run is 32m on/29m off at 9F.

  • EdTheHeaterMan
    EdTheHeaterMan Member Posts: 10,170
    edited February 6

    Perhaps a EG 35 may have worked, but you really need to match the boiler to the connected radiation EDR. I think your contractor nailed it. No noise, no cycling on the pressure limit, home is comfortable …EXCELLENT!!! Your home has too. much radiator. I bet it has something to do with the Spanish Flu. https://www.heatinghelp.com/systems-help-center/boiler-sizing/ This is one of my favorite @DanHolohan stories.

    Edward Young Retired

    After you make that expensive repair and you still have the same problem, What will you check next?

  • mattmia2
    mattmia2 Member Posts: 11,780

    @New England SteamWorks

    Oh, the old one was leaking above the water line. That was my question when I saw the other post, why are you replacing the old one, it was old but looked to be in decent condition.