No Header, Equalizer, Hartford Loop, Insulation or Main Vents? How would it work?
@ethicalpaul got me thinking on his recent discussion and test of installing a valve on his boiler equalizer to essentially remove the equalizer from the equation.
I have a single pipe counterflow system. 220 sq.ft. of EDR and the boiler has ~320 sq.ft. of capacity.
My 41 year old Peerless boiler (modern 63-03 equivelent) does not have a header installed (yikes!) Each riser from the boiler goes to its own 2-1/2" main.
There is no Equalizer either. Each main does have a drip leg that goes to the bottom of the boiler. Hartford loop? Meh. I guess they didn't need that either…the drip legs go right to the bottom of the boiler. Main Venting? Pfffft. Nope.
It has been working just fine for 40+ years! I have recently installed main vents and insulation and that got the heat to the radiators much faster and quieted down the radiator vents.
This summer I plan to re-pipe the near boiler piping per the manufacturers specs. Since the boiler is 40 years old I will re-pipe it so it will easily swap over to the 63-03L when it comes time for replacement.
I've never had water hammer, surging or priming. Regular use of 8-way keeps it squeeky clean. I recently installed a Vaporstat to keep the pressure under 1psi and it has helped reduce fuel consumption.
My conclusion: Steam heat is very forgiving! It seems with less than ideal installations a combination of very dirty boiler water and/or oils combined with high pressures usually are the cause for 75%+ of the problems we see here.
That said….any guesses how my system will act once it is piped and vented properly?
Comments
-
what we say is the proper way to pipe is what the boiler manufacturer draws? But it is just what is acceptable and will allow a multitude of different kind of systems to work with one configuration? A universal and conformal way of piping makes it easier to diagnose issues in the future? Determine warranties?
The "proper" way will allow your system to work great as well i'm sure. Are there different ways with the same result? I'm sure as well..
0 -
It will work great. It sounds like your current boiler is also working great so it is likely to be indistinguishable.
NJ Steam Homeowner.
Free NJ and remote steam advice: https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/new-jersey-steam-help/
See my sight glass boiler videos: https://bit.ly/3sZW1el
3 -
With its age it may have been the last of the boilers that had some space at the top of the HX to separate steam and water.
1 -
My 63-03L (admittedly the smallest Peerless boiler) never gets a drop of water past the top of the jacket. The water has to be pretty crummy for the header to even come into play as a separator. The problem is no one else can see what their water is doing until it's bad enough that it all gets carried out!
NJ Steam Homeowner.
Free NJ and remote steam advice: https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/new-jersey-steam-help/
See my sight glass boiler videos: https://bit.ly/3sZW1el0 -
@AdmiralYoda , you are absolutely correct. Steam heat is incredibly forgining. While there are best practices, one can go quite a ways away from them and it will work just fine. Of course the flip side of that — as folks have found out! — is that sometimes even a trivial difference and it won't work well, if at all…
Br. Jamie, osb
Building superintendent/caretaker, 7200 sq. ft. historic house museum with dependencies in New England0 -
The 1920s Redflash that was next door to me didn't have a header, hartford loop, equalizer or any insulation either.
It worked just fine for almost 100 years.
But part of that is because the boiler was designed to supply good dry steam without a header.
Single pipe 392sqft system with an EG-40 rated for 325sqft and it's silent and balanced at all times.
1 -
An example is a sizable winter resort with counterflow and vents near top of radiators.
0 -
And when I repipe this thing with a header, equalizer and hartford loop, vent the heck out of the mains and add 1" insulation… the boiler will probably say…. "thanks, I guess".
The real reason I intend to do this isn't fuel savings…the fittings to re-pipe will cost 100x of what fuel I will save. It is to get the piping perfect in prep for the inevitable 63-03L which may be a few years or a few more decades…who knows?
If it makes my boilers life just a little bit easier and extends it life just a bit further I consider it paying it forward.
0 -
I don't know about steam, but some of the hydronic piping suggestion in manufacturers manuals is certainly questionable.
But hydronics is also is a forgiving medium to work with.
Newer mod cons are not quite as forgiving to bad piping/ pumping.
Bob "hot rod" Rohr
trainer for Caleffi NA
Living the hydronic dream1 -
@AdmiralYoda I see your system a bit differently. You have two headers and two equalizers. The need for or any benefit of a Hartford loop is debatable since your Wet return is about 2 feet long.
With typical Parallel Flow near boiler piping the header needs a drip, the Equalizer provides the drip, you have two headers and two drips. The headers just happen to be at the same level (or height) as the supply end of the mains. Since you have a Counter-Flow system your drips drain the headers and the mains.
Typically the Equalizer also provides a vacuum break for the Hartford loop so the boiler water can not be siphoned out of the boiler with a Wet return breach that may be out of sight. Your Wet return is about 2 feet long.
National - U.S. Gas Boiler 45+ Years Old
Steam 300 SQ. FT. - EDR 347
One Pipe System0 -
In this case the supply end of the main is below the Header. Look no Hartford loop.
National - U.S. Gas Boiler 45+ Years Old
Steam 300 SQ. FT. - EDR 347
One Pipe System
1 -
And could one even say that he has two equalizer loops since he has those drips? I mean I get that the equalizer loop should be as short as possible……….
PS: Now that I'm awake I see that you already said that lol.
0 -
I don't like the way Weil drew that. Anyone that has put pipe together knows you cant have a tee on a sloped main and then have the supply from the boiler above it be level without a swing joint or something
3 -
Funny thing, I told my boss that years ago.
He proved me wrong. Again.
I'd say you're correct, but, your use of "can't" I'd say isn't entirely true.
Single pipe 392sqft system with an EG-40 rated for 325sqft and it's silent and balanced at all times.
0 -
I think some of the MIC nipples and elbows I have encountered are threaded crooked enough that, with some PIA careful indexing and selecting you could make it work. It might mean buying 12x more fittings than you need to get ones that you can do it with, and returning the rest. I bought a bunch of extra 2 in. unions so I could pick the ones that I could index for parallel outlets. Either that or a pair of 45s can be used to articulate anything? I'm asking because I'm not an experienced steamfitter by any means 😆
0 -
I posted that example for two reasons. (I probably would never build it that way unless I had to)
1. No Hartford loop.
2. The header can be above or below, or possibly the same height as the main. The pressure difference is why the steam moves not the height difference (if any).
National - U.S. Gas Boiler 45+ Years Old
Steam 300 SQ. FT. - EDR 347
One Pipe System1 -
If the header was below the main (system header) then wouldn't it defeat the purpose of having parallel flow in it because it would serve as the drip for the main instead of the condensate going into the equalizer? I guess I agree as long as the equalizer gets the condensate from the system header before it hits the boiler header, and not like in the diagram, but like AdmiralYoda's installation. Has anyone ever seen it done like in this diagram? Seems a bit impractical because the system header can't be up against the floor joists. Some basements in old houses aren't a heck of a lot over 6 ft.
0 -
You're not suggesting a manufacturer's diagram, from a book, could possibly be wrong, are you?
Single pipe 392sqft system with an EG-40 rated for 325sqft and it's silent and balanced at all times.
1 -
I like it better this way but they should've said Where Headroom Permits and the graphic artist goofed by not putting a swing joint in for alignment. A 45 Ell, short nipple, 90 Ell, short nipple, then the system header Tee.
They should've shown an alternative version that would be like AdmiralYoda's for most situations where headroom matters.
Everything needs to be investigated to rule out echo chamber misinformation.
0
Categories
- All Categories
- 87.5K THE MAIN WALL
- 3.3K A-C, Heat Pumps & Refrigeration
- 59 Biomass
- 429 Carbon Monoxide Awareness
- 124 Chimneys & Flues
- 2.2K Domestic Hot Water
- 5.9K Gas Heating
- 119 Geothermal
- 168 Indoor-Air Quality
- 3.8K Oil Heating
- 78 Pipe Deterioration
- 1K Plumbing
- 6.6K Radiant Heating
- 394 Solar
- 15.9K Strictly Steam
- 3.5K Thermostats and Controls
- 56 Water Quality
- 50 Industry Classes
- 50 Job Opportunities
- 18 Recall Announcements