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Head loss Calculation - Pump Sizing - 1 pipe monoflo system

paul3x16
paul3x16 Member Posts: 16
edited November 2024 in THE MAIN WALL

Hi, i need help

I'm trying to figure out the head loss. but i got lost lol.

Hydroterm Boiler - Input 95,000 BTU/HR - 76,000 BTU/HR

One loop system - not sure if its a monoflow system.

One Zone, Main loop 3/4 (60 linear ft), Branch out to cast iron radiators with 1/2 - total of 12 radiators assume 10ft off the main loop.

when i purchase the house they change the circulating pump. since then some radiators stopped heating up. they just get warm (the furthers ones). i feel like my taco 007 its too small. I'm in the process to replace it with a 010 or 014 but i can't figure out how to calculate the head loss.

according to Taco - my head loss is 21.

i did get the GMP 76,000/10,000 = 7.6GMP

but on this discussion that i found on this blog,

circulator sizing for 1 pipe monoflo tee system — Heating Help: The Wall

they also calculate the head loss on the main loop and the branch to radiators.

using their calculation main loop gives me 4.6 head loss and 4.94 head loss on the branch. total 9. but i know my taco 007 should be in range. but its not.

What PSI should my system have, 12PSI or 15PSI. it's a basement and a 1st floor

i recently change the Expansion tank. but i did not let some air out, i believe it comes at 40PSI.

Can someone help me PLEASEEEE

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Comments

  • Big Ed_4
    Big Ed_4 Member Posts: 3,120

    Mono flow should be low head and high flow …. Volume is what you are looking for ..

    There was an error rendering this rich post.

    paul3x16
  • paul3x16
    paul3x16 Member Posts: 16

    ok perfect, Thank you.. how do i calculate the volume??

    another question. what PSI should i set my system to, 12PSI or 15PSI. its a basement (where the boiler is) and first floor.

    also i replaced the expansion tank, i just realize i never check the pressure of the expansion tank, i was reading that i need to lower the PSI to match my system.

  • Gilmorrie
    Gilmorrie Member Posts: 188

    Why was the pump replaced? It would be helpful to learn the model of the pump that was removed. If the system worked satisfactorily with that pump, that could be a starting point?

    What is the Btu rating of the boiler?

  • EBEBRATT-Ed
    EBEBRATT-Ed Member Posts: 17,177

    Need more information. Is the monoflow loop 60' out and back? You also need the EDR of all the radiation to determine the flow volume. And the branch piping to the rads is it 1/2" 10' out and back?

  • paul3x16
    paul3x16 Member Posts: 16
    edited November 2024

    im trying to figure out what is the cause of some radiators not heating up. Before buying the house i was renting the same house. One day the pump failed, the owner replaced it. Since i was only renting i did not pay attention of the old pump. After that it’s when the radiators stop working. I don’t know if it might be the pressure on the system or the pump. And since i own the house now. Im trying to fix it.

    76,000 btu and current pump 007


    i called various technicians none of them wants to troubleshoot the problem. Their only option it’s to replace the boiler. The boiler it’s not leaking

  • EdTheHeaterMan
    EdTheHeaterMan Member Posts: 10,123
    edited November 2024

    Don't lower the factory pressure in the expansion tank. It should be factory charged at 12 PSI If it is lower than 12 PSI then you can add air pressure.

    As far as a one story home over a basement, 12 PSI is more than enough, but i would not lower it.

    And you want to be sure you have a one pipe monoflo® system to measure the pump head requirements. Look for these tee fittings

    The one I circled looks like it could be a 3/4" thru with a 1/2" branch like you have described.

    @paul3x16 Said: One Zone, Main loop 3/4 (60 linear ft), Branch out to cast iron radiators with 1/2 - total of 12 radiators assume 10ft off the main loop.

    This tells me that you have only 40,000 BTU heat capacity on that one loop, and require only 4 gallons per minute for that loop (not the 10 GPM you indicate on your pump curve chart).

    That means your boiler is oversized for the system, unless you have a second loop on the same single zone thermostat. It is possible that you had a B&G 100 pump at one time, and for the most part a Taco 007 will do most jobs.

    If your system was a poorly designed monoflo® then the B&G 100 may have pushed a tad more flow rate, like maybe as much as 5 GPM. That may have been a little noisy but that noise may have been in 3/4" main pipe in the basement and was not transmitted to the first floor pipes.

    if you do not have tee fittings like the picture above for each radiator (or another brand of similar design that would have an arrow embossed on the side) then you may have series loop design.

    Here is the difference

    Each red dot indicates a monoflo® tee and both the supply and return are connected to the same larger "one pipe"

    Each section of baseboard radiator is connected to the next one on the line. Many times when the radiators are not physically next to each other, the pipe at one end drops below the floor then rises ul at the next radiator to continue the loop. Like this

    There are other ways to pipe a radiator system also. Can you tell if you have the special Diverter tees or Monoflo® tee fittings anywhere or if you have a series loop? This can help determine the best way to fix your system

    Edward Young Retired

    After you make that expensive repair and you still have the same problem, What will you check next?

    SuperTechpaul3x16PC7060
  • paul3x16
    paul3x16 Member Posts: 16

    Hydrotherm Boiler - Input 95,000 BTU/HR - output 76,000 BTU/HR

    main loop 3/4" - 60' out and back

    branch piping 1/2" - average 20' out and back total of 12 radiators.

    the width of the house is 24' the pipes goes in the center, lenth of the house 52'

    this are the type of radiators that i have, i dont know how to get the EDR but i found the following

    6x 8sections - BTU @ 180°F: 3,056

    5x 16sections

    1x 36sections

    i check the expantion tank its 12 PSI, and my system is also at 12 PSI.

    my system looks like the one-pipe monoflo design that you suggested. i did not see those fittings that you showed me. instead i found the following. its not very clear. BTW i have two systems, its a 2 family house. i have to boilers, one boiler for the basement and 1st floor (12 radiators), and the other one for the 2floor (9).. thats why you see 2 pipes.. i believe this pipes are returning.

    its hard to tell since the house was build 1960, I'm going to try to take a better picture tomorrow.

    i think some of them look like this

    Thank you for the help

  • EBEBRATT-Ed
    EBEBRATT-Ed Member Posts: 17,177

    B4 you change the pump, you should remove the expansion tank from the system. You have to check and adjust the air pressure with the tank not having any water pressure on the tank. Then bleed the entire system and start the boiler.

    Monoflo system if that is what you have are difficult to bleed you may have to go back and forth and bleed the rads 2-3 times. 10' of pipe on a Monoflo system is a little long so that could be the reason and you may need a larger pump for that reason.

  • paul3x16
    paul3x16 Member Posts: 16

    the living room (24’x14’), radiator (81”) it’s the furthest form the loop. At least 15’ away from the main loop. Was not heating up. But I do think is the pump. But I don’t know how to size it or which one to get. Last week I drain the system and made sure the psi matches the expansion tank. 12psi. After I did all this. Finally the radiator form the living room was getting little warm, not hot like the other ones.

  • EdTheHeaterMan
    EdTheHeaterMan Member Posts: 10,123

    You have the Diverter Tee system commonly known as Monoflo® (the same way the Royal brand gelatin, is called JELLO).

    That said your pump head is determined by this rule of thumb.

    In a post herein from 2002 someone suggested that you need to add 12 feet for each Diverter tee on the loop. I'm not sure that is correct but here is the comment

    Still, the way I was taught (a former Bell and Gossett representative who used "milli-inches" as units of pressure drop in the classic B&G way) was to take the sum of the main circuit (pipe, elbows, normal and MonoFlow tees), PLUS the longest branch run and emitter pressure drop, plus the boiler. In your case what you figured was straight pipe, 50% for fittings (a guess let's admit it) and a pressure drop of 4 feet per 100 feet of pipe. You have to add the cumulative MonoFlow fitting losses to that plus the longest branch is how I was taught. (That was in 1977-78 by the way.)

    So your 60 feet round trip for the one pipe loop plus the 20 feet for the longest radiator branch would be 80 feet.

    • 80 feet longest run
    • add 50% to this
    • then add 12 feet for each tee on the loop
    • multiply by .04
    • That is your pump head.

    [80 + 40 + (12ft x 12 tees)] x .04 =

    (80 + 40 + 144) x .04 =

    264 x .04 = 10.56 head

    I think that is a little high, so I looked at the Cv rating of one tee fitting 3/4" x 1/2" which is 4.3 when the 1/2" branch is closed off. That means that you can get a little over 4 GPM to pass through that tee when there is a pressure drop of 1 PSI. Now 1 PSI is equal to 2.31 feet of head, and 3/4" pipe handles 4 GPM in a "quiet" hydronic system anyway. Now with that information in hand and the fact that all the diverter tee fittings are the same, then the 1 PSI drop is already handled by the first tee and all the other tee fittings will not have any smaller orifice for the water to pass thru, Is it logical to do the calculation this way?

    • 80 feet longest run
    • add 50% to this
    • multiply by .04
    • then add 2.31 ft head for all the tee fittings
    • That is your pump head.

    (80 + 40) x .04 + 2.31 =

    (120) x .04 + 2.31=

    4.8 + 2.31 = 7.11 head

    And since none of the 1/2" branches off the tee fittings will be capped off, then is it fair to say that this Cv will not even be a factor? And the rule of thumb of adding only 50% to get the total equivalent length just means that I'm calculating just a bit high on the pump head? And I don't need no stinkin' milli-inches here.

    Since the weakest link in the chain is the 3/4" pipe for the main one pipe loop around the building and a 3/4" pipe can only move about 40,000 BTUs at 4 GPM, then your heating system capacity is 40,000 BTUh with an oversized boiler with a NET output of 64,600 or 380 NET SqFt of radiation@ 170°   I hope you don't have more than 380 SqFt of radiation.

    I have not run into this problem in the past, so I am just theorizing on the pump head calc. There are others that can give a more concise answer with the numbers you provided  Lets hope they chime in

    Edward Young Retired

    After you make that expensive repair and you still have the same problem, What will you check next?

    paul3x16
  • EdTheHeaterMan
    EdTheHeaterMan Member Posts: 10,123

    @paul3x16 Said: I checked the expansion tank its 12 PSI, and my system is also at 12 PSI.

    That makes sense that the water pressure o one side of the tank (connected to the boiler) and the other side of the tank are both the same. It's the same tank! That will not tell you what the air pressure charge of the empty tank is. If the tank lost air and only has 6 PSI in it empty, then when you add 12 PSI water to the other side the water will fill up over 1/2 of the tank to compress that air to 12 PSI. Now you have a tank with less than 1/2 of its capacity to collect expanding water.

    You need to remove the tank from the water pressure. Then charge the tank with air when there is no water in the other side. Once you put water pressure in the system then the 12 psi in the tank will hold back the 12 PSI cold water pressure in the boiler. Now you have a full tank of air to accept much more expanding water, as it heats up.

    Edward Young Retired

    After you make that expensive repair and you still have the same problem, What will you check next?

    paul3x16
  • LRCCBJ
    LRCCBJ Member Posts: 837

    Ed, you'd need to add 2.31' head for EACH ONE of the monoflo tees. If there are 12 radiators, you'd need to add 27.6' just for the monoflo tees.

    I had a system with six monoflo tees (same 3/4 x 1/2) with about 120 feet of 3/4 and I could not get the DT below 25 even with a Taco-11 pump!

    Of course if the flow rate was a bit less than 4.3 and the branch is open (which it is), the number will reduce quite a bit.

    The headloss in the 3/4 x 1/2 system is severe!

    EdTheHeaterManpaul3x16hot_rod
  • EdTheHeaterMan
    EdTheHeaterMan Member Posts: 10,123

    thanks for that information @LRCCBJ I have never had to deal with that situation. As a matter of fact, I only had four regular customers that had mono flow systems that I can remember. They all had 1 inch or one and a quarter inch mains.

    I have a feeling that the OP had a B&G 100 originally. It does look to be that age. What do you think?

    Edward Young Retired

    After you make that expensive repair and you still have the same problem, What will you check next?

    paul3x16delcrossv
  • paul3x16
    paul3x16 Member Posts: 16
    edited November 2024

    Yes, that's the pump it had before they change to 007. i only remember because it was red and big. and after that the problem started.

    perfect thank you for showing me. I'm going to do this on the weekend.

    great explanation thank you very much. some of my calculations i had it right. but this confirms where i mess up.

    (120+27.6) x .04 + 2.31= 8.214 Head

    the question is, should i replace my current pump (007) with a 0010 (i got it for free) - since OP was B&G 100. and it looks like the chart and other discussions are agreeing with 0010 being a replacement for B&G 100.

    @EdTheHeaterMan @LRCCBJ ???

    Replace B&G 100 or use Taco 007 monoflo — Heating Help: The Wall

    B&G 100 - Swap with Taco 007, 0010, or Grundfos Alpha? — Heating Help: The Wall

    What do you guys think???

    Thank you!!

  • EBEBRATT-Ed
    EBEBRATT-Ed Member Posts: 17,177

    When I was taught venturi tee system in college, we used the Taco "guide for hydronic engineers" which I guess is out of print.

    venturi tee systems are complicated. You need to know the flow you need through the emitters.

    Knowing the heat loss through all the heat emitters on a circuit that gives you the flow needed through the main (10000btu/gpm 20 deg td) so the you size the main based on that the same as any HW system.

    Then you pick the venturi tees off the mfg chart. The size of the venturi tee needed is based on flow in the main and flow that needs to be diverted through the branch

    So basically, you calculate the main loop including all the venturi tees elbows boiler flow check etc etc at the flow needed and the add the resistance of the rad that has the most resistance in the branch piping.

    You can't reengineer this backwards without more information.

    I guess just take a guess and install a larger pump.

    But before doing that I would make sure the expansion tank pressure is correct and that they system is bled

    paul3x16
  • EdTheHeaterMan
    EdTheHeaterMan Member Posts: 10,123

    So, I superimposed the B&G curve over the Taco curve

    Then I plotted the B&G 100 curve on the combination of the two.

    Then I faded the B&G curve out

    I added the blue and green to highlight the two Taco pumps in question.  It appeared that at the 4 GPM mark that a 3/4" pipe can handle, that both the 007 and the 0010 outperform the B&G 100 (red line) so I looked at the other “red pump” you might have had and the B&G HV (in violet) is above all of them.  At the 4 GPM line the 0010 is only a little lower, and since it is free, then I would go for it. 

    Edward Young Retired

    After you make that expensive repair and you still have the same problem, What will you check next?

  • paul3x16
    paul3x16 Member Posts: 16

    @EdTheHeaterMan Thank you for everything. I'll make the changes on the weekend. i let you know the outcome!

    EdTheHeaterMan
  • Kaos
    Kaos Member Posts: 468
    edited November 2024

    I swapping the pump out won't work, you need a high head circulator. That would be a 009 if only for one zone or a 0011 if for the whole boiler.

    Another option is to get another 007 and put it in series with the existing one to boost the overall head capability. Bit more work but much cheaper than either 009 or 011. Generally the newer ECM ones (ie 007e) are worth it as they pay for the extra cost in electricity savings.

  • paul3x16
    paul3x16 Member Posts: 16

    i was looking at the 0011 or 0014 earlier, but since i could not get my calculations right i was not sure.

    3/4 copper - mini flow 3.2 max flow 6.5gmp. using that with the formula that TACO has. i was getting 17.99 head.

    4.10 SELECTING CIRCULATO (TD10)

  • Kaos
    Kaos Member Posts: 468
    edited November 2024

    I think you are underestimating the flow loss of the monoflow Ts. If you don't have TRVs or not throttling the rads, they are less but still pretty restrictive.

    I was re-reading your post, I though you had two zones, doesn't look like that is the situation. In that case, you need about 7GPM which puts you above a 009 or dual 007. That is single 011 or 014 territory.

    When you hook up the 010, crank the heat and measure the delta T across your boiler. You can then back-calculate your flow and from the pump curve figure out the restriction. From there you can size the proper pump for the job.

    paul3x16
  • hot_rod
    hot_rod Member Posts: 24,423

    Also a monoflo piping has the heat emitters in series, so the radiators at the end of the loop will see a much lower temperature

    There are quite a few steps involved in designing a diverter tee system. Modern Hydronic is a textbook with a chapter on the design of these systems.

    Are you sure the main loop piping isn’t 1” copper, 1-1/8” od?

    Bob "hot rod" Rohr
    trainer for Caleffi NA
    Living the hydronic dream
  • paul3x16
    paul3x16 Member Posts: 16

    you just made me doubt, lol ill double check if its 3/4" or 1", but im pretty sure is 3/4". you always learn something new eveyrday, i didnt know that monoflo piping, pump sizing, btu, gpm was going to be so difficult.. but for being my first time trying to fix and understand how the system works. i think im doing a good job lol.

  • paul3x16
    paul3x16 Member Posts: 16

    yes only one zone. I was about to buy the 0011. but was not sure about my calculations. but since I have 0010 for free mind as well try it out. also was suggested by someone else on the discussion since it seems it has the same curvature of the original pump (assuming it was B&G 100), btw how do I calculate the delta T. delta T of??? sorry I'm not a mechanic/plumber so I'm not familiar with the terminology.

  • hot_rod
    hot_rod Member Posts: 24,423
    edited November 2024

    Start with that pump you already have.

    It can be a bugger to get this type of piping purged out. Hopefully you have air vents in multiple locations?

    Once you get everything circulating fire it up and let it run. The delta T will change based on the load of the rooms. Generally you will see a wide delta when a cold system first fires, that delta will close as the building warms up.

    20∆ is a common design number. A system may never run at that exact number.

    As the system warms it will reach thermal equilibrium. The heat emitters are always in charge of the boiler operating temperature condition.

    When temperature stabilize, both the supply and return are stable, that is when you have reached thermal equilibrium. Measure the delta at that point also.

    More reading on heat transfer here.

    https://www.caleffi.com/sites/default/files/media/external-file/Idronics_23_NA_Heat%20transfer%20in%20hydronic%20systems.pdf

    Bob "hot rod" Rohr
    trainer for Caleffi NA
    Living the hydronic dream
    paul3x16
  • paul3x16
    paul3x16 Member Posts: 16

    got it! i will read it. i think i might change my career from electrical estimating to plumbing estimating lol..

  • LRCCBJ
    LRCCBJ Member Posts: 837

    Ed, the problem with both the 007 and the 100 is that they cannot handle any head above 10'. The only way to get a 3/4" x 1/2" monoflow system with 12 diverter tees down to 10' is to flow it extremely slowly……….say 2 GPM………..which is going to result in a huge DT and the rads at the end of the loop will be basically cold.

    If you want to actually flow 4 GPM through this system, you'll need a massive pump. I doubt the 011 will pull it off with a reasonable DT based on my previous experience with this exact setup with only 6 monoflo tees. I am of the opinion that you cannot exactly believe B&G regarding the 4.3 Cv for these tiny diverter tees.

    If the system actually has 1" x 1/2" tees, then the problem disappears completely. You could probably use a 007 and get 4 GPM out of it.

    hot_rod
  • LRCCBJ
    LRCCBJ Member Posts: 837

    (120+27.6) x .04 + 2.31= 

    8.214 Head

    This is totally incorrect.

    You have 120 EL piping: The 3/4 M loses .037 ft /foot of piping @ 4 GPM: 4.44 ft. head

    You have 12 monoflo tees: Estimated: 2 ft head @ 4 gpm/tee: 24 ft. head

    TOTAL HEAD: 28.44 FT

    You'd need a Taco 011 to have any hope of a decent flow and I'm not at all convinced that it will keep the DT down to 20!

    paul3x16
  • hot_rod
    hot_rod Member Posts: 24,423
    edited November 2024

    The Hydronic Design Software, circuit simulator, make this calc simple. Try the free demo at www.hydronicpros.com

    Bob "hot rod" Rohr
    trainer for Caleffi NA
    Living the hydronic dream
    delcrossv
  • EdTheHeaterMan
    EdTheHeaterMan Member Posts: 10,123

    I was just looking at the Cv of a ¾” monoflo® tee with the branch closed off is 4.2. That is not equal to Head loss in any way shape or form. Head loss and CV (Contraction Velocity) are two related but distinct concepts in fluid dynamics. There is no correlation to each other like comparing Watts to BTUs.  I was just conjecturing what the head loss might be to a piece of copper that is less than 3” long with an orifice that is less that ⅜” inside it might be based on the fact that the Cv of 4.2 means that the fitting (or valve) with that rating would allow 4.2 gallons of water to pass thru that orifice when there is a pressure drop of 1 PSI.  and we know that 1 PSI is equal to approximately 2.31ft. of head.  

    Since the branch of each Tee fitting will not be capped off and only the friction of the branch runs plus the friction of the radiator will influence the amount of water that will pass thru the branch, that actual Cv of that fitting is not really in question, since there will be a significant amount of flow in the alternate route around that branch. The Cv of the combination of the entire assembly that includes the straight thru and the branch around then back to the related tee fitting is not a known number because every length of branch pipe and every radiator combination will ultimately be a different number.  I believe the head loss through that assembly from one tee fitting to the other, is not as significant as some may think.  

    I’m inclined to believe that the HV pump may have been used  on that system because at the time of installing the job, the installer probably used a B&G 100.  After finding the last few radiators on the run were significantly cooler than the first few radiators, the only easy fix was to go the the next larger pump (B&G HV).  That may have upped the flow from 4 GPM to 5 GPM in that small ¾” one pipe main loop.  

    The proper way to fix it would have been to use a 1” main with ½” branch to each radiator.   That is why the rule of thumb chart has a "TOTAL CONVECTORS A PIPE CAN SERVE" section

    I would bet dollars to donuts that @paul3x16 has more that 40,000 BTU of radiators on that loop. To get more heat you need more flow, to get more flow… bump up the pump size.

    Just a guess the entire 007 curve falls below the B&G HV. Since the 0010 is available for free at this time, it can't hurt to try it.

    Edward Young Retired

    After you make that expensive repair and you still have the same problem, What will you check next?

    paul3x16
  • hot_rod
    hot_rod Member Posts: 24,423

    The unknown is still the size of those divertor tees?

    The branch looks to be 3/4? So the trunk is 1", which means 8 gpm or more will flow that loop easily. So 80,000 BTU/hr at 20∆.

    Bob "hot rod" Rohr
    trainer for Caleffi NA
    Living the hydronic dream
    LRCCBJ
  • LRCCBJ
    LRCCBJ Member Posts: 837

    I really hope you are correct. However, the size of the BX tends to indicate otherwise. The photo is very deceiving.

  • paul3x16
    paul3x16 Member Posts: 16

    Good morning everyone.

    i didn't measure the pipe. i forgot. I only changed the pump to 0010. but the weekend in NJ was warm. i didn't turn it on. until last night. it seems i didn't purge the system correctly. i have air in the pipes this causing the radiator that was finally getting warm on my previous purge to be cold again. such a difficult system to drain. btw that pump is noisy lol

    any suggestions what the best way is to purge the system.

    what i did after removing all the water. i let the water back in, once it was done filling up, I open the air valve in each radiator.

    I look at another discussion, they suggested to close the loop (the shutoff above the water pump - return line), connect a hose on the bottom of the boiler and let water flow get rid of the air, then open the valves to release more air from each radiator.

    today I will measure the size of the pipe.

    lol i bet that too.

  • EdTheHeaterMan
    EdTheHeaterMan Member Posts: 10,123

    @paul3x16 found a discussion said: I look at another discussion, they suggested to close the loop (the shutoff above the water pump - return line), connect a hose on the bottom of the boiler and let water flow get rid of the air, then open the valves to release more air from each radiator.

    Did they say how the air gets to the bottom? I was under the impression that the water was much heavier than the air. The way you get air to go down in a system was to force it out with water pressure behind it and an open valve at the purge station. I can't see anyone getting enough water pressure to force the air to the bottom of the boiler, without the relief valve opening… But that's just me. I don't think the same way as the others that cant' fix stuff think.

    So in your minds eye think like water and think like air. If you see water in a bucket or bottle, and you look closely at it where do you see the air? The air in the pipe you can't see thru is doing the same thing when the pump is off. It is finding the top of the system pipes. That would be the radiators in most cases. When the pump operates and the water moves, the water will take the path of least resistance. Since there is air in the radiator, the water may try to go to the branch in the tee until it can't anymore. Eventually the water is too heavy for the pump to lift to the radiator. The air on the other side of the radiator might be pushing the water. down into the main pipe but that is too hard because the air is so much lighter that the water. So the path of least resistance for the water is to go straight thru the tee and skip that radiator completely.

    Edward Young Retired

    After you make that expensive repair and you still have the same problem, What will you check next?

    paul3x16
  • paul3x16
    paul3x16 Member Posts: 16

    I agree on what you say @EdTheHeaterMan . my though process is the same. the air will always rise towards the top. which will be on the air valves at each radiator…… and that's how I've been bleeding the air out every time. but what i recently saw its called force water purging.

    well, my update the Livingroom and kitchen radiators are warming up. not as hot as the other ones but its getting warmer even than before. I have not calculated the DT nor measure the pipe., I will on the weekend, been so busy at work i just get home to rest. but……. now the bathroom radiator is not heating up. it was before. soooo definitely air in the pipe.

  • EBEBRATT-Ed
    EBEBRATT-Ed Member Posts: 17,177

    @EdTheHeaterMan

    Respectfully I have to disagree on this the Cv is directly correlated to head pressure they are one in the same. Look on a B & G circuit setter.

    LRCCBJ
  • Big Ed_4
    Big Ed_4 Member Posts: 3,120

    Looks like a 0010 , perfect circulator for a mono flow . What changed ?

    There was an error rendering this rich post.

  • Kaos
    Kaos Member Posts: 468

    A Taco 010 is a high volume pump. For a monoflow setup you want a high head pump, so that is 009, 011 or 013.

    In some cases you can use a 010 as does provide more pressure than a 007 but it will consume significantly more power than the correct high head pump to move the same amount of water. For something that runs most of your heating season, that power cost does up so might as well get the right one.

    LRCCBJpaul3x16
  • paul3x16
    paul3x16 Member Posts: 16

    0011

    my boiler had a B&G pump, which one was it i don't know.. it was changed to a 007. but it was not doing the work right. i order a 0010. but when i return it amazon told me it's not returnable item, but they gave me back the money. so 0010 its free.. my intensions were to get the 0011.

    MAIN LOOP 3/4 - PURPLE - (SAME LOOP FOR BOTH FLOORS)
    BRANCH 1/2 - GREEN

    RISER

  • Kaos
    Kaos Member Posts: 468

    Ok, so it is a single pump for two zones. In that case you want an 011 or a 013. If you can get a pressure loss measurement with existing 010 you can figure out what you actually need.

    You can also just order the large one and throttle it down if the pipes get loud.

    I doubt the 010 will be enough.