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Nothing to do with heating

Harvey Ramer
Harvey Ramer Member Posts: 2,239
This summer I got called to a regular customer of mine. The complaint was that every time Sparky, the red haired service manager, got mad and went stomping off to the shop in a huff slamming doors as he went, the breaker would trip off the lights in the parts room. After several hours of tracing buried wires and poking my video scope into wall cavities, I found this buried in the wall.



It was resting directly on the door header which is why it tripped when the door slammed.

Breakers trip for a reason.

SWEIRobert O'Brienkcoppwcs5050Zman

Comments

  • DanHolohan
    DanHolohan Member, Moderator, Administrator Posts: 16,513
    Which is why you will always be worth hiring.
    Retired and loving it.
    Tinman
  • Harvey Ramer
    Harvey Ramer Member Posts: 2,239
    Thanks for the nice words Dan.
    TinmanZman
  • Abracadabra
    Abracadabra Member Posts: 1,948
    Wow... just wow....

    Was the door (and header) a later addition? Just wondering why in the world they'd do that.
    Tinman
  • Gordy
    Gordy Member Posts: 9,546
    edited October 2015
    Nice detective work Harvey. Did the conduit fall down, or what? The store must have run out of conduit, and or junction boxes.
    Harvey RamerZman
  • Harvey Ramer
    Harvey Ramer Member Posts: 2,239
    It's been like that for 40 years I suppose. So I have no idea who was thinking what. Must have been part timers or summer help that did it.

    Pretty scary stuff.
  • KC_Jones
    KC_Jones Member Posts: 5,722
    I see and here this stuff then I wonder, how bad does it have to be to start an electrical fire? It's scary.
    2014 Weil Mclain EG-40
    EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Boiler Control
    Boiler pictures updated 2/21/15
  • Harvey Ramer
    Harvey Ramer Member Posts: 2,239
    Well, a spark won't usually ignite standard building materials unless it is something highly volatile. Typically, it will be the heat. For example, a wood like pine has a spontaneous combustion temp of around 575 degrees. Loose connections causing overheating are more often than not the catalyst for fires, rather than dead shorts.
  • KC_Jones
    KC_Jones Member Posts: 5,722
    I have a family member that lost a house to an electrical fire, it's actually crazy how it can happen. His was due to an error made 10 years earlier when the house was built. Someone nicked a 220 line with a staple just enough to cause a weak point. Expansion and contraction over the years from the heat in the wire due to load made it worse and worse. One day when no one was home it finally ignited the main beam in the basement. Burned the house completely out when no one was home....small miracles.
    2014 Weil Mclain EG-40
    EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Boiler Control
    Boiler pictures updated 2/21/15
  • ratio
    ratio Member Posts: 3,616
    I was never a fan of arc-fault breakers, but I saw first hand the kind of problem they find. Had to have been a manufacturing flaw in the insulation on a piece of MC, arced over just enough to char the 2x over the course of the weekend. No staple within several feet in any direction. No damage to the cladding save for a tiny hole melted in it, about the size of the head of a pin. A tiny pit in the copper, had to have been the hot wire, took me five minutes to find it looking over the piece I cut out, about two feet long.
  • Jamie Hall
    Jamie Hall Member Posts: 23,170
    I'd love to have arc fault breakers in this place. Anyone want to fund the conversion? (at least I have fuses which can only be replace with the correct size...). A lot of the fixture wiring is fabric over rubber insulation, and getting on for a century old. I have to -- and do -- keep an eye on it, and check the fixtures for faults from time to time.

    Harvey's right, though -- it's the heat, not an arc (unless it's a real big one -- which will usually blow a fuse), that usually causes the damage. There are any number of houses which still have aluminium wiring; they can overheat remarkably easily if the right sort of connectors aren't used.
    Br. Jamie, osb
    Building superintendent/caretaker, 7200 sq. ft. historic house museum with dependencies in New England
  • SlamDunk
    SlamDunk Member Posts: 1,571
    My company gives me access to tools I couldn't afford on my own. Every year, I thermal scan every outlet, conduit, junction box and wall. Not because I like to play with toys but because I'm paranoid for just the reason KC_Jones mentioned.

    My favorite pizza joint had to shut down for a week because of an electrical fire to wires outside their brick and stucco building that have been untouched for years. Poof!
  • KC_Jones
    KC_Jones Member Posts: 5,722
    My neighbor has standard romex run on the exterior of their house for some circuit someone wanted to add years ago. The sun is destroying that insulation and I am pretty sure it's only a matter of time before something happens. It's a brick house so fire (hopefully) isn't a concern. I wanted to touch the wire once, but I seriously think the insulation would just fall off at this point. People do strange things with electricity. Oh and I should add it's on an alley where people walk and at least 20' of the wire is well within reach of even children.
    2014 Weil Mclain EG-40
    EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Boiler Control
    Boiler pictures updated 2/21/15