"Relatives"???

EBEBRATT-Ed

This guy isn't my relative but is my Girl Friends relative. So, I've got sucked into looking at his steamer ….again. I hate doing anything for this guy because it's like pulling teeth to get money out of him even for parts.

46 year old Dunkirk boiler oil fired Beckett AF with a tankless. In the past 8 years or so I have replaced the gauge glass and gg valves 1 trip, cleaned out a plugged pigtail 1 trip, replace the pressure control 1 trip and he tried to replace the cad cell control himself after he screwed up the wiring, I had to go fix that.

Now his house is falling apart. They fix nothing unless it breaks completely. They had mold issues because the roof leaked so bad, but they waited 10 years too late to fix that.

It's actually a rugged little boiler and if it had any maintenance, it would probably run forever but like many he buys oil from the cheapest place in town with no service dept. I have bitched him out for that already.

So you get the idea. They are constantly going on trips to FLA, cruises etc they both work so they got some money coming in, have 2 new cars and a huge flat screen TV…..you got the picture?

got a 550 underground tank and the boiler piping is all wrong, no header and no Hartford but the thing runs as quiet as a mouse and heats well…..go figure. Piping all covered in asbestos

Back when I was actually working, I said "lets rip this out and go to gas your going to have to deal with the oil tank someday, it will cost more the longer you wait". He said " the gas is in the street, but my wife is scared of gas.

Get this, when she needs gas put in her car, she has him take it to the gas station and fill it she won't do it.

So now it's Christmas and the outdoor temp here is 9 degrees. The wife has cats (which I am allergic to and can't stand) so they went to FLA…again for Xmas and to go on a cruise for their 40th anniversary. She has a woman that goes over to feed the cats and checks the boiler.

Today there calling me because there is no heat and the boiler is flooded. T stat set at 70 but the house was 48. The cat survived.

I never had this issue before. I checked the hand valve that feeds the boiler thinking the cat lady over filled it or didn't close the globe valve tight, but it was shut tight.

So I said well either the tankless coil has a hole in it or the hand valve is leaking by. So I started draining. There was so much water in the system the burner was off on pressure.

No place to drain water in the basement so I lugged 25 gallons up the cellar stairs before the water showed up in the sight glass. But the sight glass filled up fast, I drained again, and it filled up fast, I drained it again and it filled some but started to slow down. So, now I am scratching my head.

So the burner came on when the pressure dropped. Since they are not home anyhow, I valved off the tankless. Watched it run for a while and left.

Then after I got home and was trying to get to sleep I figured part of it out.

I suspect the two returns that drop down and ty together before going in the boiler are filled with sludge. When I drained the boiler to the sight glass level, and it refilled a couple of times it was water in the over filled returns seeping through the sludge. The returns are overhead.

But that does not explain the original flooding. Have to go back tomorrow and check. If it is gaining water the hand valve is leaking by because I shut the tankless off.

If it's the tankless is the issue I will suggest abandoning it, I am sure the bolts will never come out and that's not a winter job on a 46 yo boiler. Cap the tankless pipes and put in an electric water heater to get by till summer……..But summer of what year??

I am not going to do a tankless coil, a water heater or the boiler…..I'm done.

Sorry for the rant but I couldn't sleep.

Mad Dog_2

I feel ya Ed! I know the kind..run everything to failure...Pleasure first...They're extremely lucky to have you, but Stop feeling obligated. I had to tell my super handy father in law's (80) neighbors to "PLEASE CALL SOMEONE ELSE...HE'S RETIRED MANY YEARS NOW!"

Opa just can't say no himself and works for FREE for neighbors and most took full advantage of him. Don't feel funny..time they put some Whoopie $$$ in to the important stuff, like Their heat....especially in the winter! (Ed Holohan). Mad Dog

LRCCBJ

Sorry for the rant but I couldn't sleep.

I feel for you. Similar circumstance with an ex.

Repeat after me:

No, sorry, I'm unable to help you with that.

SlamDunk

I think we have all been there to some degree. Points in Heaven for you!.

I think it has been often said here, "the warranty on free work never ends".

hot_rod

The Christmas spirit, atta boy!

Intplm.

Uhhg!

Yup. You got the thing diagnosed. Now it's up to them to act on their own behalf.

I had a few similar situations and finally had to tell them that I'm not in the business any longer and do not have the resources to help.

I'll never forget what one of my Voc. ed instructors said some 45+ years ago.

He said the worst people to work for are our friends and relatives. It's not always true but it is in this situation.

Ed… you're a damn good man to help out as much as you have. Add some self-preservation in for good measure.

CoachBoilermaker

T'Stat set for 70 while they're away for weeks ????????

How did they know about flood/cold if they are away?

A huge flat screen TV is $600

PC7060

https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1828943#Comment_1828943

I provide a “driveway” warranty that expires when I leave. Also learned to include the disclaimer I borrowed from CX at johnbridge tile site.
“My opinion; worth price charged.”

HVACNUT

You're a better man than me. I live on a dead end street, 18 houses. Within a year of moving in I was doing free service for 7 houses for oil heat and AC. I would work in hints about getting a service agreement, but it always fell on deaf ears. They drive past me every day and see I'm my own landscaper, gardner, car washer, appliance installer, etc. I've got my own problems to deal with. My neighbor directly across the street runs out of oil constantly, and would call or text with questions, when he wanted action from me. I finally said it takes all my energy to do what I need to do for me and my family, anything left over goes to having to wake up the next day and do it all over again. I didn't mind the first 3 or 4 times, but I can't be responsible for someone else's lack of responsibility. Kudos to you, Ed, for your patience and fortitude.

Larry Weingarten

Hi @EBEBRATT-Ed , There is a Garrett Gunderson, who gives people one of two titles. They are either producers or consumers. You clearly are a producer. Need I say more? 😉

Yours, Larry

EBEBRATT-Ed

Thanks for all the great comments.

My GF went over this morning and the water level was about 1/4" low in the glass. Being 48 in the house last night and 9 outside degrees here it probably ran hard most of the night and I am sure they probably got some vents/packings wisping. I know he adds water every few days when it's cold so the this thing is on borrowed time.

Left the tankless coil valved off don't know it that is leaking by or the cat lady over filled it???? He can deal with it when he gets home . I am out.

@Maddog "stop feeling obligated" TRUTH but after 46 years it's tough to let go, but this is the last straw.

@LRCCBJ LOL good advice

@SlamDunk Yes we all have been there, I could use some points!!

@hot_rod Christmass spirit? More like Ebenezer Scrouge LOL!!

@Intplm. Yes I heard the same admonishment in school 52 years ago!!! Also No lawyers, Drs., friends or relatives. The better the deal you give them the harder you get screwed

@CoachBoilermaker Cat lady called/texted the homeowner and they texted from the ship to my GF. T stat set 70, gotta take care of the cats!!

@PC7060 No warranty!!! In fact I was never there LOL

@HVACNUT Yeah, Thankfully I have gotten away from most everything

Thanks for all the replies, much appreciated

Hope everyone has a Merry Christmas.

EBEBRATT-Ed

Just for closure, I sent them a long text this morning explaining what I thought.

The reply was "OK, Thanks"

I already told my GF "Next time they call, Don't hand me the phone" not going.

ChrisJ

"Huge flat screen tv"

24 years ago that meant something.

Now it can mean as little as $150.

 He said " the gas is in the street, but my wife is scared of gas.

Get this, when she needs gas put in her car, she has him take it to the gas station and fill it she won't do it.

Oh good grief………….. Yeah, Run away. You don't need that kind of stuff in your life.

EdTheHeaterMan

After looking at this, I feel compelled to offer this information for the upcoming holiday.

@EBEBRATT-Ed said: This guy isn't my relative but is my Girl Friends relative.

…might be time for a new girlfriend. 🤣

EBEBRATT-Ed

@EdTheHeaterMan

No, can't do that we have been together 16 years. But I am done with her brother-in-law and sister. They have all kinds of money to spend on trips they go to FLA about 6 times a year (daughter is there). But their house is falling apart, and they have a swimming pool.

Also, the only time we hear from them is when they need something. It's a one-way street with them. Now I'm getting all cranked up thinking about it again.

Sad thing is the old Dunkirk is 46 years old and still going. It probably could be cleaned up and fixed up. If it was my own, I would keep it but I am not getting involved. They don't listen.

So I figure anyone else goes in their it will be a new boiler, indirect and new indoor oil tank and remediate the asbestos. Remove the old 550-gallon underground tank. Should be good for 20k probably a lot more. That should cut down on the FLA vacations. I don't know the EDR but the smallest steamer will do it.

SlamDunk

Just tell 'em you hurt your back. Back pain can take weeks or months to resolve.

If they dont live in the neighborhood, the next time they call, your gf needs to say "he is at the doctors' getting back x-rays". Should be easy to pull off without hurting feelings.

"Ok Thanks" is weak.

neilc

count your hours and bill em current rate, tape the invoice to the tv, or the fridge and take the tv, superbowl is coming,

EBEBRATT-Ed

@SlamDunk it is weak. I don't want my a__K______ but he is ridiculous.

@Larry Weingarten never thought I was the best. There are plenty that can run circles around me. Worked hard at it though….maybe too hard that's why I am a mess now. Can't be mistaken for a producer now.

Larry Weingarten

Hi @EBEBRATT-Ed , You're clearly a producer. Over sixteen thousand posts here, helping people out of trouble. Anything we all can do for you? … I'm serious. This is your community. 😇

Yours, Larry

EBEBRATT-Ed

@Larry Weingarten

Thanks Larry appreciate that. Yeah, just turn father time back a few clicks LOL😊😊😊😊

ratio

I only do work for family & friends now, mostly at-cost or less. I found that once I quit worrying about making money on it, I'm not nearly so p!ssed about doing it—but I don't (yet!) have much mobility issues.

It's coming, though.

Still, I do like the feeling of cashing checks that someone else wrote.

Larry Weingarten

Hi @EBEBRATT-Ed , No problem! Here's the book you want. Very much science based. If you like, I'll send you a copy. 😊

IMG_0977.pdf

Yours, Larry

HVACNUT

So driving home last night I got 4 texts. When I got home I saw it was from a guy I haven't seen in at least 15 years. Last I knew, he had an oil fired boiler. Turns out it was 2 Mitco conversion burners ago. Now he bought a Carlin EZ Gas and can't get it running. Phone calls, texts, videos. First Lockout "BV open". He still has the oil draft regulator. 🤪 Jump out BV.

Next it goes through the full cycle with no ignition. Throttle down air, ignition but not stable and goes out. He says he drilled the orifice for 100K input but mentioned 1/8th. I check the chart and 1/8 is good for 50-75K propane. He has nat gas. I say drill to 7/32 and set the appropriate air. He calls back a half hour later and his family has heat for Christmas. I'm not happy at all with myself for giving advice on starting a burner when I know it's not 100% safe. Of course I told him he needs to install new flue pipe with a double acting draft regulator and spill switch, and have a combustion test done ASAP. He replied with, "So I can adjust the BTU input by turning the screw on the gas valve, right? Do I turn it CW or CCW?" I said, "I gotta go."

I'm not trying to "one up" you @EBEBRATT-Ed , just saying you're not alone. Have great Holiday!

EBEBRATT-Ed

@Larry Weingarten

I will pick up that book TY!!

@HVACNUT 15 years. It's like a life sentence working in this business.

There was a guy that was a really good customer when I worked at the oil company. He was about 35 miles out of town, but he gave us a lot of work. Always took care of his equipment. He was tough when he called, he wanted someone immediately. On the other hand, when you sent him a bill you would get the check in a couple of days.

When the oil company closed down, I had my own business and continued working for him. Then after a few years I started working for someone else and lost touch with that customer. I was mostly in the office estimating and running jobs.

Saw in the newspaper that he passed on. About a year later I came home from work and my wife said a guy was calling for me and insisted on talking with me. Didn't recognize the name but he worked for the customer that had passed on. He said we got burner trouble. At this point it was about 8 years since I had worked for them.

I said "who has been working on your burners, he said no one. Walter (customer that had passed) told me don't let anyone but Ed touch these burners". So I went out there one Saturday and fixed up both burners that were filthy after 8 years. Then I hooked him up with someone to take over the service. Turns out they had my name and phone # written on the boiler room wall!!

EBEBRATT-Ed

But back to the "brother-in-law". I forgot about this one.

He called one cold night while I was asleep. 11:30pm. He had gone down to check the boiler and decided to blow down the LWCO and the valve was so rotted it broke off.

He goes "I need heat it's cold out" I said "I am not coming over" get some rags and a screwdriver and pound the rags into the tapping in the LWCO and I will be over tomorrow after work. I said fill the boiler up it may drip a little and turn your stat up and heat the house. Don't leave the basement while it is running. Once the house is heated shut the burner off at the switch and go to bed. Tomorrow get up early and do it again before you go to work. He insisted I come over. I said no and hung up.

The LWCO was and old Watts or something. It's like a MM #767?? the one with the 2 1/2" IPS nipple coming out of the boiler into the side of the LWCO.

So it had a 1" tapping for the blowdown with a 1 x 3/4 CI bushing in it that broke off flush. No fun laying on my back with a Sawzall and a hammer and a chisel trying to pick the bushing out with water and muck dripping on you. You know how bushings are they just chip away in little pieces. But I got it out and fixed him up. Maybe I got a thanks out of it.

EBEBRATT-Ed

Watts.pdf

RTW

In response to: "Cat lady called/texted the homeowner and they texted from the ship to my GF. T stat set 70, gotta take care of the cats!!"

In my view, and Im a cat person, putting the stat at 70 makes about as much sense as keeping the lights on for cats - smh

Regards,

RTW

GroundUp

Luckily I have not had any big issues with this sort of thing, but I do have a cousin who recently purchased his first home and his father (my uncle, who is a notorious cheapskate) asked me to come by and look the boiler over. I agreed and said I'd get over there next time I was in town, as it wasn't urgent. After day 2, he was mad that I hadn't been there yet. Day 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9 and 10 he called every morning asking if I was coming today, despite telling him every time I'd call when I was heading into town or I can charge him for a service call. Finally got there and found the poor thing with a bad thermostat, rattling circ, and literally a whole cat inside the burner assembly that had been there for quite some time. I cleaned it out and fired it up, CO was something like 8000 (yes, thousand) PPM so I adjusted that back down and got it ready to go which was about a 4 hour ordeal. I mentioned the rattling circ and bad stat, he told me a week later to go ahead and fix it so I replaced both next time I was in town, and got a "great, thanks". Ummm, sorry but this was not a charity thing. I will eat the cleaning and adjustment just as a housewarming (pun intended) gift, but I will not be eating the $200 in parts and would prefer not to eat that hour of labor either. I got my parts paid for, but very begrudgingly. Noted for next time, I suppose!

Mad Dog_2

My Greek Grandma in Law used to pay me in cookies & Baclava.....Mad Dog

SlamDunk

https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1829258#Comment_1829258

Waaaaaaay better than an "OK Thanks" text! I can feel the love in that sentence way over here.