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Drop header

GW
GW Member Posts: 4,816

I’m gonna cut some long risers, maybe 40 inches

seeking opinion-


how many inches are you dropping, don’t know what’s cool these days. I was thinking two 6 inch nips with a union in the middle.

then I’ll make the 2 1/2 inch header

Gary Wilson
Wilson Services, Inc
Northampton, MA
gary@wilsonph.com
«1

Comments

  • ethicalpaul
    ethicalpaul Member Posts: 6,433

    It doesn't matter. If you pipe it with the right size and number of pipes (and I know you will), and you skim the boiler (I know you will), the drop header is only there to make things easier to fit together. There will be no water in it.

    NJ Steam Homeowner.
    Free NJ and remote steam advice: https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/new-jersey-steam-help/
    See my sight glass boiler videos: https://bit.ly/3sZW1el

    GWMad Dog_2
  • Long Beach Ed
    Long Beach Ed Member Posts: 1,296
    edited November 13

    … and why would you install a dropped header when you have all that space above the boiler? Extra pipe and fittings laying around?

    GW
  • GW
    GW Member Posts: 4,816

    Thanks all, I'm just trying to be cool. 😊

    Ed, the last boiler install was super lame, I want to send the driest steam possible.

    Gary Wilson
    Wilson Services, Inc
    Northampton, MA
    gary@wilsonph.com
    Mad Dog_2PC7060
  • pecmsg
    pecmsg Member Posts: 5,247

    do It

    GWMad Dog_2
  • EBEBRATT-Ed
    EBEBRATT-Ed Member Posts: 16,283

    The only reason I don't like drop headers is I think they look funny😊

    To me with long risers and skimming the water stays in the boiler and there is no need for a drop header and the extra fittings.

    I have yet to hear of someone who piped and skimmed the boiler correctly with a standard header and had issues.

    Do what is easier to pipe drop header or not.

    GWethicalpaul
  • pedmec
    pedmec Member Posts: 1,026

    Adding a drop header with that much ceiling space is a waste of time and money. You'll get the same dry steam with long risers out of the boiler as you will with a drop header. Let your 2-1/2" header drop out any droplets and you'll be good to go. Proper near boiler piping is key. I would worry more about getting the correct size boiler than trying to get fancy.

    If I said this once I've said it a million times. Drop headers are for low ceiling applications. If they were the preferred method the manufacturers would have it in there literature. It's a bail out.

    GWLong Beach Ed
  • STEAM DOCTOR
    STEAM DOCTOR Member Posts: 2,160

    One thing to bear in mind. Ideally, there would be no water carry over. Realistically, people aren't maintaining their water quality the way some of the steam fanatics on this website are. Which is a shame, but it is what it is. Most customers are not willing to pay for the multiple visits and cleanings and skimmings, after installation and down the road. Which means that there will be a good chance of some water carryover. Which adds value to the drop header, which is a one-time investment.

    GWMad Dog_2LRCCBJ
  • pedmec
    pedmec Member Posts: 1,026

    @STEAM DOCTOR Sorry, gonna have to disagree with that assessment. Installing a drop header because you don't want to return and skim the boiler? so you leave your customer with a surging water line and higher fuel bills. doesn't sound like good business to me but hey to each there own. the labor and material savings of a standard near boiler piping offset the cost of a return visit to skim. its included in your quote.

  • STEAM DOCTOR
    STEAM DOCTOR Member Posts: 2,160

    Of course every boiler gets skimmed. Goes without saying. But an acceptable degree of skimming, does not guarantee perfectly dry Steam. @ethicalpaul for example, has done an extraordinary job, getting his water cleanliness and pH level.. to an exceptional level. And maintaining as such. Super commendable.Above and beyond what is expected from an acceptable level from your average installation. I don't think it is expected, from your average installer, to perform multiple skims and the multiple revisits and re-water treatments, to ensure that everything about the water quality is absolutely perfect. Sure that would be ideal. But don't think your average customer is paying for that. You're basic skin and water treatment. Sure. Multiple visits.. don't think so.

    ethicalpaulMad Dog_2LRCCBJ
  • STEAM DOCTOR
    STEAM DOCTOR Member Posts: 2,160

    Drop better is one or two extra elbows per boiler riser and a few nipples. In the course of a boiler installation, won't even notice the difference in price.

    ethicalpaulMad Dog_2LRCCBJWaher
  • ethicalpaul
    ethicalpaul Member Posts: 6,433

    I agree with basically everyone in this thread, because everybody is saying true things.

    I will just say that yes I pay too much attention to my boiler, but it doesn't need to be that way to have good water. All you need is the initial skimming sessions that every boiler should get, then that's it. Even without treatment, as Jamie and others have found, the water will be fine with something as simple as a little flushing once per season.

    NJ Steam Homeowner.
    Free NJ and remote steam advice: https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/new-jersey-steam-help/
    See my sight glass boiler videos: https://bit.ly/3sZW1el

    Mad Dog_2
  • ethicalpaul
    ethicalpaul Member Posts: 6,433

    What is your suggestion, @Mad Dog_2 ?

    NJ Steam Homeowner.
    Free NJ and remote steam advice: https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/new-jersey-steam-help/
    See my sight glass boiler videos: https://bit.ly/3sZW1el

  • GW
    GW Member Posts: 4,816

    click Yeah! If you enjoy banging 3” 😀

    Gary Wilson
    Wilson Services, Inc
    Northampton, MA
    gary@wilsonph.com
    ChrisJethicalpaulSuperTech
  • Mad Dog_2
    Mad Dog_2 Member Posts: 7,472

    Unless the building has brand-spankin-new returns, it is often the case that the system will need a thorough cleaning right after the install and a few months in to the season. Skimming is a cherry on the Sundae....final step. Mad Dog

    ethicalpaulLong Beach Ed
  • ethicalpaul
    ethicalpaul Member Posts: 6,433

    I wouldn't call it the final step. If you don't do it at installation time, you are sentencing your client to experiencing a lot of banging and surging.

    The washing soda treatment followed by skimming on the day of installation is a good start, but then yes expect another skimming session or several after some time passes.

    NJ Steam Homeowner.
    Free NJ and remote steam advice: https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/new-jersey-steam-help/
    See my sight glass boiler videos: https://bit.ly/3sZW1el

    delcrossv
  • GW
    GW Member Posts: 4,816
    Gary Wilson
    Wilson Services, Inc
    Northampton, MA
    gary@wilsonph.com
    Mad Dog_2
  • GW
    GW Member Posts: 4,816

    OK maybe the video won’t load up

    Gary Wilson
    Wilson Services, Inc
    Northampton, MA
    gary@wilsonph.com
    delcrossv
  • delcrossv
    delcrossv Member Posts: 1,241
    edited November 14

    Video won't play. Can you share more pictures?

    Trying to squeeze the best out of a Weil-McLain JB-5 running a 1912 1 pipe system.
  • ethicalpaul
    ethicalpaul Member Posts: 6,433

    video must live somewhere else and be linked here

    NJ Steam Homeowner.
    Free NJ and remote steam advice: https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/new-jersey-steam-help/
    See my sight glass boiler videos: https://bit.ly/3sZW1el

    HeatingHelp.com
  • GW
    GW Member Posts: 4,816

    I kind of butchered some wiring to heat things up.Electrician is coming tomorrow.

    The lead install guy took off with the van with all the goodies. We need to put a puker on the backflow preventer.

    And of course, do some skimming


    Gary Wilson
    Wilson Services, Inc
    Northampton, MA
    gary@wilsonph.com
    WaherRevenant
  • Mad Dog_2
    Mad Dog_2 Member Posts: 7,472

    Beautiful job Gary!! Mad Dog

    GW
  • delcrossv
    delcrossv Member Posts: 1,241

    Is the second main counterflow? Why the severe backwards pitch?

    Trying to squeeze the best out of a Weil-McLain JB-5 running a 1912 1 pipe system.
  • GW
    GW Member Posts: 4,816

    it’s severe pitch for several feet, then it becomes normal. I didn’t want to reinvent the wheel on that. Perhaps some condensate will roll backwards, but I suspect not enough to be an issue.

    Gary Wilson
    Wilson Services, Inc
    Northampton, MA
    gary@wilsonph.com
    STEAM DOCTORdelcrossvMad Dog_2
  • Long Beach Ed
    Long Beach Ed Member Posts: 1,296

    Nice work!

    GWdelcrossvMad Dog_2
  • delcrossv
    delcrossv Member Posts: 1,241
    Trying to squeeze the best out of a Weil-McLain JB-5 running a 1912 1 pipe system.
  • ethicalpaul
    ethicalpaul Member Posts: 6,433

    Dude that's the highest supply pipes I have ever seen 😅

    Leave some steel for the other installers!

    NJ Steam Homeowner.
    Free NJ and remote steam advice: https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/new-jersey-steam-help/
    See my sight glass boiler videos: https://bit.ly/3sZW1el

    GWMad Dog_2
  • ScottSecor
    ScottSecor Member Posts: 895

    Very nice job.

    I am a little jealous that the ceiling appears to be taller than me, the basement is not loaded with fifty years of "collectables," and there is more than one dim forty watt light bulb.

    ethicalpauldelcrossvSTEAM DOCTOR
  • GW
    GW Member Posts: 4,816
    Gary Wilson
    Wilson Services, Inc
    Northampton, MA
    gary@wilsonph.com
    ethicalpauldelcrossv
  • GW
    GW Member Posts: 4,816

    Scott yes it prompted me to do an Aplus job.

    Nasty basements—-more psychology is needed.

    Gary Wilson
    Wilson Services, Inc
    Northampton, MA
    gary@wilsonph.com
    PC7060
  • Mad Dog_2
    Mad Dog_2 Member Posts: 7,472

    Paul..you should see the one I did i 25 yrs ago in Floral Park..two three inch risers all the way to the joists...Solved a problem job no one could....Mad Dog

    ethicalpaulGW
  • delcrossv
    delcrossv Member Posts: 1,241
    Trying to squeeze the best out of a Weil-McLain JB-5 running a 1912 1 pipe system.
    Mad Dog_2
  • GW
    GW Member Posts: 4,816
    Gary Wilson
    Wilson Services, Inc
    Northampton, MA
    gary@wilsonph.com
  • Long Beach Ed
    Long Beach Ed Member Posts: 1,296

    Dog probably threads them by hand! One hand, all day long.

    delcrossvLarry WeingartenGWMad Dog_2
  • JUGHNE
    JUGHNE Member Posts: 11,259

    A few years ago I wrestled a 2 1/2" plug out of a tee on the side of a rebranded Utica boiler.

    Looking inside it was obvious the internal supply header was much smaller in diameter than the external outlet.

    As a gauge, a 1 1/2" EMT conduit would not fit into the internal header, however a 1 1/4" EMT would just slide inside across the boiler.

    I added a reducing coupling to the skim port. This forced the skimming water to rise above all the sections of the boiler. Without the reducer, only the water rising up in the closest section would flow out of the skim port.

    I know this may have been mentioned in the past or even above, but I believe it is important info.

    LRCCBJethicalpaulBobCScottSecor
  • GW
    GW Member Posts: 4,816

    @JUGHNE OK interesting, I'll look in there when I go back to skim. These are 2" taps. At times I'll fill the boiler up a bit and see the goo flow out by simple way of flow.

    Gary Wilson
    Wilson Services, Inc
    Northampton, MA
    gary@wilsonph.com
  • Mad Dog_2
    Mad Dog_2 Member Posts: 7,472

    No, my supplier, Christ Plumbing supply (New Hyde Park Supply) circa 1810 will cut & thread up to 4" for me. Above that my boy Neal at Quentzel in Brooklyn threads the big stuff. Mad Dog

  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 16,233

    You don't have a Ridgid 141?

    I'm honestly surprised. I assume not enough work to justify it?

    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
    delcrossv
  • delcrossv
    delcrossv Member Posts: 1,241

    Don't even need to pop for the power drive. Heck, that's why God made apprentices. 😆

    Trying to squeeze the best out of a Weil-McLain JB-5 running a 1912 1 pipe system.
  • Mad Dog_2
    Mad Dog_2 Member Posts: 7,472

    Never needed to buy one because the big union shops I worked for let me borrow or use if needed. Any more involved jobs, I sketched out to pre fab shops. Makes more sense fiscally as I can do more thinking and supervising. Mad Dog

    PC7060