Spray foam pipe insulation

leaking

has anyone tried spray foam insulation. On steam ? Not the small cans at box stores but larger spray units . Chris L. 10 years ago here on the wall said he used it a bit and after 3 years it was fine . It would be a much cheaper way to really insulate vs proper pipe insulation . There are high temp types . I don’t care how it looks it’s storage areas , it can be trimmed and covered. Or painted . I’m looking at 3000 $ for real pipe insulation just material of 1.5” . It’s a big basement. There are high temp foams . It looks like a very good idea to get a higher R value for relatively cheap .

leaking

Handi Foam , one product they have has 240f as acceptable. I did not look at their other products just what HD has . I don’t care about looks. It can be trimmed quickly , covered or painted . I’m looking to not go broke doing this and it would be a fast job .

leaking

it could really seal up old asbestos easily .

Waher

You don’t want that foam off gassing inside a dwelling. Fiberglass is the standard for many good reasons even though it’s a pain to work with and clean up the fibers.

There’s a high cost to being cheap. Do the job properly or you will regret it.

PC7060

why 1.5” insulation? 1” is probably sufficient.
I think you’ll find the foam hard to install in a practical manner and just as expensive in long run run.

leaking

right you ventilate with outside air for 48hrs or more .

Why fiberglass ? I’ve sprayed foam , super fast super easy . Not hard to control . 1/10th the price ,

ChrisJ

You don't need a higher R value than 1" fiberglass under most conditions.

If you do decide to use spray foam, please share pictures.

leaking

I’m hoping to find someone who has done this to share his thoughts . I’m sure there are drawbacks I do not know .
thank you

ethicalpaul

our thoughts were to use 1” fiberglass if I recall correctly 😄

Jamie Hall

Unprotected spray foam is a serious fire hazard, and most codes do not permit its use in an occupied space without fire resistant cladding. Some formulations not only burn well (they are excellent high temperature fuels) but also emit very toxic fumes in the process.

There is a difference between "inexpensive" and "cheap".

PC7060

https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1827395#Comment_1827395

I’m struggling to visualize an effective way to spray hung pipe, it that the application?

Or wall mounted which I could see spray foam being an effective solution proved it was rated for the temperature.

ChrisJ

https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1827415#Comment_1827415

I'd think you need to build a form around the pipe, no?

RTW

IN my view, use spray foam insulation at your own risk - formaldehyde is a common ingredient in foam insulation proven to be a carcinogen that emits "toxic fumes" over time, just sayin - not to mention a fire hazard previously mentioned

No health issues with fiberglass, but you can take the "cheap way out" with foam if you like

As to any existing asbestos covered pipes, its common to cover them with duck tape and leave them be

Regards,

RTW

hot_rod

the foam that comes out of a spray gun is what you want, like the insulators spray overhead. That gets applied on any plane.

Tiger Foam is one brand of a spray kit, looks like a barbecue tank, comes with a hose and spray gun.

. I'd check with the manufacturer about a specific application like that. Temperature, outgassing, flame spread, etc.

leaking

thank you hot rod and everyone else . Not even running numbers it looks to be 75% or more cheaper for me to do the job and no itch .

Jamie Hall

https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1827713#Comment_1827713

Yep. It's cheaper to use foam. Just don't complain to us if you can't sell the house (no mortgage) because exposed foam won't pass inspection by any competent authority.

delcrossv

https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1827728#Comment_1827728

If I saw foam on pipes it'd be a walkaway for me.

leaking

oh bs you cover it , you paint it. And show me the code . The new stuff that costs 3-400$ a box has a good fire rating . Why not say , oh you can’t sell your house with asbestos !! Pay us 20,000$ to fix it ! how about some more bs .

delcrossv

@EdTheHeaterMan still got that picture of spray foam on piping?

Found it.

You wanna be the guy who has to work on this?

Kaos

Common misconception that a basement is not part of your conditioned space. It is near impossible to build in such a way as to truly sperate the two, never mind with what you see in a typical setting with maybe some batts in the ceiling. This means any heat in your basement goes to heating the rest of the house.

If you want to actually save energy, air seal the basement. Replacing the old leaky single panes and air sealing the rim joist was night and day in terms of temperature and comfort. Much better use of your money and time.

Don't know about steam but with hot water, unless you need it to even out distribution, don't bother insulating as it won't save you fuel. Enjoy the warmer basement and the indirectly heated floor for the main level. With hot water heat, when I had the old pipe insulation remediated, left the pipes bare. Turned the basement into a much more pleasant place to work.

P.S. Most firefighters consider spray foam liquid gasoline. Something to keep in mind.

ChrisJ

https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1827789#Comment_1827789

Yeah...

That's what I pictured.

I wanted to LOL your post but really it needs a scream reaction.

PC7060

https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1827788#Comment_1827788

what are you planning to use to cover it. Foam needs to be covered with approved 15 minute fire barrier.
Fiberglass insulate is in range of $3-6 for 3’ section depending on size. My go to source is: http://www.buyinsulationproductstore.com/

leaking

common Ed, I will use a Pro Product , I’m a pro painter . I don’t do crap like that . 😀

leaking

leaking

Jamie and folks , have you ever tried to burn Polyisocyanurate foam ? It won’t burn with a cigarette lighter . Oh it’s the HD foil faced foam board .

I’ve only started to research pro foam packs . Handi Foam , at HD ,a 40 lb box sells for 400.00$ ! It meets building code requirements, Class 1(A) . That’s what Brick, gypsum , etc etc receive for fire rating !!

Off gas? Think carpets , furniture, , cabinets , tv, etc etc etc . Most everything sold now days has plastics that off gas nasty stuff . especially cheap imported stuff .

Won’t pass code ? Can’t sell ? Show me the code . A problem arises ? Cover it, paint it . Simple solutions . Remember when everyone said you had to remove Asbestos ! Many did stupidly at extremely exorbitant prices . But now it’s ok to simply “encapsulate “ it . Paint with the right product .

Stop being so negative. This product as I can see is Superior in performance, at a much much cheaper cost . Nobody has money to throw away . Owning apartments is tough enough. Thanks all, Merry Christmas 🎉🎉🥃🍺🎅🏼🧑🏻‍🎄🤶🏼

leaking

I forgot photos

RTW

To follow -up on the sound advice from others to OP, a quote from Forest Gump comes to mind:

Forrest Gump Best Quotes – ‘Stupid is as stupid does.’

Regards,

RTW

ethicalpaul

use that foam on your foundation sill areas instead

yellowdog

As a professional painter, you definitely know more than the steam experts that are trying to help you and that you asked the advice of, so I would go ahead and spray foam the heck out of all your piping and sit back and relax with a smirk on your face as you know you have outsmarted everyone here.

Grallert

I'm curious to see the results. Seems like it will work. My only worry would be how it looks to be honest. The finished appearance is very important as it is a sign of a thoughtful professional. I've been in cellars where the HO has covered up all the mechanicals making it extremely hard to trace wires and pipes. As a fire fighter I know there's nothing in a modern that won't kill you when it burns and everything burns. As you mentioned, furniture carpets finishes etc. That's what SCBA is for. Like I said I'd worry about the appearance.

RTW

Go ahead and spray as some have suggested

Regards,

RTW

leaking

RTW, What you say is stupid .

An idea to get it smooth fast ( it doesn’t cure or look like the crap in a small can). Is take a 16” auto body bondo Cheese Grater - coarse, and spend an hour or two a room . It’s soft . I think it would be a fast way to get decent results. If you want smoother , go to a finer Cheese Grater . Spray or roll it with a fire code paint or cover . That would be quick also . Staple then glue seams . I have not talked to the company yet, today will to get help and sq ft cost. What I read is the nozzle clogges shut fast . So its planning is needed . And maybe extra nozzles. I plan on using the 440$ box all at once . I have a 12 unit about 160’x 40’ , a basement full of pipes . I’m only doing 25-30% , but the 440$ box should get me 2” R 13-14, with zero seam leakage, like you get with Fiberglass .
Oh has anybody heard of cheap foreign carpet off gassing so bad Fumes can be seen rising from the carpet when the sun hits it , sickening families ? Or the known hazards most all new cabinets , counter tops , furniture, electronics, toys etc etc etc emit? This is unregulated poison most people are not aware of. So you paint or cover the foam ! What I see is a better cheaper job with better results. The negative can be remedied. Merry Christmas y’all 🍺🎉🥃🧑🏻‍🎄

SlamDunk

Foam lacks craftsmanship. It isn't good practice because it isn't practiced. Anyone who looks at it would know it was a DIY gone wrong but hey, it is your house, your system, do what makes you happy and show us photos when you are done! You might surprise us but really, look at that photo above. That is your benchmark.

ChrisJ

Calling someone stupid isn't necessary or helpful.

But I am genuinely curious to see pictures of the final results.

HeatingHelp.com

Just a reminder to @RTW and everyone here to please be respectful as it is in the site rules. Thanks.

Jamie Hall

Grenfell Tower Block

DCContrarian

"It isn't good practice because it isn't practiced."

By that logic we'd never get anything new. Plumbing would all still be lead.

DCContrarian

https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1827848#Comment_1827848

This is commonly done and is considered a best practice.

For those concerned about fire risk and off gassing, how is it any different?

ethicalpaul

I used the Dow product to do my sills and didn’t have any trouble with clogging. That kit came with several nozzles and I used one.

You just have to keep the foam moving with no long stops.

If you plan your route you won’t need to stop.

I love an interesting, innovative use or misuse of tools and materials…

But I again strongly advise against this. It’s the wrong tool for the job.

DCContrarian

With the advent of air to water heat pumps residential hydronics used for cooling is becoming more common. Insulation of the piping becomes more challenging, because it's not just for efficiency but to keep the pipes from sweating. Fiberglass is useless for that, as the insulation layer needs to be air tight. For straight sections of pipe neoprene is good, but for irregular fittings it seems like spray foam is the best choice.

The big issue is it makes future service difficult as it conceals what's underneath and it needs to be chiseled off.

Intplm.

You would probably be using the high-temperature fire block or equivalent spray foam. This might be laborious and very messy.

I suppose you could build some pink insulating foam board around the pipes and spray the foam in. Tough call/your call. If the pipes are in a joist, using the foam board could work by attaching the foam board to the joists and then spraying it into that cavity. Most often the spray foam does not need the foam board, but it might be an option for your goal.