The WallClick here to Find a Contractor in your area.
Welcome! Here are the website rules, as well as some tips for using this forum.
If you've found help here, check back in to let us know how everything worked out.
It's a great way to thank those who helped you.
If you've found help here, check back in to let us know how everything worked out.
It's a great way to thank those who helped you.
Need to contact us? Visit https://heatinghelp.com/contact-us/.
Equalizer installed in between two risers
erickehoe
Member Posts: 19
Getting a 90-year-old boiler replaced with a 150,000 BTU Utica. The installers are putting the equalizer in between the two risers, rather than at the end of them. Their reasoning was that because the old risers are so far apart it would put the Hartford loop a good foot and a half away from the boiler and would also make it hard to find room for the flue pipe. The manual says to install it at the end instead of in between them, though. Thoughts?
Categories
- 109.6K All Categories
- 80K THE MAIN WALL
- 2.4K A-C, Heat Pumps & Refrigeration
- 34 Biomass
- 391 Carbon Monoxide Awareness
- 2.6K Controls
- 1.3K Domestic Hot Water
- 3.5K Gas Heating
- 98 Geothermal
- 1 Hot Topics with Hot Rod
- 123 Indoor-Air Quality
- 2.2K Oil Heating
- 24 Pipe Deterioration
- 501 Plumbing
- 3.9K Radiant Heating
- 329 Solar
- 11.6K Strictly Steam
- 34 Water Quality
- 45 Job Opportunities
Comments
And a question for you: how did they arrive at the size of the boiler?
The pipes need to be connected in the proper order for function.
Make them change it, I can not emphasize this enough. Otherwise you are paying a "professional" to do it wrong.
That isn't the only piping that is incorrect in my opinion. The tee that brings the 2 risers together is incorrect. Those should tie into the header, then make a 90° if necessary.
EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Boiler Control
Boiler pictures updated 2/21/15
https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10202744301871904.1073741828.1330391881&type=1&l=c34ad6ee78
Building superintendent/caretaker, 7200 sq. ft. historic house museum with dependencies in New England.
Hoffman Equipped System (all original except boiler), Weil-Mclain 580, 2.75 gph Carlin, Vapourstat 0.5 -- 6.0 ounces per square inch
The entire thing is piped wrong and it will not work.
Make them tear it down and start over.
Get ready for the "I've been doing this for X years and have had a problem" response........
NJ Master HVAC Lic.
Mahwah, NJ
Specializing in steam and hydronic heating
Are there reducing bushings in the sides of the boiler?
It may require the full size of outlet, and a larger header.
There are at least 100 stories here of new boiler installs that were wrong and no recourse from contractor without lawyers.
We assume you still have your checkbook closed for final payment.....that may be your only leverage.
Anything less is asking for trouble. Will it work the way it is? Maybe but why pay for a maybe
Show him this:
https://www.peerlessboilers.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/OnePipeSteam.pdf
Show him the installation manual for your boiler.
If he remains ignorant, show him the door.—NBC
> @DanHolohan can you explain *why* this piping will be bad for the system? I’d like to share with the contractor.
That's what you're dealing with inside of that piping.
The headers function is to separate the steam from the water so dry steam goes to the system and any water goes back to the boiler through the equalizer. Keep in mind due to steam velocity it actually has the power to suck water along with it, so the only “tool” that works in the header is gravity. That header needs to be a calm place for the water to settle to the bottom. Any place the steam can go it will and try to take the water with it. So you want height and organization.
Some water will tend to get sucked up into the main takeoff, so that water needs a clear and direct path into the header and to the equalizer. Your second takeoff being after the equalizer will require that water to go back against the steam flow to get there. This could and most likely will cause hammering and poor performance. As much as possible you want everything in a steam system to travel in the same direction and have as little water interactions with the steam as possible. Steam and water are dumb, they do what they do regardless of what a human wants them to do, so work with the medium don’t try and fight it. There are exceptions to this, such as counterflow mains, but they are to be upsized and honestly don’t really relate to a header which is one of the more turbulent parts of the system.
I would be very clear with the installer, do it correctly or don’t get paid. I seriously doubt they are going to give much weight to what you read on the Internet, even though they have a lot to learn and this is the #1 place to learn it. Pros that know send people here for the real story. I wish you the best of luck, we see this kind of stuff regularly around here I have yet to hear of it ending well if it’s left that way.
Hopefully others will be along to add in case I missed a point in my above description.
EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Boiler Control
Boiler pictures updated 2/21/15
https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10202744301871904.1073741828.1330391881&type=1&l=c34ad6ee78
Teflon tape yet no Pipe Dope?
Has that existing insulation been tested for Asbestos? If it is you've got bigger issues!
Is it possible to keep the T and 90 in place but swap the equalizer and far riser?
Flip the T up and attach the riser, flip the 90 down and attach the equalizer. The only issue I can think of is the riser would be on a 45 toward the header instead of straight at it.
I can see it's challenging for the contractor to move the equalizer back very far because a return comes down right there, too.
Any pictures of something like this?
NJ Master HVAC Lic.
Mahwah, NJ
Specializing in steam and hydronic heating
> Thanks all. It makes sense why this would produce wet steam.
>
> Is it possible to keep the T and 90 in place but swap the equalizer and far riser?
>
> Flip the T up and attach the riser, flip the 90 down and attach the equalizer. The only issue I can think of is the riser would be on a 45 toward the header instead of straight at it.
>
> I can see it's challenging for the contractor to move the equalizer back very far because a return comes down right there, too.
>
> Any pictures of something like this?
What challenging? Your paying for him to do it as the manufacture wants. He’s not!
He can do it properly or get someone else!
Flip the T up and attach the riser, flip the 90 down and attach the equalizer. The only issue I can think of is the riser would be on a 45 toward the header instead of straight at it."
Yes, it looks like this should be possible. Turn the present equalizer T upright and connect to the steam main; turn the elbow at the end down and connect that to the equalizer down pipe. You can use 2 45 deg bends on the vertical of the equalizer to bring it back in close to the boiler where it is now connected.
They would all unscrew pretty easy now.
Two years from now when you want to pay someone else to fix this mess, the threads will be start to being "steam welded" and the sawall may be needed.
Here is a Utica a put in last January.
1983(?) Peerless G-561-W-S | 3" drop header, CG400-1090, VXT-24
Once you’ve seen a few dozen pictures on here, you come to expect it and you start visually repiping it in your head.
But at minimum it need to connect in the right order and the header MUST be at the minimum height above the boiler (other reason for a drop header).
This was previously a vapor system I suspect. The header and risers should be 3”. No excuse not to, other than saving a little time and money on larger fittings.
On the positive, they didn’t use copper.
> I just noticed the risers at the ceiling are actually 3”.
>
> This was previously a vapor system I suspect. The header and risers should be 3”. No excuse not to, other than saving a little time and money on larger fittings.
>
> On the positive, they didn’t use copper.
I'd rather properly piped in copper over what I see in those pictures. At least it would work.
That said, before I get attacked I feel copper will perform fine as long as only one riser can be used. This keeps stress off of the boiler from expansion as well as off of the joints.
Take a look on the right hand side of this forum at the categories.
The biggest reason there is 11k posts in the strictly steam section is due to poor piping. You are at the perfect stage to get it done right, dont settle, it will suck when the guy gets offended, but you will be so much happier when its right.
Montpelier Vt